As someone who has not (yet) played any of the KotoR games, I know very little about Nihilus, except for that he has a cool looking mask and interesting dietary choices. Ive nerver really seen him brought up in debates on this forum and thus assumed that he was not particularly impressive.

However, I have recently seen many posts on another forum that ranged from "He is one of the strongest Sith and can compete with the likes of Bane and Vader." to "He is the most powerful being in all of Star Wars and can stomp Sidious." So is he actually so strong or are the people claiming this badly mistaken?

Powerful enough to keep an almost destroyed warship, and its zombie-like crew, functioning.

Not to forget he can do all that whilst acting independently of said crew and ship, and suck the life out of the populace on a planet.

 

Good thing the player is literally the only thing capable of stopping him.

Playground oneupmanship powerful.

He wiped out all life (bar one person) on a heavily populated world, where the bulk of the Jedi Council were meeting to discuss his 'threat' - Using his mind.

 

That's pretty darn powerful.

For the most part, I always place Darth Nihilus outside the normal strength standards of all force users I tend to use when considering which is stronger. I do this due to his unique set of skills which is essentially all anti-force user techniques that are almost impossible to defend.

 

 

 

What I am trying to say is that while Nihilus might have less pure strength working for him, his strength potential is infinite as well as his ability to pierce any defense. Nor does he have a body to render him weak if they manage to dodge his attacks and strike at him since it is quite literally just robes and his spirit.

 

In other words, due to his abilities, Nihilus cheats his way among the strongest Sith Lords.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Silenceo

For the most part, I always place Darth Nihilus outside the normal strength standards of all force users I tend to use when considering which is stronger. I do this due to his unique set of skills which is essentially all anti-force user techniques that are almost impossible to defend.

 

Nihilus = Indiana Jones

Forcer Users = Swordsman

 

The swordsman is quite skilled and able to measure themselves against other swordsmen quite well. During his display however, he was one shot by the revolver. In the case of Nihilus, his power with drain among other things is nearly undefendable, meaning that the power or skill of his opponent is nearly meaningless. It is only in specific circumstances that he can be defeated, one of which if he fed on a wound. Then again, I am sure if he got sucked into a force storm of Palpatine's he would be finished considering that solo'd fleets.

 

 

What I am trying to say is that while Nihilus might have less pure strength working for him, his strength potential is infinite as well as his ability to pierce any defense. Nor does he have a body to render him weak if they manage to dodge his attacks and strike at him since it is quite literally just robes and his spirit.

 

In other words, due to his abilities, Nihilus cheats his way among the strongest Sith Lords.

 

Warb Null says hello, that guy was just literally armor and his spirit and he was defeated with a single blow from Ulic's saber.

 

Tbh I find Nihilus overrated...or moreso this whole 'potential infinite thing" it doesn't matter to me in the slightest, because we saw what he can do...and that should be it. There should be no guessing as to what he can do, just because he's a spirit. Otherwise, we could do this exact thing for Anakin with his potential too and he never reached it.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

Warb Null says hello, that guy was just literally armor and his spirit and he was defeated with a single blow from Ulic's saber.

 

Tbh I find Nihilus overrated...or moreso this whole 'potential infinite thing" it doesn't matter to me in the slightest, because we saw what he can do...and that should be it. There should be no guessing as to what he can do, just because he's a spirit. Otherwise, we could do this exact thing for Anakin with his potential too and he never reached it.

 

Except that is not the same at all. While Warb Null is a very similar case, the fact remained that he needed someone to possess in order to operate, and once that person died he needed a new host. Nihilus on the other hand, needed no body to possess and unless he was weakened, he was essentially a Sith Spirit that had free reign and a close connection to the physical galaxy.

 

Also for Warb Null, to be fair, when he was discovered again he immediately possessed the man and continued again, not diminished at all. He requires a living host to operate. Nihilus does not. That is the key difference, and has a vastly different effect when it comes to their lethality.

 

As for the "infinite potential" part, that is in direct relation to his power continually increasing to new heights depending on how much he fed. Heck, it was even said during KOTORII that if left unchecked he would soon devour the entire galaxy... Anakin, while technically stronger, did not possess the techniques to be as dangerous to the galaxy at large nor the endurance to do so.

 

Even on his best days as Lord Vader using his most destructive techniques, it would take him quite some time to do what Nihilus does in less than a minute. That, and the process strengthens Nihilus. If for example Nihilus sucked dry multiple planets in rapid succession, he would in theory be untouchable by other force users. Darth Vader on the other hand, while he is the chosen one, would not fare well against Nihilus. As I explained, Nihilus has certain requirements that must be met for him to be defeated and due to this his power is immense and hard to counter. Add in the fact that so few can even defend against his attacks, and there is good reason I tend to not think of Darth Nihilus among the other Sith Lords when thinking of power.

 

Due to his behavior, how his power works, and how he does what he does, in my view he became more a force of nature that represented darkness in the Old Republic. He is designed around countering and decimating force users, and he no longer acts like a person. He exists only then to feed his hunger, his hunger which would consume the galaxy and then himself.

 

While I am sure others could figure a way to defeat him, it would be an up hill battle unless they are of Darth Sidious' caliber. They would have to be able to remove him from the battlefield or destroy everything in a large area. Some of the few who can pull off such a thing:

 

Sidious (Force Storm)

The Ones (Removal from the field)

Celestials (Who knows with these guys...)

Exar Kun (Concentrated Blast)

Jerec (Force Destruction)

Naga Sadow (Super Nova)

BDZ type weapons (Atomization and total destruction)

Krayt (Battle of Wills if I recall correctly)

 

Of those able to defeat Nihilus without having to be able to call upon total destruction:

 

Meetra Suriik (Wound)

 

To defeat Darth Nihilus would require more than a single blow, it would require you to normally out class him and be able to utterly destroy his robes in a single blast or to defeat him mentally as certain dark side techniques teach. Like I said, he is among the strongest of the Sith Lords simply because he cheated. Cheated big time.

My point regarding Null was that he was still a spirit and was still defeated via a lightsaber, so why wouldn't that also happen to Nihilus? When he was defeated, he just disappeared, he didn't linger or anything. His robes weren't completely destroyed nor his mask, he just fell and died.

 

 

 

Although also one could beat him, by being far faster than he could react.

 

Side and unrelated note, is anyone having to relog in each and everytime you leave the forums and come back? This is starting to frustrate me to no end, because now whenever I wanna post I keep having to relog....becoming extremely annoying.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

Naga Sadow (Super Nova)

 

Just to point out, Sadow's ability to do this was limited to two specific requirements.

1 - Needs at least a sun nearby for him to rip out its core to cause the chain reaction for it to go nova.

2 - Needs his crystal device thing to do it. The same device Exar Kun tricked Aleema into using when he planned his raid on the Jedi Library world Ossus, which destroyed her.

Except that is not the same at all. While Warb Null is a very similar case, the fact remained that he needed someone to possess in order to operate, and once that person died he needed a new host. Nihilus on the other hand, needed no body to possess and unless he was weakened, he was essentially a Sith Spirit that had free reign and a close connection to the physical galaxy.

 

Also for Warb Null, to be fair, when he was discovered again he immediately possessed the man and continued again, not diminished at all. He requires a living host to operate. Nihilus does not. That is the key difference, and has a vastly different effect when it comes to their lethality.

 

As for the "infinite potential" part, that is in direct relation to his power continually increasing to new heights depending on how much he fed. Heck, it was even said during KOTORII that if left unchecked he would soon devour the entire galaxy... Anakin, while technically stronger, did not possess the techniques to be as dangerous to the galaxy at large nor the endurance to do so.

 

Even on his best days as Lord Vader using his most destructive techniques, it would take him quite some time to do what Nihilus does in less than a minute. That, and the process strengthens Nihilus. If for example Nihilus sucked dry multiple planets in rapid succession, he would in theory be untouchable by other force users. Darth Vader on the other hand, while he is the chosen one, would not fare well against Nihilus. As I explained, Nihilus has certain requirements that must be met for him to be defeated and due to this his power is immense and hard to counter. Add in the fact that so few can even defend against his attacks, and there is good reason I tend to not think of Darth Nihilus among the other Sith Lords when thinking of power.

 

Due to his behavior, how his power works, and how he does what he does, in my view he became more a force of nature that represented darkness in the Old Republic. He is designed around countering and decimating force users, and he no longer acts like a person. He exists only then to feed his hunger, his hunger which would consume the galaxy and then himself.

 

While I am sure others could figure a way to defeat him, it would be an up hill battle unless they are of Darth Sidious' caliber. They would have to be able to remove him from the battlefield or destroy everything in a large area. Some of the few who can pull off such a thing:

 

Sidious (Force Storm)

The Ones (Removal from the field)

Celestials (Who knows with these guys...)

Exar Kun (Concentrated Blast)

Jerec (Force Destruction)

Naga Sadow (Super Nova)

BDZ type weapons (Atomization and total destruction)

Krayt (Battle of Wills if I recall correctly)

 

Of those able to defeat Nihilus without having to be able to call upon total destruction:

 

Meetra Suriik (Wound)

 

To defeat Darth Nihilus would require more than a single blow, it would require you to normally out class him and be able to utterly destroy his robes in a single blast or to defeat him mentally as certain dark side techniques teach. Like I said, he is among the strongest of the Sith Lords simply because he cheated. Cheated big time.

Really intersting post. Of those you mentioned who would you say is not only able, but likely to defeat Nihilus?

Really intersting post. Of those you mentioned who would you say is not only able, but likely to defeat Nihilus?

 

Of the ones that are likely to defeat Nihilus:

 

Sidious (Force Storm)

- Most powerful Sith Lord ever.

- Some abilities one shot entire fleets.

- Mental power is unbelievable, as seen on Byss.

- Has knowledge of drains and likely how to counter.

- Easy speed blitz.

- Could just come back if he died, with a vengeance!

 

Krayt (Battle of Wills if I recall correctly)

- A power house of the Legacy Era.

- If I recall, a master of Essence Transfer or one of its variants.

- Capable of decimating multiple enemies easily.

- Has lived multiple life times if I recall right.

- While not as powerful as Sidious, he was still quite high in terms of power.

- Sadly, I do not know too much about him to explain in more detail.

 

Exar Kun (Concentrated Blast)

- Expierienced Sorcerer.

- Force blasts I believe shattered stone, one shot force users, and even over powered another sorcerer.

- Speed and furiousity might cause Nihilus issues with bringing his power to bear.

- Saber Prodigy.

- Another of the most powerful sith.

 

The Ones (Removal from the field)

- Not really much to say here, any of the three have hacks...

- Son could take control of him or manipulate him.

- Daughter could likely purify him or heal him of his wound.

- Father could crush him telekentically.

- All of them likely had insane resistances to force based attacks since they are among the oldest Force Users.

 

Possible but unlikely:

 

Jerec (Force Destruction)

- Due to Nihilus's feral nature, could easily read his mind

- Force Destruction has blasted a clean hole through meters thick durasteel

- Doesn't play around and usually tries to end a fight quickly with the force

 

Naga Sadow (Super Nova)

- Mostly I am not too well read up on Naga Sadow, but from what I have heard, he may have some tricks up his sleeve.

- Super Nova, if i remember right, required his meditation sphere and lots of prep

 

 

Basic rundown of my thoughts on each of the previously listed ones and how they might stack up against Nihilus and his specific skill set. Yes, I know many do not think Jerec even has a chance, and yes I know people know I favor him due to him being my leader in the IDD. However, he DOES have the tools available to him to pull it off if it all goes his way. Pure power wise Nihilus out classes him, but Jerec's signature move, Force Destruction, seems custom tailored to deal with one just like Darth Nihilus.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Silenceo

I am actually not sure any of the above could've have destroyed Nihilus? Nihilus is something of an anomaly. Strength in the force would make little difference in this case because they would be up against an undead black hole in the force. Unless they had the specific skill set or some some rare force ritual to counter Nihilus ferocious feeding frenzy they would be turned into nothing pretty quickly. Meetra Surik was the only one known with the prerequisite skill set to stand toe to toe with Nihilus without being instantly turned into vapor. She is not nearly powerful as those in your list but like Nihilus she was a wound in the force.. Even with that she needed the help of Visas Marr to ultimately defeat him. Visas and Nihilus had a force connection which Surik used to her advantage. Nihilus did not even have to be in the same room as all the Jedi he destroyed. He simply focused on a presence in the force and instantly sucked all the life from it. Best way to defeat this guy is run and hide as far away as possible and ultimately he would end up with nothing to feed on but himself. Edited April 23, 2015 by DARTHOSIRUS

Isnt there a rare force power that allows the user to resist force drains?

Isnt there a rare force power that allows the user to resist force drains?

 

Ya, but as far as I know by the time of the "NJO" it wasnt really all that rare. As Jedi Knight III Jedi Academy basically was all about a Force Draining Artifact being used on locations and then it would GIVE others Force Powers, one of the powers they usually got was Force Drain, and pretty much every Knight in the Order was able to ignore such an ability if they were ready for it. Heck the villians couldnt even successfully use the artifact on any one that I know of.

Edited April 23, 2015 by tunewalker

Naga Sadow (Super Nova)

- Mostly I am not too well read up on Naga Sadow, but from what I have heard, he may have some tricks up his sleeve.

- Super Nova, if i remember right, required his meditation sphere and lots of prep

 

From earlier in the thread, replying to your earlier use of Sadow's "super nova" ability...

 

Just to point out, Sadow's ability to do this was limited to two specific requirements.

1 - Needs at least a sun nearby for him to rip out its core to cause the chain reaction for it to go nova.

2 - Needs his crystal device thing to do it. The same device Exar Kun tricked Aleema into using when he planned his raid on the Jedi Library world Ossus, which destroyed her.

 

Nothing to do with meditation sphere, just proximity to a sun and the device.

 

When he did it, he was aboard his ship Corsair, fleeing Republic pursuit and directed the crew to fly as close to a sun as possible, to lure the Republic ships closer to the blast, so as to leave them no chance of escape.

Ya, but as far as I know by the time of the "NJO" it wasnt really all that rare. As Jedi Knight III Jedi Academy basically was all about a Force Draining Artifact being used on locations and then it would GIVE others Force Powers, one of the powers they usually got was Force Drain, and pretty much every Knight in the Order was able to ignore such an ability if they were ready for it. Heck the villians couldnt even successfully use the artifact on any one that I know of.

 

This is the problem with the assertion that Darth Nihilus' power is "super force drain"

 

On a planet of hundreds if not thousands of Jedi, as well as all flora and fauna, only one being was able to resist being devoured by Nihilus.

 

He was an evolution of that technique. The "suction power" of his technique outclassed virtually every Force user, and those powerful in the Force are who he was drawn to more than anything; they were the meals.

 

Your best bet for killing Nihilus would actually be to assault him in the dead of space with the 'Force Insensitive' more than super-saiyan level Sith

---

Edit: and please be advised that blowing him up would not kill him. This is a Sith who held a Star Destroyer together with just his mind and needed only a skeleton crew if any at all.

 

The Battle of Telos did not turn in the Republic's favor until after the Ravager was eliminated from the frey

 

And the ravager could only be destroyed by defeating nihilus while Mandalorian boarders planted proton charges

 

A nova blast would require a similar level of confrontation for it to really kill him

Edited April 24, 2015 by dominaura

This is the problem with the assertion that Darth Nihilus' power is "super force drain"

 

On a planet of hundreds if not thousands of Jedi, as well as all flora and fauna, only one being was able to resist being devoured by Nihilus.

 

He was an evolution of that technique. The "suction power" of his technique outclassed virtually every Force user, and those powerful in the Force are who he was drawn to more than anything; they were the meals.

 

Your best bet for killing Nihilus would actually be to assault him in the dead of space with the 'Force Insensitive' more than super-saiyan level Sith

---

Edit: and please be advised that blowing him up would not kill him. This is a Sith who held a Star Destroyer together with just his mind and needed only a skeleton crew if any at all.

 

The Battle of Telos did not turn in the Republic's favor until after the Ravager was eliminated from the frey

 

And the ravager could only be destroyed by defeating nihilus while Mandalorian boarders planted proton charges

 

A nova blast would require a similar level of confrontation for it to really kill him

 

Except he died from much less, he didn't get back up, he didn't revive, he was defeated in a duel and...well died. So blowing him up seems feasible.

Except he died from much less, he didn't get back up, he didn't revive, he was defeated in a duel and...well died. So blowing him up seems feasible.

 

This has already been addressed. If you're unable to comprehend why this doesn't work, There's nothing I can do for you.

This has already been addressed. If you're unable to comprehend why this doesn't work, There's nothing I can do for you.

 

You mean how he was weakened? That still doesn't matter because we haven't seen him survive anything else, so we take what we have.

You mean how he was weakened?

 

He was "weakened" because he tried to feed on something he couldn't. Meetra Surik.

Without her there, he's basically unstoppable.

He was "weakened" because he tried to feed on something he couldn't. Meetra Surik.

Without her there, he's basically unstoppable.

 

Says where exactly? His Force Drain sure can defeat a large majority of Force Users, but the point is he was still beaten in combat by a lightsaber. All one would need to be, is faster than he could react to and cut him down before he has a chance to use it.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

His Force Drain sure can defeat a large majority of Force Users, but the point is he was still beaten in combat by a lightsaber. All one would need to be, is faster than he could react to and cut him down before he has a chance to use it.

 

He doesn't have Force Drain. He is "Force Drain". He feeds on the very Force energies of living beings. The only other being who was like that, was Meetra Surik.

His very presence begins draining the Force energies out of any living being. Exposure over time leads to a person becoming just like the mindless drones that crew his ship.

 

He and Surik are both walking, talking Force Wounds.

The difference between them is that Surik doesn't have an insatiable hunger and her ability is largely benign by comparison - nobody was killed by her feeding on their Force energies, unlike Nihilus, because her version of that ability was totally passive and served to bolster her own capabilities, instead of being necessary to sustain her.

 

When he tried feeding on Surik, he failed, and did more damage to himself than if it hadn't been Surik.

Combined with Visas using her link to Nihilus to temporarily block his connection with the Force, and he was left absolutely vulnerable.

Defeating Nihilus required Surik first and foremost, and Visas was a bonus.

Without Surik there, he would have easily sucked the life out of anyone who confronted him.

 

Think back to Revan facing Malak aboard the Starforge. Malak drained the captured Jedi of their very life energies to heal himself. That's sort of a middle ground between Surik and Nihilus, but was limited by having to do it consciously and with a limited supply of prepared sources for him to use.

Surik and Nihilus don't need prepared sources, because everyone in the Galaxy is a potential source for them to leech from.

Says where exactly? His Force Drain sure can defeat a large majority of Force Users, but the point is he was still beaten in combat by a lightsaber. All one would need to be, is faster than he could react to and cut him down before he has a chance to use it.

 

Please comprehend the source material before dismissing it.

 

Whether or not he was beaten in lightsaber combat is irrelevant, he was starved to death. He did try to drain Surik, he was unable to.

 

Nihilus cannot be defeated by a typical force user because he devours the Force and gives nothing back; returns nothing

 

Surik was able to defeat him because she was devoid of the Force; deafened to it. On top of that it took Surik, Mandalore the Preserver, and Visas Marr, the only other force user he did not drain, to defeat him.

 

Her powers came from her connection to Kreia.

That is very interesting in the game he was always very easy to dispatch so i did not rank him up there. But since I did a more detail search about him he was on the same level as valkerion that goes to say if that was not valkerion himself. I say this because nihilus and valkerion had the same powers could this have been valkerion veing brought into the game before the old republic?

 

On a planet of hundreds if not thousands of Jedi, as well as all flora and fauna, only one being was able to resist being devoured by Nihilus.

 

 

There probably weren't nearly as many Jedi on that planet as you think. According to Zez-Kai, after the Jedi Civil War, there were barely 100 jedi left.