I played WoW since it's release. I don't play anymore, but I still think it was and is a GREAT game. The simple truth is I just don't have the time in my life for two MMOs.

 

WoW is the only other MMO I played, so I wouldn't say I'm a hardcore mmoer or anything. But having played since release I remember what it was like when it came out. MUCH different than it is now.

 

At release, wow had no:

Warzones (battlegrounds)

Open world pvp

Valor (honor)

LFG system

Cross-server anything

Faction balance (still doesn't really)

UI customization

Quest objective help

Chat bubbles

...and numerous other things that would now be considered standard.

 

Now SWTOR has released with many of those things, along with FAR greater stability. Was it released with all of them? No, but only within the Blizzard development team is it known for sure whether some of those things were an actual improvement or not. There were droves of people crying for NO LFG system prior to launch because it "damaged the community" or some such thing. Now those folks have fallen conspicuously silent, and droves are crying for a system.

 

Bioware is not privvy to all of Blizzards trade secrets. It's their first delve into the genre, and it has gone WAY better than Blizzards. Just like Blizzard did, Bioware will constantly improve upon the game. I'm confident we'll see a LFG system (a better one) before long. This dev team will learn its own trade secrets, and eventually polish out all the bugs/imbalances that are present.

 

The bottom line is this game in its release state is head and shoulders above what WoW was in its release state. I can't wait too see what they can do with it with a couple years of iterative improvements, as the other game had.

 

It's already pretty awesome, and it can only get better.

First impressions are everything. The market is much different than when WoW came out, what MMO players seven years ago expected from their game is much different than today.

 

In a few years this game might be the perfect MMO, question is...will anyone care?

Rift had each of those items. Are they considered highly successful?

SWTOR only has 3 of those things you listed, Warzones, Valor, and Open World PvP (which is currently completely broken so you could argue it only has 2 of those things).

Rift had each of those items. Are they considered highly successful?

 

There accounts are in the green no ?

Pong had none of those and people loved it.

tbh, I don't really give a damn what WoW released with. If I enjoy playing SWTOR I'll keep playing it, if not I'll find something else to do(maybe even go outside).

 

It's upto BW to keep me entertained, not what another game happened to have 7 years ago.

Rift had each of those items. Are they considered highly successful?

 

This is exactly what I was about to say.

 

Rift had all of those things and more at launch and it flopped.

 

 

Not saying SWTOR will flop, there are many things this game has going for it that Rift does not, mainly an IP people have actually heard of before hand.

 

 

But don't kid yourself. SWTOR will niche out, it won't blow up like WoW did. No game blows up like WoW did. WoW is an anomaly and it would behoove people to understand this and stop comparing games to it, regardless if you think it works in favor of your point.

Edited January 26, 2012 by HavenAE

Stop comparing the game to WoW at release time, it doesn't make any sense.

If you go out and buy a new car today would you then be happy if it only had the same features as cars made 20 years ago?

 

SWTOR is sold today and should be compared to similar games made today.

Comparing it with a game made 7 years ago is just stupid.

If I built a car that only had features that were available 20 years ago, how many do you think I would sell? Do you think me saying "what? That successful car from 22 years ago didn't have all those modern whatchamicallits when it first hit the market, and it sold like hot cakes!" would help me sell more? Edited January 26, 2012 by Umbral

If I built a car that only had features that were available 20 years ago, how many do you think I would sell? Do you think me saying "what? That successful car from 22 years ago didn't have all those modern whatchamicallits when it first hit the market, and it sold like hot cakes!" would help me sell more?

 

Probably not. Then again cars don't have anything in common with video games.

It's a bleeding terrible analogy and I really wish people would stop using it.

 

But don't kid yourself. SWTOR will niche out, it won't blow up like WoW did. No game blows up like WoW did. WoW is an anomaly and it would behoove people to understand this and stop comparing games to it, regardless if you think it works in favor of your point.

 

Aye WoW isn't a game anymore. It stopped being a game when it turned into a social event. It's now part of modern culture. Obviously I don't mean this literally.

Edited January 26, 2012 by ChipHazard

Stop comparing the game to WoW at release time, it doesn't make any sense.

If you go out and buy a new car today would you then be happy if it only had the same features as cars made 20 years ago?

 

SWTOR is sold today and should be compared to similar games made today.

Comparing it with a game made 7 years ago is just stupid.

 

I agree, but I agree that people need to stop comparing any game to WoW period.

 

 

But also stop making ridiculous analogies that have absolutely zero bearing on the MMO market.

Edited January 26, 2012 by HavenAE

This game has an excellent frame and really now just needs consumer support to thrive. It's headed in the right direction.

There accounts are in the green no ?

 

I'm sure they are but I'm also sure their current subscriber base is below their initial expectations. Successful, yes. Highly so? Possibly not.

 

While it's fair to say that Blizzard have had years to iterate and get to where they are it's also not really fair to compare a 2004 launch to a 2011 one. Some things (amount of endgame content, for example) I agree Bioware should be given more time on. Other things though, like a simple global LFG listing tool (think WoW TBC, not the post-3.3 tool) should really be an out-of-the-box feature by this point.

First impressions are everything. The market is much different than when WoW came out, what MMO players seven years ago expected from their game is much different than today.

 

In a few years this game might be the perfect MMO, question is...will anyone care?

 

I'm fence sitting on my opinion of the game, but I see this argument a lot.

 

My question to this is, what wonderfully enjoyable MMO's are people playing today that SW:TOR needs to be better than?

 

I mean, I get WoW had the competition beat on release, but what is SW:TOR even competing with? What is this market it is up against, because frankly, I think MMO's are pretty stale currently.

 

Personally, I think the MMO market is struggling, and lacks many decent enjoyable titles, but from this argument coming up again and again, I feel like folks must be playing MMO's I've never heard of.

I'm sure they are but I'm also sure their current subscriber base is below their initial expectations. Successful, yes. Highly so? Possibly not.

 

While it's fair to say that Blizzard have had years to iterate and get to where they are it's also not really fair to compare a 2004 launch to a 2011 one. Some things (amount of endgame content, for example) I agree Bioware should be given more time on. Other things though, like a simple global LFG listing tool (think WoW TBC, not the post-3.3 tool) should really be an out-of-the-box feature by this point.

 

Agreed.

 

Why should developers bother making any more new MMOs if all anyone is going to do is point out how WoW is so much better than the new one is at launch? I mean if WoW has it all shouldn't we just go play WoW? WoW's had about 10 years or more (pre and post launch) of development, it's going to have more by default. Comparing a new MMO to WoW current is just as asinine as saying "Well In 2004 WoW didn't have this."

 

In short, both stances are pointless.

Edited January 26, 2012 by HavenAE

I agree, but I agree that people need to stop comparing any game to WoW period.

 

Why? It's perfectly natural to compare products and experiences to others. It's how we ultimately make informed decisions. I agree that sometimes people are a bit unfair in their expectations but if WoW raised the bar on certain functionality then that bar exists, like it or not. SWTOR wasn't born in a vacuum - to claim people shouldn't make comparisons does nothing but stifle the ability for this game to meet that raised bar and fulfil those expectations.

The funny thing is, people saying 'don't compare this to WoW/Rift was a flop' are comparing Rift to WoW.

 

On it's own merits, Rift is not a flop. It only looks that way when you compare it to WoW's presence in the market.

WoW had UI customization and mods at release.

Seriously if you people who get your information from a wiki want to seem credible then this is one fact you need to get right. So many incorrectly spout this one off.

 

The open world PvP was there too, what they did not have were rewards for doing so. But no PvPer worth his salt needs a reward for doing what he loves...

This game is a ton of fun to play. That's all that really matters. Edited January 26, 2012 by daemian

Rift had each of those items. Are they considered highly successful?

 

 

Actually yes, yes they are

 

 

*edit* Not by WoW's standard of course, but by the MMO market in general

Edited January 26, 2012 by Vlakrar

Ah yeah... another comparison of an MMO from 8 years ago to what MMO's should be now. Just because wow didn't do it, doesn't mean ToR shouldn't or should be let off the hook for not doing it.

As I read the OP I had this picture in my mind the whole time.

Rift had all of those things and more at launch and it flopped.

 

Rift didn't beat WoW = it flopped?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Mechavomit

If WoW came out today as it did in 2004. It would FAIL. HARD. Not that hard to understand.