So it came to my mind recently, and watching Anakin vs Obi-Wan for the 100th time I figured I should ask this question. Now they say Obi-Wan was letting Anakin push him back to wear him out for him to make a mistake, however clearly throughout the fight it is back firing on him.

 

Instead of Anakin being worn down, Obi-Wan is. Anakin is charging at Obi like a raging bantha and near the end of the fight it didn't even look like he was out of breath whereas with Obi its the opposite.

 

So...was Obi-Wan just lucky that the hill just happened to be there?

 

I mean if that hill wasn't there, I really don't think Obi-Wan could have lasted much longer.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

In Obi-Wan's experience, there's no such thing as "luck."

by that point in anakin's life... it was very likely that he was actually just as good as obi wan.

 

 

Obi obviously wins in experience with battles but it was not likely that this gave him such an edge he could simply wear down anakin to just wait.

 

he was obviously fighting for his life.

Anakin was trying to kill him.

 

while obi wouldn't kill him. He just wanted to stop anakin from hurting anyone else.

 

In the end he got an advantage and anakin wouldn't surrender.

/goes down swinging.

Don't forget that Obi's lightsaber form is about lasting/survival.

Don't forget that Obi's lightsaber form is about lasting/survival.

 

I know this, but that wasn't working it seems because Obi-Wan was the one being worn down not Anakin. Anakin wasn't letting up at all, no matter how good a defense is its only good if you still have the strength to use it and from Obi's position he was being worn down.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI

 

At 3:00 Obi-Wan is like "**** he isn't letting up at all." Whereas with Anakin hes charging at him with everything.

 

At 5:27 you see Obi-Wan and his expression that hes getting worn, he even takes a breath. With Anakin hes just standing there, holding his saber with one hand not looking the least bit tired or worn.

So it came to my mind recently, and watching Anakin vs Obi-Wan for the 100th time I figured I should ask this question. Now they say Obi-Wan was letting Anakin push him back to wear him out for him to make a mistake, however clearly throughout the fight it is back firing on him.

 

Instead of Anakin being worn down, Obi-Wan is. Anakin is charging at Obi like a raging bantha and near the end of the fight it didn't even look like he was out of breath whereas with Obi its the opposite.

 

So...was Obi-Wan just lucky that the hill just happened to be there?

 

I mean if that hill wasn't there, I really don't think Obi-Wan could have lasted much longer.

 

I'm not sure if it is entirely lucky, if you watch the fight Obi-Wan continuously makes more room for him to retreat into. He hits Anakins lightsaber into control panels that opens the door right behind him.

 

He is very defensive and very tactical about it. You could argue it was luck that the hill was there, but also you could also argue Obi-Wan was moving the skiff towards it deliberately for the tactical advantage

Obi-wan had the high ground, Obi-wan might of not been as skilled/powerful/energetic or w/e as Anakin, but he fought smarter, thats why he won. Edited January 18, 2012 by Heckrix

Obi Wan and Qui Gon used to use a more offensive Lightsaber technique (Ataru), but this style proved to be ineffective in longer fights, causing the user to tire. Obi Wan believed that this was what got Qui Gon killed.

 

After that, Obi Wan switched to Soresu, the most defensive technique. Obi Wan needed only outlast his opponents, and strike when there was an opportunity to do so. This form of combat made Obi Wan especially effective against opponents such as Grievous and Ventress. This form is also the perfect counter to Form V (Shien/Djem So), A heavily offensive form which was heavily favored by Anakin. Obi Wan probably never would have been able to outlast Anakin, had it not been for his skill in this technique.

 

He used this technique up to episode 4. He did not need to do anything fancy fighting Vader, He simply needed to be able to parry his attacks. Darth Vader uses so much physical force with his blows that many jedi had a hard time even holding onto their lightsabers when they would hit, Obi Wan however had no problem with this, and while he would likely not be able to defeat Vader, he only allowed himself to be defeated because he knew of the greater role in which he would play.

If Obiwan wasn't surviving based on luck, then he would have died in Episode I, Anakin and Obiwan would have died in the Colosseum, Anakin and Obiwan would have been killed by Count Dooku, and Obiwan would have been killed by Grievous. But maybe luck (in Lucas' mind) was just the Force determining fate.

Just complete advantage. Obi Wan had the high ground = easier to chop off a dudes legs.

 

After that, Obi Wan switched to Soresu, the most defensive technique. Obi Wan needed only outlast his opponents.

 

How do you outlast an opponent who never tires? Throughout the whole fight, not once did you seen Anakin become fatigued or become slow. Theres only so much that a solid defense can bring someone, if the opponent never tires then that defense won't last forever.

Just complete advantage. Obi Wan had the high ground = easier to chop off a dudes legs.

That actually baffled me since the day I watched Ep 3

 

1. Why didn't Anakin simply walk up the hill (and no, force push doesn't come into discussion because either of them could use it in any moment since the bridge fell into lava)

2. If Obi-Wan chopped Anakin's limbs off when the latter was performing a jump over the former's head, how is it possible that he didn't do so earlier when Anakin was doing exactly the same only FROM ONE PLATFORM MOVING THROUGH THE RIVER OF LAVA TO ANOTHER. I know there was a swing or 2 but they were so horribly "fake" compared to actual finale that I'm having a hard time acknowledging them.

 

That said, I'd like to see how would the duel sequences in Eps 4-6 look with today's capabilities. Vader was only performing how he was supposed to in novels whereas movies / games etc, didn't do him any good and portrayed him like a complete clod, unable to do anything but vertical swing and sometimes parry.

Edited January 18, 2012 by gibmachine

Obi-wan had the high ground in episode 3 but what about when Darth Maul had the high ground in episode 1?

 

He learned to just swing up i guess?

That actually baffled me since the day I watched Ep 3

 

1. Why didn't Anakin simply walk up the hill (and no, force push doesn't come into discussion because either of them could use it in any moment since the bridge fell into lava)

2. If Obi-Wan chopped Anakin's limbs off when the latter was performing a jump over the former's head, how is it possible that he didn't do so earlier when Anakin was doing exactly the same only FROM ONE PLATFORM MOVING THROUGH THE RIVER OF LAVA TO ANOTHER. I know there was a swing or 2 but they were so horribly "fake" compared to actual finale that I'm having a hard time acknowledging them.

 

That said, I'd like to see how would the duel sequences in Eps 4-6 look with today's capabilities. Vader was only performing how he was supposed to in novels whereas movies / games etc, didn't do him any good and portrayed him like a complete clod, unable to do anything but vertical swing and sometimes parry.

 

Because when he jumps from one platform to another the platforms are on the same level so he can jump over Obi-Wan. But when Obi-Wan is on the hill Anakin can't jump that high, because Obi-Wan is already above him.

How do you outlast an opponent who never tires? Throughout the whole fight, not once did you seen Anakin become fatigued or become slow. Theres only so much that a solid defense can bring someone, if the opponent never tires then that defense won't last forever.

 

 

 

That said, I'd like to see how would the duel sequences in Eps 4-6 look with today's capabilities. Vader was only performing how he was supposed to in novels whereas movies / games etc, didn't do him any good and portrayed him like a complete clod, unable to do anything but vertical swing and sometimes parry.

 

lol

Vader switched his technique too...

he really was never depicted as an aerial or speed fighter.

in any novels or EU

 

he was more power strikes and heavy force wielding (aka just crush people x-D )

 

he certainly did seem pretty dang old in the movies.

but he hadnt really battled a jedi in like =P 20 years haha

lol

Vader switched his technique too...

he really was never depicted as an aerial or speed fighter.

in any novels or EU

 

he was more power strikes and heavy force wielding (aka just crush people x-D )

 

he certainly did seem pretty dang old in the movies.

but he hadnt really battled a jedi in like =P 20 years haha

 

He had been fighting starkiller 2-3 years before a new hope, he went toe to toe with him absolutely fine. I dont think he would deteriate that much in 2-3 years

Obi had nothing but luck in almost every fight. He is outmatched in almost every fight we see him in. He got past Jango by luck, both on the ground and in ships. Grievous kicked the crap out of him and he got out of that with luck too. Darth Maul he got lucky too, Maul was just toying with him and overconfident, Obi had no shot otherwise. Same with Anakin, he seemed to be tired and outmatched but found a convenient terrain advantage. Obi wan always seemed to me to have good defense and incredibly good luck, but was never exactly a powerhouse when it came to fighting.

So it came to my mind recently, and watching Anakin vs Obi-Wan for the 100th time I figured I should ask this question. Now they say Obi-Wan was letting Anakin push him back to wear him out for him to make a mistake, however clearly throughout the fight it is back firing on him.

 

Instead of Anakin being worn down, Obi-Wan is. Anakin is charging at Obi like a raging bantha and near the end of the fight it didn't even look like he was out of breath whereas with Obi its the opposite.

 

So...was Obi-Wan just lucky that the hill just happened to be there?

 

I mean if that hill wasn't there, I really don't think Obi-Wan could have lasted much longer.

 

He was just being outmatched and driven back. There was no advantage until he got the high ground. Anakin was pushing him back, Anakin was better than Obi-Wan. Fortunately or Unfortunately. Anakin became Obi's better.

 

 

Thats just all there is to it.

 

 

Obi-Wan getting the high ground wasn't lucky, he knew from experience to look for gateways and advantages in a battle. And his opponent wasn't focusing on the area around them, he was on all out rage mode wanting to kill him.

Obi had nothing but luck in almost every fight. He is outmatched in almost every fight we see him in. He got past Jango by luck, both on the ground and in ships. Grievous kicked the crap out of him and he got out of that with luck too. Darth Maul he got lucky too, Maul was just toying with him and overconfident, Obi had no shot otherwise. Same with Anakin, he seemed to be tired and outmatched but found a convenient terrain advantage. Obi wan always seemed to me to have good defense and incredibly good luck, but was never exactly a powerhouse when it came to fighting.

 

Grevious took out Jedi like they were nothing, Obi-Wan was selected because he had mastered his lightsabre form. He cut off two of Grevious hands, only Mace Windu had injured him previously.(unless clone wars changed this) Obi was no push over, and Jango wasn't luck. He trained in hand to hand combat and fought evenly with Jango. Jango killed 6 Jedi in hand to hand combat in one battle.

Darth Maul killed Qui-Gon because of the lack of defense in his style, and yes he was then overconfident from killing a Jedi master (who wouldn't be?)

AS for the fight with Anakin. He was retreating the whole fight, deliberately, waiting for an advantage. Which he took at the first possible opportunity. That's tactics not luck.

You really can't draw any conclusions from the fight from watching the movie. You'd have to read the book to fully understand how the fight went down.

 

Obi-Wan and Anakin had spent countless hours dueling each other, they could both basically predict the next move the other would make. This is probably the main reason why the fight was drawn out so long. Another thing is that Anakin did, in fact, become fatigued and lose concentration over some things. Obi-Wan sensed a moment of lax in Anakin's thinking, and used this moment to use the Force to reverse some motors in Anakin's mechanical hand, and cause him to drop his lightsaber - which Obi-Wan then caught (only to be tackled by Anakin). (He used this same trick with the Force during his duel with Grevious to disarm him).

 

It's also interesting to note that in the book Anakin drew his lightsaber first, not Obi-Wan.

 

When Anakin jumped and Obi-Wan caught him in his knees and elbow, this actually was not intended by Obi-Wan. He had swung his saber to counter Anakin's strike, but Anakin had missed Obi-Wan's saber by a small angle, and because Obi-Wan's saber was already swinging in position he ended up severing Anakin's limbs.

 

I think that the whole "high ground" thing was stupid, though. I think Lucas just couldn't come up with a different way that he could get Anakin maimed.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Paralassa
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OB1 having high ground gave him an automatic take 20 on his next attack roll, and he didn't move during his turn which gave him an attack of opportunity the second Anakin came within range. By that point they both had low HP so Anakin just made a tactical blunder.

So it came to my mind recently, and watching Anakin vs Obi-Wan for the 100th time I figured I should ask this question. Now they say Obi-Wan was letting Anakin push him back to wear him out for him to make a mistake, however clearly throughout the fight it is back firing on him.

 

Instead of Anakin being worn down, Obi-Wan is. Anakin is charging at Obi like a raging bantha and near the end of the fight it didn't even look like he was out of breath whereas with Obi its the opposite.

 

So...was Obi-Wan just lucky that the hill just happened to be there?

 

I mean if that hill wasn't there, I really don't think Obi-Wan could have lasted much longer.

 

There is no luck in Star Wars. The force led up to that final conclusion at the end. One can argue that Obi Wan survived long enough and maneuvered himself into position to benefit from that very spot.

From the novel and the film, as well as their respective canon, I think Obi-Wan barely survived, Vader had every advantage and he was dominating the pace of the duel, Obi-wan is the master of Soresu but no one could use Shien/Djem So like Vader could, according to the choreography for the film, Vader is more powerful, Obi-Wan won due to circumstance, Vader was definitely winning up to that point, but as his been his weakness all his life, he couldn't control his emotions.

s/luck/one with the force/g

s/luck/one with the force/g

 

Had anakin simply hopped down in front of obi it would have probably been different, but no we got to be flashy flashy and do I flip over your head. Whoops!