I don't know what else to do to get these guys to open up their eyes on this stuff. I'm pretty sick and tired of getting the short end of the stick though with these patches. They nerfed the crap out of us and still haven't figured it out that it was a huge mistake.

Im starting to want to just stay out of this because the Merc community seems to be fighting amongst themselves lately...Me included. There seems to be two opposing factions one asking for changes, and the others saying Merc performs well...Not sure why anyone playing an AC would be opposed to a few tweaks to up Mercs ability to escape, and kite....

 

But it would seem there are Mercs that are inadvertantly opposing it by pointing out how well, and efficient they can play the AC in basically every thread requesting utility/Escape mechanic buffs...Im not sure if their intent is to try and block these requests from being validated...Or if they are just pointing out there own success on the AC.

 

Mercs can top the dmg charts no doubt...thats not what the requests for utility and escape ability is about.

 

SO its going to be a tough road I think.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Soljin

Signed.

 

I don't play a merc/commando but you guys are clearly at the bottom of the foodchain (along with squishy sage/sorcs). Yeah some truly amazing players can do well, but frankly an exceptional commando is *still* going to lose to an exceptional player of the other classes. DPS seems fine if only you could survive long enough to dish it out - you definitely need more defense and a buff (not nerf like with the stockstrike changes!) to defensive utility skills.

You should clarify whether you are talking about pve or pvp.

Pve wise Mercs/Commandos are perfectly viable, als long as the class is in the hands of a capable player.

PVE is fine.

 

PVP is a joke.

 

I slaughter merc's in pvp with out exception on any of my other toons, and have stopped playing my merc in PVP altogether. My once proud merc now servers as a humble weapons maker.

 

No survivability in melee and everyone knows it. So Merc's are free kills.

 

Range is not a defense.

PVE is fine.

 

PVP is a joke.

 

I slaughter merc's in pvp with out exception on any of my other toons, and have stopped playing my merc in PVP altogether. My once proud merc now servers as a humble weapons maker.

 

No survivability in melee and everyone knows it. So Merc's are free kills.

 

Range is not a defense.

 

As playing a sniper as my main, I gotta say... How about start using that heavy armour and try moving around a bit, and then come complain about your class again if needed. And why on earth would you try to go and melee with a Merc in the first place? It's a ranged class, not a melee class.

 

...And yes the range is a defence if you can use the line of sight to your benefit and move. Mercs can also run and gun easily dealing a motherlode of damage while doing so.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Beansoup

I think you have it all wrong. There is nothing wrong with merc dps and if they are left alone can do tons of damage. You also need to realize that there is no 1v1 pvp, it is all team based. Not every class needs to be self sustaining but rather work as a team to accomplish goals. The problem is surviving and escaping. If a merc gets caught in a situation where they don't have team support they are pretty much as good as dead. I have played every class up to 50 and like you, I would love to see them get a small boost of some sort. I like playing arsenal but its based on gaining stacks and casting tracer missle. Inquisitors/Consulars get a sprint, bubble, whirlwind, a shock and a knockback and sins/shadows get a vanish while sorc/sage get slows and roots. Warrior/Knights get leaps (charge and possibly obliterate) that can teleport them from danger, a choke/statis that incapacitates, aoe cc and a shield. Marauders get a temp vanish, 99% damage reduction, damage reduction/reflect. Jugs/guardians get force push granting an extra leap and even another leap to a friendly target as well as some hp stuff. This is getting boring to write about but agent and smuggs have knockdowns, flashbangs, stuns, knockbacks, roots, vanish or cant be interrupted and hunkerdown. When it comes to mercs, what do they have? They have a shield, a knockback, and a stun. They get to wear heavy armor but they dont get to interrupt casts. Is this all that superior weapons and armory has to offer? No quick escape... So I do see you point as to having a little more survivabiliy but like I said this is a team game and if you get heals and/or protection it shouldn't be too bad.

Arsenal merc just needs something like a blink. The dmg is fine if we had something like a blink. Another option would be a passive that doesn't allow us to be leapt to if the guy trying to leap to us is over 20m away. I like the 2nd option a lot since merc is one of the few classes that requires situational awareness when pugging and that would go along with that.

 

Our dmg is fine its just we can be shut down too easy and we need some tool for matches besides huttball. In a premade we rock though. We also rock most of the time if you position well even if you are in a pug. It is just we can be shut down easy when pugging.

 

Now the arsenal mercs saying we are totally fine are the ones that premade a lot and/or fight crappy pugs a lot. Merc is OMG easy when I premade and does huge huge dmg. This is also why merc is the most OP of the sub 50 classes (except for 49 twink op of course).

As playing a sniper as my main, I gotta say... How about start using that heavy armour and try moving around a bit, and then come complain about your class again if needed.

Coming from the class that's immune to leaps and pulls while in cover. Gotcha.

And why on earth would you try to go and melee with a Merc in the first place? It's a ranged class, not a melee class.

Melee runs to us. We don't run to them.

 

Mercs can also run and gun easily dealing a motherlode of damage while doing so.

PT spec (assault for troopers) maybe. If you want to spec down that tree then you've chose the wrong AC. Edited September 25, 2012 by Couver

PT spec (assault for troopers) maybe. If you want to spec down that tree then you've chose the wrong AC.

 

The shared tree for Commandos doesn't provide much option for run-and-gun gameplay. All you get is Incendiary Round (not an effective spam cast since it's got marginal frontload and lasts 18 seconds), Assault Plastique (15 sec CD), HiB (15 sec CD unless you're using Charged Bolts and Full Auto), and Hammer Shot (basic attack = marginal damage at best). A majority of Assault's damage is dependent on Charged Bolts and Full Auto. At best, you could use Tech Override to instacast a Charged Bolts while you're running, but that's one cast every 2 minutes. In general, the only abilities that a Commando can use on the move are on 15 sec use cycles, which hurts them considering those are also supposed to be kept on CD; unless you're jumped right when you're about to reach the restart of that 15 sec cycle, a Commando can only really lay down with its basic attack.

 

The primary problem with Commandos and Mercs in PvP is that they're functionally a turret class (stand and hardcast) without any of the mechanical advantages given to turret classes to offset the designed lack of effective mobility (sages get a shield, superior control, and burst mobility; GSs get interrupt/pushback immunity and a load of various survivability CDs). In PvE, the lack of mobility doesn't really hurt them since it's not like they ever really have to care about running away from stuff because everything should be attacking the tank. In PvP, it's a major concern because, with the massive prevalence of melee gap closers, it means that the "range as defense" isn't particularly effective. You need to have something else to offset the fact that you are forced to stand in order to deliver.

 

As such, the only real buffs needed are buffs specifically designed to offset the need to stand still to deal damage. I've got 4 basic suggestions to make up for this purpose:

 

1. A passive buff that makes you immune to interrupts when you've standing still for a period of time (4 seconds or so). This could be make into a passive trait of Commandos and Mercs as a whole and would be designed to be countered by other classes' KBs and CC effects (have the buff constantly apply and only take effect when you've got 4 stacks and have CC or movement of any kind remove all stacks).

 

2. A talent that allows you to cast Grav Round and Charged Bolts while moving (Commando healers already get access to a load of heals that they can use while moving). Essentially, the only thing that Commandos would be forced to stand still and cast would be Full Auto (which is still a major part of their attack priorities, so they would still want to stand still to do as much damage as possible; the change would simply allow them to use their primary filler on the move without making it purely instant). They wouldn't need the interrupt immunity because they're not forced to stand still to be effective (they still need to stand still to be optimally effective, however).

 

3. A reduction, whether through talent or baseline change, to the CD of Tech Override, such that it is reduced to roughly 20-30 seconds. This is largely a different way to implement the previous suggestion in a more programmatically simple manner as much while making it more useful for healers (insta-casting MP for burst healing and being able to cast AMP/MP on the move but not constantly). It would still only allow Commandos to be mobile for short periods of time, but it's still something to offset the need to stand still while getting beat on.

 

4. A revamp of Tech Override that causes it to provide multiple stacks of the existing buff. This could potentially be combined with a partial reduction in its CD to make the ability overall more useful. Tech Override really is the worst of the level 46 abilities; turning a single hardcast into an instacast is nowhere near worth a 2 minute CD, especially since it doesn't even make the hardcast more effective or efficient (like Presence of Mind and Force Strike do). A lot of the problems with Commandos could be fixed by making Tech Override something worthwhile.

The shared tree for Commandos doesn't provide much option for run-and-gun gameplay. All you get is Incendiary Round (not an effective spam cast since it's got marginal frontload and lasts 18 seconds), Assault Plastique (15 sec CD), HiB (15 sec CD unless you're using Charged Bolts and Full Auto), and Hammer Shot (basic attack = marginal damage at best). A majority of Assault's damage is dependent on Charged Bolts and Full Auto. At best, you could use Tech Override to instacast a Charged Bolts while you're running, but that's one cast every 2 minutes. In general, the only abilities that a Commando can use on the move are on 15 sec use cycles, which hurts them considering those are also supposed to be kept on CD; unless you're jumped right when you're about to reach the restart of that 15 sec cycle, a Commando can only really lay down with its basic attack.

Vanguard skillset as a whole better compliments thwe assault tree. The ability to have a 90% armor pen rate on HiB and resetting it with stockstrike/plasma cell. granted, I know the proc rate was increased a while ago but that's still where the majority of run and gun dps is going to come from.

Vanguard skillset as a whole better compliments thwe assault tree.

 

It's not that VGs have better compliments. From a pure damage potential, Assault works out for both VGs and Commandos equally well. The only reason VGs operate better with Assault is because their AC, as a whole, is designed to be substantially more mobile. DPS Commandos aren't mobile, which is what kills them in PvP, regardless of what spec they run with.

It's not that VGs have better compliments. From a pure damage potential, Assault works out for both VGs and Commandos equally well. The only reason VGs operate better with Assault is because their AC, as a whole, is designed to be substantially more mobile. DPS Commandos aren't mobile, which is what kills them in PvP, regardless of what spec they run with.

 

Then you agree. My original post in this thread was quoting someone in regards to pvp and mobility.

 

Pve I could care less about. That's more of a gear check.

As playing a sniper as my main, I gotta say... How about start using that heavy armour and try moving around a bit, and then come complain about your class again if needed. And why on earth would you try to go and melee with a Merc in the first place? It's a ranged class, not a melee class.

 

...And yes the range is a defence if you can use the line of sight to your benefit and move. Mercs can also run and gun easily dealing a motherlode of damage while doing so.

 

You sir, make it obvious that you have no clue what you're talking about. Good job.

Same reason why theres a sin trolling operative forum and say operatives are fine coz he got owned by one on his darkness sin in a 1v1.

 

And how concealment are fine if people l2p. and how "badly" sins needed the buff even tho they already have multiple rwz capable tank dps specs. While operatives are forced to go heal or no rwz for you.

I don't know what else to do to get these guys to open up their eyes on this stuff. I'm pretty sick and tired of getting the short end of the stick though with these patches. They nerfed the crap out of us and still haven't figured it out that it was a huge mistake.

 

I agree.

 

We don't have any survivability and we can't take a hit for nothing.

I leveled up my merc only on PvP from 10 to 50. I tried all 3 builds. In mid tree we got good dps but no mobility. We start DPSing we die in next 10 secs. On right tree we have slightly more mobility, but only slightly, and we can't provide DPS as on mid tree. We should have something like jet escape described in our class thread that allows us to fly several meters away and slow targets movement speed by shooting to em, maybe something like effect that occur to prey of Sage targeted by telecinetic throw

the DPS it self isnt the issue, its survivability and utility where the class is just broken. however that beeing sad, i would return the damage prior to the nerf.