Wolf, I think you should consider using Gizoogle's version of your signature quote. It's got.... not exactly panache, but a certain force to it.

Oh lord, when I read that I couldn't stop laughin! Thankyou Warren.

 

Speaking of which, your sig is kinda funny too:

 

"Opinion: Yo Crazy-*** resistizzle is most entertaining, meatbag."

 

Also, from now on if you which to refamiliraize yourselves this the rules, you will consult this page.

 

EDIT: On a serious note, concerning finding the Telos Factory: I assume she would track it down in a similar way to how HK-47 did, by capturing the droids. However one way G0-T0 might attempt to counter this is my giving his units a in-built self destruct mechanism. But then again.. he didn't do that before.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Beniboybling

Oh lord, when I read that I couldn't stop laughin! Thankyou Warren.

 

EDIT: On a serious note, concerning finding the Telos Factory: I assume she would track it down in a similar way to how HK-47 did, by capturing the droids. However one way G0-T0 might attempt to counter this is my giving his units a in-built self destruct mechanism. But then again.. he didn't do that before.

 

I just had to share!

 

Finding the factory by capturing an HK unit assumes that the scenarios I presented earlier (HKs vs. Traya and Droids vs. MSG) do not succeed. Which they will, seeings as Traya will be taken by surprise due to her inability to sense droids in pretty much every way. So G0-T0 will have the first strike and only if that fails will Traya even have the chance of making a valid offensive against him.

 

Also, I'm not sure how HK-47 used the droids to find the factory. Maybe he downloaded the coordinates? I'm asking because the HK units are compatable. He can access the files in the HK-50's mainframe, while Traya could not. EDIT: Oh, HK-47 tortured one? I think it's safe to assume that, if the attempt fails, no HK will be left alive to torture. And really, no one knows how to torture droids other than droids themselves.

 

And also, on Peragus, the HK-50 that you fight self-destructs after a five second countdown.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Warren-Stride

I just had to share!

 

Finding the factory by capturing an HK unit assumes that the scenarios I presented earlier (HKs vs. Traya and Droids vs. MSG) do not succeed. Which they will, seeings as Traya will be taken by surprise due to her inability to sense droids in pretty much every way. So G0-T0 will have the first strike and only if that fails will Traya even have the chance of making a valid offensive against him.

 

I don't think that Traya will be taken by surprise. The HK-50 Units are hardly known for their subtlety, so an attempt to assassinate Traya would probably become violent long before they reached the Trayus Core. After all, Traya is surrounded by Sith Assassins (I'd imagine they have pretty good awareness of their surroundings) and various other Sith Acolytes and Troopers.

 

Realistically, I don't see anything short of a full-scale assault by the HK-50 units succeeding. After all, their usual method of infiltration is to pose as protocol droids, but Traya despises droids and isn't known to keep any in her academy.

Additionally, I'm not sure that Traya will have access to the beasts from Dxun/Onderon. That was strictly Nihilus' operation, after the dissolution of the Sith Triumvirate. While it makes sense for her to have access to the Troopers, Acolytes, and Sith who are remnants of Revan's Empire, the facility at Freedon Nadd's tomb wasn't a part of her powerbase.

Additionally, I'm not sure that Traya will have access to the beasts from Dxun/Onderon. That was strictly Nihilus' operation, after the dissolution of the Sith Triumvirate. While it makes sense for her to have access to the Troopers, Acolytes, and Sith who are remnants of Revan's Empire, the facility at Freedon Nadd's tomb wasn't a part of her powerbase.

Yeah, no beasts. And while assassinating Traya will be difficult, activating the MSG will not be so difficult... but as others have said, she will likely be on Korriban anyway and perhaps use Malachor as a decoy. So really that's what we should be discussing.

Yeah, no beasts. And while assassinating Traya will be difficult, activating the MSG will not be so difficult... but as others have said, she will likely be on Korriban anyway and perhaps use Malachor as a decoy. So really that's what we should be discussing.

 

Won't it? It is very illogical for Traya to abandon her fortress in the heart of Malachor without taking steps to defend the MSG. If she is aware that it can be reactivated (if G0-T0 knows this, then she probably would as well) then it would make sense to have Assassins monitoring the components of the MSG to prevent G0-T0 from activating it, or at least have advance warning if he tries. This would allow Traya to mount a counter attack against his droids, and her forces would have the "home field advantage" so to speak, of feeding off Malachor's energies.

I don't think that Traya will be taken by surprise. The HK-50 Units are hardly known for their subtlety, so an attempt to assassinate Traya would probably become violent long before they reached the Trayus Core. After all, Traya is surrounded by Sith Assassins (I'd imagine they have pretty good awareness of their surroundings) and various other Sith Acolytes and Troopers.

 

As Beni pointed out earlier in the debate, the Trayus Core is a giant hole, straight down to the middle of the planet. You know, big anough for the Ebon Hawk to fly through. The HK-50's could drop down through that opeening, and BOOM, there's faced with a Traya who can't sense their presense. Also, Traya was usually alone in the Core, seeing as it's her meditation chamber.

But as others have said, she will likely be on Korriban anyway and perhaps use Malachor as a decoy. So really that's what we should be discussing.

 

There's no logical reason Traya would leave Malachor.

 

The only argument I see for why she would leave is because then she would be safe from the scenarios that have been presented. Which doesn't make any sense, seeing as Traya doesn't know these are going to happen.

 

If she doesn't forsee Malachor being destroyed because when it does it results in her death, she'll assume it's safe. She'll have no senses that G0-T0's droids are coming or even on the planet. She'll know that any biological forces will be corrupted, which means leaving will leave her open to attack from G0-T0's othjer bounty hunters.

 

Plus Korriban is a much less defendable location.

Won't it? It is very illogical for Traya to abandon her fortress in the heart of Malachor without taking steps to defend the MSG. If she is aware that it can be reactivated (if G0-T0 knows this, then she probably would as well) then it would make sense to have Assassins monitoring the components of the MSG to prevent G0-T0 from activating it, or at least have advance warning if he tries. This would allow Traya to mount a counter attack against his droids, and her forces would have the "home field advantage" so to speak, of feeding off Malachor's energies.

 

2.) Other Droids

Again, Traya will not be able to see this attack coming, seeing as they are droids. These droids, including fake G0-T0s and Remote-clones, could land on Malachor and attempt to activate the Mass Shadow Generator. They're small and also deadly, while not being affected by Malachor's darkness. A lot like the remote. The G0-T0 clones could stealth as well, avoiding any defenses or Storm Beasts. Being the brilliant droid computer that he is, G0-T0 could probably equip one of his droids with a hacker/slicer. G0-T0 obviously knew of the MSG, so this would be a key plan of attack.

 

The process to activate the MSG is incredibly easy. All one of G0-T0's droids would have to do is stealth up to the terminal. The Sith Assassins, even if stealthed, would not be able to detect the droids (through the Force or sight) before they activated the MSG.

The fake G0-T0's would be quite effective actually. They are known to have flamethrowers, which can't exactly be blocked by a lightsaber. The assassins would also have to fight through many of them to HOPEFULLY find G0-T0. Sorry for not posting in a while. Stupid life- why are we suddenly busy?!?!?!?

So I recently discovered Gizoogle, and you HAVE to see what it does to our debates! It's HILARIOUS!

 

WARNING: Their will be curse words. XD

 

http://www.gizoogle.net/index.php?search=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.swtor.com%2Fcommunity%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D602122%26page%3D12&se=Gizoogle+Dis+*******

 

*Cough* Sorry.... resume the debate.

 

That was one of the funniest things I have seen in a while. I spent about an hour reading what it says about the dev tracker and how it translates the PVP forums " Game Update 1.7 Return of tha Gree is now live biaaatch! Peep mo' here."

Edited March 1, 2013 by steaktrooper

The process to activate the MSG is incredibly easy. All one of G0-T0's droids would have to do is stealth up to the terminal. The Sith Assassins, even if stealthed, would not be able to detect the droids (through the Force or sight) before they activated the MSG.

 

Stealth is hardly infallible, it merely confers an advantage when attempting to infiltrate. The assassins will likely have the perception skills to detect the droids.

 

There's also the matter that G0-T0 may not be able to immediately figure out how to activate the MSG. It would require some slicing and decoding on his part, which vastly increases the chance of detection as well.

 

 

And on the topic of assassination, does G0-T0 know about the Trayus Core? It's not exactly obvious which particular chasm to fly down on Malachor. The only way the Exile found it was by going through the Trayus Academy.

Stealth is hardly infallible, it merely confers an advantage when attempting to infiltrate. The assassins will likely have the perception skills to detect the droids.

 

There's also the matter that G0-T0 may not be able to immediately figure out how to activate the MSG. It would require some slicing and decoding on his part, which vastly increases the chance of detection as well.

 

 

And on the topic of assassination, does G0-T0 know about the Trayus Core? It's not exactly obvious which particular chasm to fly down on Malachor. The only way the Exile found it was by going through the Trayus Academy.

 

That goes both ways though, and since G0-T0's stunt doubles can hover without kicking up dust, they have the advantage, cause the Sith Assassins leave footprints.

That goes both ways though, and since G0-T0's stunt doubles can hover without kicking up dust, they have the advantage, cause the Sith Assassins leave footprints.

 

But are their motivators silent? Droids usually make a distinct sound while hovering.

And on the topic of assassination, does G0-T0 know about the Trayus Core? It's not exactly obvious which particular chasm to fly down on Malachor. The only way the Exile found it was by going through the Trayus Academy.

 

The Exile went through the Academy because she had to.

 

Remember that the Ebon Hawk seemed to have no trouble not only finding it, but also flying down into it. Heck, G0-T0 could fly his yacht down to blast Traya to peices. (That was a hyberbole. But now that I think about it...)

 

Also, G0-T0 has plenty of sensor droids that could remain undetected. I'm sure he'd send them ahead to scout the place out.

There is one problem with the HK stealth attack however. Force sight.

 

Despite what everyone says about Traya being 'blind' she can actually see far more and far better than any normal human being. In fact she can see through walls, in the dark, and percieve a person's alignment (this probably wouldn't work on a droid though.) And I think its safe to say she can see droids through Force sight, given that she can see T3, droid attackers etc. This would also nullify the effects of stealth as they were not designed to counter the Force.

The Exile went through the Academy because she had to.

 

Remember that the Ebon Hawk seemed to have no trouble not only finding it, but also flying down into it. Heck, G0-T0 could fly his yacht down to blast Traya to peices. (That was a hyberbole. But now that I think about it...)

 

Also, G0-T0 has plenty of sensor droids that could remain undetected. I'm sure he'd send them ahead to scout the place out.

Perhaps the Ebon Hawk was homing in on the Exile's position? That would make sense, since I don't see another way that the Trayus Core would be located. It's hardly in an obvious position.

 

Also, G0-T0 would have considerable difficulty getting onto Malachor without crashing, losing communications, etc. The planet is decidedly unstable.

There is one problem with the HK stealth attack however. Force sight.

 

Despite what everyone says about Traya being 'blind' she can actually see far more and far better than any normal human being. In fact she can see through walls, in the dark, and percieve a person's alignment (this probably wouldn't work on a droid though.) And I think its safe to say she can see droids through Force sight, given that she can see T3, droid attackers etc. This would also nullify the effects of stealth as they were not designed to counter the Force.

 

The HK attack presented never included stealth.

 

Even if she can see droids through Force Sight, they don't stand out. In KotOR, we can see that when using Force Sight living things are highlighted blue/red/grey depending on alignment. While droids are the same dull grey as the rest of the surroundings. So although Traya may be able to see the HKs, they'd still be blended into the background. Add to that the fact that she's used to sensing people before they're close, she'll probably be meditating, and that the HKs have the elemnt of surprise, they would still get the drop on Traya.

Perhaps the Ebon Hawk was homing in on the Exile's position? That would make sense, since I don't see another way that the Trayus Core would be located. It's hardly in an obvious position.

 

Also, G0-T0 would have considerable difficulty getting onto Malachor without crashing, losing communications, etc. The planet is decidedly unstable.

 

To my knowledge, the Exile didn't carry a homing device. Obviously how the Ebon Hawk got there will be a mystery to us forever, but regardless, it was still able to find it. It IS a giant hole in the ground, heading straight to the center of the world. I'm sure any sensor could pick something like that up.

 

And true. But G0-T0's yacht was much larger than the Ebon Hawk. So it could be more stable and easier to fly.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Warren-Stride

I don't think size really matters, being that warships and the like also crashed and burned onto the planet. Atton only seemed to do so, cause well....he is one BAMF Jedi scoundrel am pretty sure his heightened reflexes helped him out too with the whole.

 

Qui gon: "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a jedi trait."

 

bit.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

I don't think size really matters, being that warships and the like also crashed and burned onto the planet. Atton only seemed to do so, cause well....he is one BAMF Jedi scoundrel am pretty sure his heightened reflexes helped him out too with the whole.

 

Qui gon: "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a jedi trait."

 

bit.

 

Droids are historically better at piloting than living things. Even Jedi,

 

"Flying is for droids!" - Obi-wan

 

And we know that there is a way to get off/on Malachor safely. Traya and her forces do it.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Warren-Stride

Droids are historically better at piloting than living things. Even Jedi,

 

"Flying is for droids!" - Obi-wan

 

And we know that there is a way to get off/on Malachor safely. Traya and her forces do it.

 

Well now, we know Obi-Wan doesn't like flying. I wouldn't say historically droids are better, some perhaps but not all, I mean you can't just stick any old droid and expect it to fly great even with flight programs in, they would have to be specific. While right they do, I imagine its because they are somehow able to negate the effects how they do that who knows.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Droids are historically better at piloting than living things. Even Jedi,

 

"Flying is for droids!" - Obi-wan

 

And we know that there is a way to get off/on Malachor safely. Traya and her forces do it.

 

Yeah... he said that while outflying an entire squadron of Vulture droids in a dogfight....

Droids are historically better at piloting than living things. Even Jedi,

 

"Flying is for droids!" - Obi-wan

 

And we know that there is a way to get off/on Malachor safely. Traya and her forces do it.

 

Just to pop in, Anakin Skywalker was the greatest pilot ever, his son came in at second place.

Alright, time to win this! I think we are forgetting something- G0-T0s droid army. Yes, he has an army, and it spanned the ENTIRE GALAXY. They where programmed to capture Jedi and Sith alike, and bring them to G0-T0. Numbers on the other hand, are none. There are no known numbers of the droids, but they are still there. We also have to figure, if they are programmed to capture Jedi and Sith, they must have decent knowledge to at least attempt to do this. How good are they at their job? Well, maybe not great, but neither are all of the Sith Traya has. We also have every single droid malfunctioning on Nar Shaddaa under G0-T0's control as well. He can afford to lose some battles- he has numbers on his side.