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Rework 2.6 Concealment Operative Changes


Ilyrian

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Dear TaitWatson and CourtneyWoods and ChrisSchmidt and EricMusco,

 

Let me start off by saying that I don't normally post on the forums for feedback, but I feel obligated to do so for this topic.

 

I have been playing a concealment Operative in PvP for the past year. I have always thought that we needed a little more love in terms of survivability, and perhaps a bit more sustained damage to make us more viable for OPS and other PvE content. I understand that balancing for both PvP and PvE is difficult. So let us assume for now that I am only referring to PvP balancing. Concealment Operatives are a stealth burst class. Burst being the key.

 

When I saw and tested the proposed changes for concealment in 2.6 on the PST, I had a good laugh with other concealment enthusiasts. The consensus was that the damage buff was too great. It resulted in over 4,000 DPS OPS dummy parses on a class with great raid utility (higher than any parse by a Marauder - which is a pure-damage melee class with no self-cleanse, off-heals, or revive ability), and hilariously high burst and sustained damage in PvP. We enjoyed it while it lasted on the PTS. However, we figured that between the testing and the implementation of the proposed changes, they would be re-balanced.

 

Now 2.6 has arrived and there has been no re-balancing. Perhaps it was my fault to assume that there would be enough of an outcry to rework some of the changes (although I have seen plenty of good feedback on this subject from others). I am hereby correcting my mistake - please rework the concealment operative changes. It is simply too much burst and sustained damage, if not for PvE, then for PvP alone.

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Dear TaitWatson and CourtneyWoods and ChrisSchmidt and EricMusco,

 

Let me start off by saying that I don't normally post on the forums for feedback, but I feel obligated to do so for this topic.

 

I have been playing a concealment Operative in PvP for the past year. I have always thought that we needed a little more love in terms of survivability, and perhaps a bit more sustained damage to make us more viable for OPS and other PvE content. I understand that balancing for both PvP and PvE is difficult. So let us assume for now that I am only referring to PvP balancing. Concealment Operatives are a stealth burst class. Burst being the key.

 

When I saw and tested the proposed changes for concealment in 2.6 on the PST, I had a good laugh with other concealment enthusiasts. The consensus was that the damage buff was too great. It resulted in over 4,000 DPS OPS dummy parses on a class with great raid utility (higher than any parse by a Marauder - which is a pure-damage melee class with no self-cleanse, off-heals, or revive ability), and hilariously high burst and sustained damage in PvP. We enjoyed it while it lasted on the PTS. However, we figured that between the testing and the implementation of the proposed changes, they would be re-balanced.

 

Now 2.6 has arrived and there has been no re-balancing. Perhaps it was my fault to assume that there would be enough of an outcry to rework some of the changes (although I have seen plenty of good feedback on this subject from others). I am hereby correcting my mistake - please rework the concealment operative changes. It is simply too much burst and sustained damage, if not for PvE, then for PvP alone.

 

Everything this guy said x100. I pretty much have no reason to play my marauder over my operative anymore because he just does it better with more perks. The changes needed to buff concealment were minimal at best, they were still a more than viable choice for operatives. To say they went overboard was an understatement. Now they dominate in both healing AND dps. I don't know why Bioware is trying to make op/scoundrel the super class.

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It's problematic. Insanely so. I logged onto my Operative, whom I have for almost exactly 2 years. I have never, ever once DPS'd on her. Not even once. Once I hit level 10, It was straight flashpoint and PvP healing. The only DPS I've ever done on her is technical while in heal spec, I would swap to doing damaging attacks to kill low players and give our team the DPS boost they needed to wipe an objective. Today I logged in and spec'd Concealment. In 100% healing gear, with 5 Alacrity enhancements, I was consistently hitting for 8k Hidden Strikes, 6-8k Backstabs, and 3 glowballing players. There was one 10k hit mixed in. I have yet to see a match where damage from any player eclipses 550-600k, because people aren't alive long enough for sustained engagements. Two Operatives jump onto someone, and 3-4 globals later it's dead.

 

I'm very honest when it comes to balance within games I play. My main has been a Marauder since launch, and I have been supportive of a Rage/Smash damage nerf since 1.2. I have an Assassin and I think Deception needs a small damage nerf, or a change to their survivability cooldowns. This is the first time I've played a spec and said "This is 100% gamebreaking". I think this needs a quick response from the BW staff and an immediate change, it threatens an already hurting PvP community.

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HAHAHAHahhahahaahHAHAHAHAAHHAhahahahahahahHAHAHAHAH

 

 

Pre 1.2 all over again. Cry rivers my friends, keep on crying.

 

You all deserve it for us being **** for 2 years+ while you guys got to have all the fun.

 

Super viable? Our heals were viable...scrapper was not.

 

How many scrappers were brought into 4v4 arenas?

 

How many scrappers got raid spots as scrapper?

 

This community is literally hilarious.

 

Love it

 

This would be worth reading if the OP was actually complaining about the class without having played it, but he isnt. Hes complaining because its *********** easy-mode as a concealment op with the damage as it is and even those who play that class as their mains can see that. There's always going to be those who will defend a patch that makes their class overpowered. You said it yourself 'us being **** for 2 years+'. That comment right there reaks of just being butthurt for being bad at your own class.

Edited by JoolsW
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It's problematic. Insanely so. I logged onto my Operative, whom I have for almost exactly 2 years. I have never, ever once DPS'd on her. Not even once. Once I hit level 10, It was straight flashpoint and PvP healing. The only DPS I've ever done on her is technical while in heal spec, I would swap to doing damaging attacks to kill low players and give our team the DPS boost they needed to wipe an objective. Today I logged in and spec'd Concealment. In 100% healing gear, with 5 Alacrity enhancements, I was consistently hitting for 8k Hidden Strikes, 6-8k Backstabs, and 3 glowballing players. There was one 10k hit mixed in. I have yet to see a match where damage from any player eclipses 550-600k, because people aren't alive long enough for sustained engagements. Two Operatives jump onto someone, and 3-4 globals later it's dead.

 

I'm very honest when it comes to balance within games I play. My main has been a Marauder since launch, and I have been supportive of a Rage/Smash damage nerf since 1.2. I have an Assassin and I think Deception needs a small damage nerf, or a change to their survivability cooldowns. This is the first time I've played a spec and said "This is 100% gamebreaking". I think this needs a quick response from the BW staff and an immediate change, it threatens an already hurting PvP community.

 

Sounds like crying, I still get CCed, and kited just as easy as before, also pre 2.6 if two ops got on someone they died in 3 or 4 globals anyway. Stop QQing because concealment ops are the bane of maras.

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I will be honest and say I need to get in and try it first hand, but I just don't think it can be nearly as bad as people post; who at least half of them I know have not even tried it either. Either way, I plan to experience it on both the giving and receiveing end as my slinger always seems to be a juicy morsel for stealthies to come after.
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This would be worth reading if the OP was actually complaining about the class without having played it, but he isnt. Hes complaining because its *********** easy-mode as a concealment op with the damage as it is and even those who play that class as their mains can see that. There's always going to be those who will defend a patch that makes their class overpowered. You said it yourself 'us being **** for 2 years+'. That comment right there reaks of just being butthurt for being bad at your own class.

 

Except I'm not bad and was one of the most active membesr on the operative forums years ago, you can still pull up my posts trying to encourage people to play it while every cried and called themselves garbage. Feel free to auto assume though. I'm simply finding this comical because it is like this every patch. Wah wah wah overpowered this overpowered that. It never changes. The class was **** in any competetive format. Normal warzones are not real pvp. 8v8 was and now arena is. Conc/Scrapper was not viable there since live....and to be honest wont be now. (THAT IS WHAT IM REFERRING TO)

 

Wah wah wah

Edited by Cwild
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This will change once people get bored of the FOTM, it always happens. They will go back to smash because they like bigger aoe numbers. They will go back to healing because they are getting killed in 4 globals. Just takes time for things to happen.
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Wait, there's still pvp in this game?

 

 

In all honesty though, I knew that Concealment spec was going to be absurd when I read the patch notes and saw what people are parsing. Which is why I will not be pvping much if at all while they are this powerful. No one wants to get killed before they can do anything, that's why they got the nerf bat at the start of the game.

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Wait, there's still pvp in this game?

 

 

In all honesty though, I knew that Concealment spec was going to be absurd when I read the patch notes and saw what people are parsing. Which is why I will not be pvping much if at all while they are this powerful. No one wants to get killed before they can do anything, that's why they got the nerf bat at the start of the game.

 

They are no where near as powerful even after this patch than they were then.... not even comparable

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Sounds like crying, I still get CCed, and kited just as easy as before, also pre 2.6 if two ops got on someone they died in 3 or 4 globals anyway. Stop QQing because concealment ops are the bane of maras.

 

Uh, I've never had a problem with Operatives in either spec. Can't complain when one comes by and tags you while you're at sub 30% health, in a stand up fight it's laughable how unbalanced that matchup is for the Marauder. So you can take that unbased assumption and ****. I'm not above playing the better class for a specific job, I take my Sniper in when the fight or group calls for it, I stopped Assassin tanking because it's irrelevant. I'm a proponent of class balance, and me running a spec I have never touched before today and globalling players is not balanced at all.

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Uh, I've never had a problem with Operatives in either spec. Can't complain when one comes by and tags you while you're at sub 30% health, in a stand up fight it's laughable how unbalanced that matchup is for the Marauder. So you can take that unbased assumption and ****. I'm not above playing the better class for a specific job, I take my Sniper in when the fight or group calls for it, I stopped Assassin tanking because it's irrelevant. I'm a proponent of class balance, and me running a spec I have never touched before today and globalling players is not balanced at all.

 

They could also be terrible? It isn't hard to global anybody with any dps spec in this game if the players are terrible. Against the good players on the servers though, you will not be globaling them... or will you? (this is the question we will find out later tonight when everyone is on)

 

Its 2:20 pm est... I have found that when I play during the day when I have a day off of work or something I play against pve'rs and terribads who are trying to get the daily. The better players pop on from 8pm-11pm. Just from personal experience.

Edited by Cwild
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...Conc/Scrapper was not viable there since live....and to be honest wont be now. (THAT IS WHAT IM REFERRING TO)

 

Wah wah wah

 

If you re-read my post, Cwild, you will see that I never said concealment/scrapper should remain as it was. In fact I said the opposite - that we needed for the spec to be reworked. I specifically mentioned that conc/scrap needed more sustained damage to be viable in OPS. I also mentioned that we needed more survivability for PvP. Instead, the devs gave the class sustained damage and way more burst. The way more burst aspect is really what I'm having a problem with in PvP. I am glad that the spec got some attention, but it was done so poorly that I felt the need to throw in my 2 cents.

 

You said it yourself - even now, conc/scrap may not be viable for 4v4 competitive PvP. I believe that is because of our issues with survivability. The devs decided not to touch that, however, because it would be, and im paraphrasing here, 'too difficult to increase scoundrel/OP DPS survivability without also buffing healer survivability'.

 

All I'm asking for is a better job from the devs at reworking this class.

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It is simply too much burst and sustained damage, if not for PvE, then for PvP alone.

 

I remember taking some time away from PvPing to do the Xenoanalyst this last Gree Event. I was told by a PvEr that Concealment Operative is the worst DPS in the game and that I should respec Lethality to be decent for PvE.

 

Who cares if we have top-tier DPS now? We still don't have the defensives or cc immunities of the other melee classes. Any premade can target a DPS op and drop him through guard and heals. We're that squishy and killing the DPS operative first is a common strategy.

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If you re-read my post, Cwild, you will see that I never said concealment/scrapper should remain as it was. In fact I said the opposite - that we needed for the spec to be reworked. I specifically mentioned that conc/scrap needed more sustained damage to be viable in OPS. I also mentioned that we needed more survivability for PvP. Instead, the devs gave the class sustained damage and way more burst. The way more burst aspect is really what I'm having a problem with in PvP. I am glad that the spec got some attention, but it was done so poorly that I felt the need to throw in my 2 cents.

 

You said it yourself - even now, conc/scrap may not be viable for 4v4 competitive PvP. I believe that is because of our issues with survivability. The devs decided not to touch that, however, because it would be, and im paraphrasing here, 'too difficult to increase scoundrel/OP DPS survivability without also buffing healer survivability'.

 

All I'm asking for is a better job from the devs at reworking this class.

 

Increasing the cost of Acid Blade/Flechette and upon activation giving a 10-20% dodge boost would make a lot of sense. It controls upfront and sustained DPS by forcing Tier 2 resource regen, and when combined with roll gives you a quick getaway at the cost of screwing your energy. Nothing about heal spec or Lethality gets reworked.

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Uh, I've never had a problem with Operatives in either spec. Can't complain when one comes by and tags you while you're at sub 30% health, in a stand up fight it's laughable how unbalanced that matchup is for the Marauder. So you can take that unbased assumption and ****. I'm not above playing the better class for a specific job, I take my Sniper in when the fight or group calls for it, I stopped Assassin tanking because it's irrelevant. I'm a proponent of class balance, and me running a spec I have never touched before today and globalling players is not balanced at all.

 

Its absolutely no different than middle line for assassins and shadows, yet everyone wants to QQ even though sins and shadows still have better defensive cooldowns

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If you re-read my post, Cwild, you will see that I never said concealment/scrapper should remain as it was. In fact I said the opposite - that we needed for the spec to be reworked. I specifically mentioned that conc/scrap needed more sustained damage to be viable in OPS. I also mentioned that we needed more survivability for PvP. Instead, the devs gave the class sustained damage and way more burst. The way more burst aspect is really what I'm having a problem with in PvP. I am glad that the spec got some attention, but it was done so poorly that I felt the need to throw in my 2 cents.

 

You said it yourself - even now, conc/scrap may not be viable for 4v4 competitive PvP. I believe that is because of our issues with survivability. The devs decided not to touch that, however, because it would be, and im paraphrasing here, 'too difficult to increase scoundrel/OP DPS survivability without also buffing healer survivability'.

 

All I'm asking for is a better job from the devs at reworking this class.

 

It really wouldn't of been to hard to give conc/scrap survivabilty. Just throw it on a talent up the tree similar to madness sorcs getting their stun % talent. It is just irrelevant though because Bioware and EA have no idea what they are doing.

 

Also to be honest, even before 1.2 how many operatives/scrappers did you see. My server had maybe 6 total who were good (myself included) that was it. The rest of them were awful, and couldn't quite figure it out yet people complained anyway. Why you ask? Because they are equally awful. This game has one of the worst gaming communities skill wise in any MMO I have ever played. It has been stated multiple times in hundreds of threads. That's fine, I'm all for everyone playing games they enjoy, but before they come to forums and cry and complain they really should try to get better first.

 

Just my 2cents.

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Dear TaitWatson and CourtneyWoods and ChrisSchmidt and EricMusco,

 

Let me start off by saying that I don't normally post on the forums for feedback, but I feel obligated to do so for this topic.

 

I have been playing a concealment Operative in PvP for the past year. I have always thought that we needed a little more love in terms of survivability, and perhaps a bit more sustained damage to make us more viable for OPS and other PvE content. I understand that balancing for both PvP and PvE is difficult. So let us assume for now that I am only referring to PvP balancing. Concealment Operatives are a stealth burst class. Burst being the key.

 

When I saw and tested the proposed changes for concealment in 2.6 on the PST, I had a good laugh with other concealment enthusiasts. The consensus was that the damage buff was too great. It resulted in over 4,000 DPS OPS dummy parses on a class with great raid utility (higher than any parse by a Marauder - which is a pure-damage melee class with no self-cleanse, off-heals, or revive ability), and hilariously high burst and sustained damage in PvP. We enjoyed it while it lasted on the PTS. However, we figured that between the testing and the implementation of the proposed changes, they would be re-balanced.

 

Now 2.6 has arrived and there has been no re-balancing. Perhaps it was my fault to assume that there would be enough of an outcry to rework some of the changes (although I have seen plenty of good feedback on this subject from others). I am hereby correcting my mistake - please rework the concealment operative changes. It is simply too much burst and sustained damage, if not for PvE, then for PvP alone.

 

BW have already state there is no hybrid tax in this game. The 4k dps parse that have been going around is on a target dummy with no movement at all. In a raid setting Concealment will do worse. Most bosses still favour lethality operative so your point about dmg beeing over the top seems more like a knee-jerk reaction a few hours into the patch.

Edited by Thubb
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Personally, Ops have had enough of a run. They've been the only viable PVP healer since launch. In 8 man objective based PVP they are kings with the ability to stealth, roll, and stun-cap nodes. They are already the objective kings of PVP and now you give them top DPS too? So lets just make them the scariest PVP dps, Healer, and objective class.

 

So they want to whine and moan about not being able to solo 5 PT pyro's at a time... Buncha bad players on operatives and they need to get nerfed into being completely useless in PVP for a year...

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