Hey peeps,

I'm trying to restart my game of the week series on youtube highlighting a fun / interesting / good game and this one features a Civil War game on the Harbinger server.

It's a decent example on how positioning and map awareness can really help you in a game where people are mainly zerging around and hopefully it'll help some people out.

Any suggestions or requests for other videos let me know and I'll see what I can do!

Game Of The Week #2 - Civil War on Harbinger

Hi snave! was great to meet you in London I have an idea for a series you might like: a pvp workshop. Inspired by this series

the basic idea is a viewer records a game he plays then posts it to you and you then make a video going through it, pointing out what could be improved. What do you think?

I'd love to do that but seeing as I'm Mr One Class I'm not sure how much help i'd be for non operatives. I suppose I could get together a bunch of different players to help out with the class specific things for the videos but yeah, I really like this idea.

Also, who were you in London!?

Hey peeps,

 

I'm trying to restart my game of the week series on youtube highlighting a fun / interesting / good game and this one features a Civil War game on the Harbinger server.

 

It's a decent example on how positioning and map awareness can really help you in a game where people are mainly zerging around and hopefully it'll help some people out.

 

Any suggestions or requests for other videos let me know and I'll see what I can do!

 

Game Of The Week #2 - Civil War on Harbinger

Snave, that was an excellent example of how to play objective PVP and a smart use of tactics.

It was also an excellent example of what not to do. Both your team and the enemy team weren't really interested in playing objective PVP, with out doubt, you did win that match for them.

People seem to forget that 8man is objective PVP and arena is death match. I always see people complaining about the damage another team is doing to them or how little damage that people on their own team are doing. Except all the while they are off death matching in the middle of no where. They are the first to complain when they lose, they abuse everyone who did less dps then them, even the guy guarding all match. But this person is also the person who death matched in the middle of no where to buff their DPS. They contribute nothing to their team, even if the team wins.

Everyone who PVPs should watch this video to learn what it means to play objective PVP and see what it means to play as a contributing member of the team and not a selfish player who is only out for DPS glory.

So, this might come off as being subtly critical, but trust me, I'm anything but subtle. I'm trying to understand, not be critical.

Normally I'm one of those people who's mantra is to "defend what we have!" Instead of giving up an owned node as lost, I'd be the one rushing in solo hoping to stop their recap, and buy enough time for my next teammate to show up and do the same. Plus if tried to do what you did on my scoundrel, we'll I'm nowhere near as good as you, so I'm sure I would have failed miserably at the solo sap cap thing.

So what's the tipping point that made you decide, apparently, that the node you just took was a lost cause, and the better course of action was to go try another one. Or, more bluntly, how come that wasn't you just being a selfish attention whore, wanting to be the solo ninja hero over and over?

So, this might come off as being subtly critical, but trust me, I'm anything but subtle. I'm trying to understand, not be critical.

 

Normally I'm one of those people who's mantra is to "defend what we have!" Instead of giving up an owned node as lost, I'd be the one rushing in solo hoping to stop their recap, and buy enough time for my next teammate to show up and do the same. Plus if tried to do what you did on my scoundrel, we'll I'm nowhere near as good as you, so I'm sure I would have failed miserably at the solo sap cap thing.

 

So what's the tipping point that made you decide, apparently, that the node you just took was a lost cause, and the better course of action was to go try another one. Or, more bluntly, how come that wasn't you just being a selfish attention whore, wanting to be the solo ninja hero over and over?

Few reasons why I went node hopping in this game. My team and the enemy team were essentially just going from node to node zerging, when they're doing this if you can overlap them and attack the node they just left you're often going to catch them with their pants down as was illustrated when I capped an unguarded mid.

Because my team were frequently defending miles away from the actual node it puts you in a position where if you are defending with them the numbers you have back aren't really helping you at all because they're just fighting in no mans land rather than at the objective so what looks like it should be a 5v5 is actually 1v5 assuming they enemy is attempting to cap.

Also in this game pretty much no one was communicating in chat, this means that if I'm stuck defending snow I cannot actively help anywhere else on the map. I know me leaving snow ultimately led to us losing it but it also allowed me to cap mid and to defend grass stabilising the game at which point I stayed at grass to see out the game.

So TL:DR defending is normally correct but when you're trying to herd cats sometimes you gotta go a bit more proactive in the capping.

but when you're trying to herd cats

lol I haven't heard that expression before, but the mental image is brilliant. I'm stealing that one!

So, this might come off as being subtly critical, but trust me, I'm anything but subtle. I'm trying to understand, not be critical.

 

Normally I'm one of those people who's mantra is to "defend what we have!" Instead of giving up an owned node as lost, I'd be the one rushing in solo hoping to stop their recap, and buy enough time for my next teammate to show up and do the same. Plus if tried to do what you did on my scoundrel, we'll I'm nowhere near as good as you, so I'm sure I would have failed miserably at the solo sap cap thing.

 

So what's the tipping point that made you decide, apparently, that the node you just took was a lost cause, and the better course of action was to go try another one. Or, more bluntly, how come that wasn't you just being a selfish attention whore, wanting to be the solo ninja hero over and over?

Few reasons why I went node hopping in this game. My team and the enemy team were essentially just going from node to node zerging, when they're doing this if you can overlap them and attack the node they just left you're often going to catch them with their pants down as was illustrated when I capped an unguarded mid.

 

Because my team were frequently defending miles away from the actual node it puts you in a position where if you are defending with them the numbers you have back aren't really helping you at all because they're just fighting in no mans land rather than at the objective so what looks like it should be a 5v5 is actually 1v5 assuming they enemy is attempting to cap.

 

Also in this game pretty much no one was communicating in chat, this means that if I'm stuck defending snow I cannot actively help anywhere else on the map. I know me leaving snow ultimately led to us losing it but it also allowed me to cap mid and to defend grass stabilising the game at which point I stayed at grass to see out the game.

 

So TL:DR defending is normally correct but when you're trying to herd cats sometimes you gotta go a bit more proactive in the capping.

That's the key. Being able to read the game and adjust tactics to suit the situation. Sometimes people get tunnel vision and only see one option to a problem. This is when you have to take matters into your own hands or the cats get eaten by the dogs.

Snave demonstrated a few things that most people don't see others doing and often mistake it as bad play or not contributing or being a ninja cap hereo (which some are). You can tell which ones they are because they'll keep rotating even when the other team leave 3 guards and a sap cap "shouldn't be possible". You see them spend 50% or more of the match just hiding and hoping the guys guarding will leave or make a mistake.

By Snave sap capping the first time, he drew their team away from mid, which took the pressure off the mid guys. But by playing smart, staying alive and delaying them for his team to back up, he also made the other team go into a panick. Because most of his team was heading to snow and because he left people there, it was a great time to head to mid to see if they left anyone. He was unlucky he didn't see that Merc or it would have been a triple cap straight away.

But by going back to snow to try again, he made their "whole" team panick this time and they all ran to snow. When you see teams do this, you know that communication and coordination has broken down. That's the time to fully take advantage of it, which was why he disengaged and went back to mid.

Unfortunately lots of people can't read the game and just follow the herd and negate tactical plays like Snaves because they run after them before they have had a chance to do their magic. I don't play my operative that much, I'm probably the least skilled on that class, but I still use similar tactics to Snaves if the situation warrants it and I'm on a more mobile class, Mara, Sorc, Sin, Merc and even my Jugg.

I'll see my team is grinding way hopelessly at mid, I can see that the other node has one guard or even none. I peel away and head there. Most of the time I can 1v1 people and win the cap or I will pull a large enough portion of the enemy team from mid. I can usually tell if I won't be able to comprehensively beat the guard, then I go into delay mode like Snave did, stay alive, los, interrupt, escape, heal etc. this should give the rest of my team a chance to push hard at mid and cap. But most often my team sees me fighting 3-4 guys and decide to follow the enemy instead of attacking mid, this completely ruins the tactic. I often get raged at and told to stop going to the other node and that if I helped at mid they would have it, which was never going to happen or I would have stayed and done that at the start. The best one is when I get told by drones and unimaginative people to uninstall or stop queueing because I am using tactics they can't comprehend. But I should add, if you don't think you can 1v1 the guard or stay alive long enough to guard till your team backs up or delay their team long enough for your guys to get mid, then dont try that tactic.

If you noticed, Snave kept looking at the map and where his team and the enemy team was. He scrolled out or jumped to look over walls, which is how he saw grass was undefended. Lots of people would have just raged and not bothered going there. But Snave instantly went there to defend and then stayed to guard. Having good situational awareness and knowing when to disengage to move to another position are paramount. Being able to count how many enemies are around you also helps. LoL. If there is 1-2 of them and 7 of you, where do you think the rest of their team is. I'm always one of the first to disengage and move.

At the end of the day it comes down to playing for the team and not only for yourself. I can't speak more highly of the way Snave plays, I'm a self confessed fan. I just wish I could play my operative that good.

lol I haven't heard that expression before, but the mental image is brilliant. I'm stealing that one!

It's an oldie, but a goodie

That's the key. Being able to read the game and adjust tactics to suit the situation. Sometimes people get tunnel vision and only see one option to a problem. This is when you have to take matters into your own hands or the cats get eaten by the dogs.

SNIP

Thanks for your kind words! Hopefully you'll enjoy the games I have lined up for more commentary, should be able to get quite a few done next week.

Thanks for the reply Snave (& others ). From your vid comments I had already caught the part about how your team was spread all over fighting. I was thinking "yeah, but my teams do that ALL the time - and if the other team is any good then it's not going to help much to be the only person going off to try to cap"... but I missed the part about how the other side was basically doing the same thing. So, it was really the other team's play that made what you did possible, it seems like.

Or, to boil down everything into really over simplfied "sound byte" statements, 'cause we 'mericans love them ... you're team being disorganized is what made your play necessary. The other team being disorganized is what made your play possible. How's that?

Just makes me rethink my "it's ALWAYS most important to protect what you have to your LAST BREATH!" attitude. So, thanks for making me rethink that.

Thanks for the reply Snave (& others ). From your vid comments I had already caught the part about how your team was spread all over fighting. I was thinking "yeah, but my teams do that ALL the time - and if the other team is any good then it's not going to help much to be the only person going off to try to cap"... but I missed the part about how the other side was basically doing the same thing. So, it was really the other team's play that made what you did possible, it seems like.

 

Or, to boil down everything into really over simplfied "sound byte" statements, 'cause we 'mericans love them ... you're team being disorganized is what made your play necessary. The other team being disorganized is what made your play possible. How's that?

 

Just makes me rethink my "it's ALWAYS most important to protect what you have to your LAST BREATH!" attitude. So, thanks for making me rethink that.

So for easy reference this is essentially the strat i used was to Benny Hill them.

I'll do a video next week, the basic premise is if you can count to 8 you can work out where people are and counter them. Now naturally against a good team that's coordinated that's not going to work out super well without refinement but the basic principle is sound.

So for easy reference this is essentially the strat i used was to Benny Hill them.

 

I'll do a video next week, the basic premise is if you can count to 8 you can work out where people are and counter them. Now naturally against a good team that's coordinated that's not going to work out super well without refinement but the basic principle is sound.

I can't read your posts anymore without hearing them in your voice in my head. On the plus side watching your stream played back is wonderful entertainment while I'm chilling in harby pugs. I love how its nearly 8 hrs long its provided me food for 2 whole nights of gaming.

Edit : that alderan game at

So for easy reference this is essentially the strat i used was to Benny Hill them.

 

I'll do a video next week, the basic premise is if you can count to 8 you can work out where people are and counter them. Now naturally against a good team that's coordinated that's not going to work out super well without refinement but the basic principle is sound.

Please put Benny Hill music too it.. That would make my day 😘

Please put Benny Hill music too it.. That would make my day 😘

I thought the same thing. Made me LoL when I pictured that.

Wow that was good! Maybe one day (I wish) I'll be half as good. I do love the flexibility of concealment operative, although mine's only lv31 now.

People tend to cry out about reading guides, but no guide can help someone read the ever changing situations. You did very good job in that! But, so is the life of support (or is it in this case called a carrier? I'm still puzzled by terms), no one really acknowledges what you do.

But, so is the life of support (or is it in this case called a carrier? I'm still puzzled by terms), no one really acknowledges what you do.

I would call "support" helping others do their jobs. That's how I try to play. I'll help you finish off a priority target with my crappy DPS. I'll peel for and Cc the other guy for the healer. I'll be slowing the enemy in VS while you race ahead to cap. I'll be grabbing the ball in HB and throwing it to you, and then knocking the enemy off the platform, so you can run in for the score unmolested. Or the biggest support role of all, I'll be the solo guard calling inc when I see them coming.

"Carrying" is doing your team's job for them. What Snave did was carry.

I would call "support" helping others do their jobs. That's how I try to play. I'll help you finish off a priority target with my crappy DPS. I'll peel for and Cc the other guy for the healer. I'll be slowing the enemy in VS while you race ahead to cap. I'll be grabbing the ball in HB and throwing it to you, and then knocking the enemy off the platform, so you can run in for the score unmolested. Or the biggest support role of all, I'll be the solo guard calling inc when I see them coming.

 

"Carrying" is doing your team's job for them. What Snave did was carry.

Support is generally exactly that - support. So exactly like Banderal is saying, peels, heals, situational CC and all that good stuff.

Carry is also exactly that. It's referring to someone literally carrying you over the finish line.

Not sure I'd say I 100% carried that team but i certainly helped out a bit

That was fun to watch. Good technique. I didn't think of using jumping like that to see over the lip of the wall. Or keeping an eye on the health of the defender.

Thank you! Honestly blown away by how much traction this video has got, I actually thought the previous GOTW was a lot more entertaining but this one seems much more popular.

Rolodome, auto attack (rifle shot) is a great interrupt ability because it's 30m and hit the target instantly, no travel time. By jumping up over the lip of the wall to pop it off you can sometimes keep them confused as to where you are so they might run in the wrong direction looking for you. It also normally prevents things like whirlwind and flash bang from being used on you as the LOS normally drops as you do.

Should hopefully have another game up tomorrow, it's another civil war but it's got some nice play in there and some really good talking points.

Thank you! Honestly blown away by how much traction this video has got, I actually thought the previous GOTW was a lot more entertaining but this one seems much more popular.

 

Rolodome, auto attack (rifle shot) is a great interrupt ability because it's 30m and hit the target instantly, no travel time. By jumping up over the lip of the wall to pop it off you can sometimes keep them confused as to where you are so they might run in the wrong direction looking for you. It also normally prevents things like whirlwind and flash bang from being used on you as the LOS normally drops as you do.

 

Should hopefully have another game up tomorrow, it's another civil war but it's got some nice play in there and some really good talking points.

Neat, good to know.

Didn't see your first one. The 2nd one was a fun watch. Would be great for people who probably dont even bother to come to the forums

First one is here: Game Of The Week 1

What you say about would be helpful to people who don't come to forums is very true though. I don't think the people who would benefit the most from videos really bother watching them but it's still nice to try and help those who do.