Hi

What I don't understand is people expect me to craft them grade 31 items for free (Including the premades) with mats even if they know that you are practically the only one on the server that can craft a certain item.

Do crafters do free with mats even if they are not in a competitive market many suppliers? Or is this a justification for lower prices by the buyers?

Also how good is the crit rate? Last I heard it was 5%.

It's because of the chance for proc's getting you a free item to sell.

I'm not entirely certain, but base chance is 5%, every 1k affection gets you 1% and then your companion can have a bonus up to 5% on a specific skill.

Most often people will tip a few hundred kay on a top tier item even if they supply the mats.

"free with mats" started a long time ago in a galaxy far far away...Long before SWTOR and even WoW. I remember FwM happening in EQ1. Heck I even engaged in it. It is part of the MMO lexicon. Get used to it.

^^this

Its always been common practice. If you try it out you will realise you often get much more profit from this than setting a price. people will tend to tip much more if they are not told what to pay.

Also, the extra advantage here is that if you get a crit, you get an extra item gratis.

^^this

 

Its always been common practice. If you try it out you will realise you often get much more profit from this than setting a price. people will tend to tip much more if they are not told what to pay.

Also, the extra advantage here is that if you get a crit, you get an extra item gratis.

I would not go that far... In EQ1 when I would setup shop to do buffs, I got shortchanged a LOT when buffs cost materials to cast. In WoW I got burned too many times crafting for tips and stopped altogether. SWTOR may be different, but I am not willing to find out. Getting materials and then selling my finished products on the GTM is far less hassle and I still make a great profit.

Hi

 

What I don't understand is people expect me to craft them grade 31 items for free (Including the premades) with mats even if they know that you are practically the only one on the server that can craft a certain item.

 

Do crafters do free with mats even if they are not in a competitive market many suppliers? Or is this a justification for lower prices by the buyers?

 

Also how good is the crit rate? Last I heard it was 5%.

Oh my word, even when you pay nothing to make something, you still expect payment in return...........greedy *BLEEP*

I have met a lot of crafters that demanded a tip for crafting, when I supplied the materials, sorry for tips are optional, I was going to pay a tip 2k per item made, but he ruined it by demanding it and this is why I wish I could avoid to work with crafters in this game, its just full of greedy sods.

Oh my word, even when you pay nothing to make something, you still expect payment in return...........greedy *BLEEP*

 

I have met a lot of crafters that demanded a tip for crafting, when I supplied the materials, sorry for tips are optional, I was going to pay a tip 2k per item made, but he ruined it by demanding it and this is why I wish I could avoid to work with crafters in this game, its just full of greedy sods.

If you are talking about a 2k tip, I have to assume you aren't talking about end-game items. When you supply materials, you are then paying simply for the service/convenience of not having to go earn the item yourself. If you don't think that is worth anything, then I think you are mistaken about who the "greedy sod" is. Your post reeks of the attitude that crafters somehow owe you their service.

That said, if someone is requiring a "tip," then it would be more appropriate for them to use a different term, as "tip" implies that it is optional. Service Fee, maybe? I don't know, but "tip" is not the appropriate term for a required fee for the service.

Oh my word, even when you pay nothing to make something, you still expect payment in return...........greedy *BLEEP*

 

I have met a lot of crafters that demanded a tip for crafting, when I supplied the materials, sorry for tips are optional, I was going to pay a tip 2k per item made, but he ruined it by demanding it and this is why I wish I could avoid to work with crafters in this game, its just full of greedy sods.

Often times the ''tip'' is to repay some of the investment the crafter put into the skill. Ya sure all they have to do is press "CRAFT'' now, but for a purple item, they likely reverse engineered a lot of items, spent credits, and went through tons of materials, all so you can walk up and get your shiney new item with no fee?

Oh my word, even when you pay nothing to make something, you still expect payment in return...........greedy *BLEEP*

 

I have met a lot of crafters that demanded a tip for crafting, when I supplied the materials, sorry for tips are optional, I was going to pay a tip 2k per item made, but he ruined it by demanding it and this is why I wish I could avoid to work with crafters in this game, its just full of greedy sods.

99.999% of the time when someone crafts for tips or fees, that person has spent a significant amount of time and credits to acquire the schematic necessary to craft that item. Most would say that is worth something.

If you are talking about a 2k tip, I have to assume you aren't talking about end-game items. When you supply materials, you are then paying simply for the service/convenience of not having to go earn the item yourself. If you don't think that is worth anything, then I think you are mistaken about who the "greedy sod" is. Your post reeks of the attitude that crafters somehow owe you their service.

 

That said, if someone is requiring a "tip," then it would be more appropriate for them to use a different term, as "tip" implies that it is optional. Service Fee, maybe? I don't know, but "tip" is not the appropriate term for a required fee for the service.

Let's not get started on this please. It's semantics: "tip" or "fee." Yes, strictly speaking a "tip" is optional and a "fee" is not, but in the world of MMOs both are payment for services rendered.

The parties in question are both wrong in that they did not clarify the transaction before it occurred. The crafter/seller should specify an amount of credits if that is what they want; if they fail to specify a "fee" and get less than what they wanted it is their own fault. The buyer should state up front what they are willing to offer in return for the seller/crafter services; if they fail to specify what they are willing to offer ahead of time and the seller wants more then the buyer is at fault.

And this is reason #1 why I got out of the face-to-face crafting market.

Oh my word, even when you pay nothing to make something, you still expect payment in return...........greedy *BLEEP*

 

I have met a lot of crafters that demanded a tip for crafting, when I supplied the materials, sorry for tips are optional, I was going to pay a tip 2k per item made, but he ruined it by demanding it and this is why I wish I could avoid to work with crafters in this game, its just full of greedy sods.

Your are looking at this from too narrow a view. I craft for mats on my server, but have no problem with people charging a fee for a few reasons.

1.My biggest argument for people charging what they want is they put in the time and effort to go and learn the schematic. Despite what people may think, many times learning schematics costs a large amount of time and comms.

2.They learned it, not you. If you have such a moral conundrum with paying to get high end gear, then dont pay! Everyone is capable of leveling a crafter and learning a schematic, if you dont like how someone is offering their services, go learn the item, and you can craft it for free!

3. Not a huge thing, but it does occupy a companion. I know my comps are always running missions to supply me stuff for our raids, so crafting others gear for no guarenteed $ takes away from my ability to be prepared for a raid.

Oh my word, even when you pay nothing to make something, you still expect payment in return...........greedy *BLEEP*

 

I have met a lot of crafters that demanded a tip for crafting, when I supplied the materials, sorry for tips are optional, I was going to pay a tip 2k per item made, but he ruined it by demanding it and this is why I wish I could avoid to work with crafters in this game, its just full of greedy sods.

If you are don't like working with crafters then do it yourself. I make things for my guild all the time without charging or even requiring the mats but they are my friends and my guild mates.

I will at times craft things for others with mats but most of them have been polite about it and don't act like I owe it to them to craft it.

Hi

 

What I don't understand is people expect me to craft them grade 31 items for free (Including the premades) with mats even if they know that you are practically the only one on the server that can craft a certain item.

 

Do crafters do free with mats even if they are not in a competitive market many suppliers? Or is this a justification for lower prices by the buyers?

I can answer this for you:

1. You're overcharging on our server. Like literally, the mats+your requested fee > GTN often. FYI, you are known as "The guy who transfered servers thinking he could make billions ripping people off". Also: You're not the only one who can craft them. There's more than you think on both the Imp and Pub side.

2. Talking to several of the "Free with mats" people on our server - they still make them, sell them on the GTN. And keep crits when they make the "FWM" and make money off that. They're rolling in millions.

3. Over the years, MMOs have become an entitlement riddled, instant gratification QQ fest. People don't care about how much money you've spent, or time you've spent into being able to make the product. Until this is enforced as wrong, it's going to stay that way.

4. Like the rest of the market flood, eventually there will be so many of these on the GTN they will sell for mats or less (Operate at a loss with the GTN tax). A good chunk of the people with the money to buy this stuff in bulk do know this, and will just wait or pay in mats (And usually, tip for your time. But not the prices you've been asking.)

If there were a more complex crafting system involved, I would pay fees, a commission if you will, but don't demand it, because you didn't actually do anything except click a button once, and your companion makes it for you.

In EQ2 I didn't mind tipping on items people crafted, mainly becaus no one demanded a "tip" (fee) and the crafting system was like a mini game that took time and effort.

I'm sorry, good for you that you learned the schematic, but don't try to rip people off with it. Harbinger Crafters, you know who you are. 100k tip required my arse. It's not a tip, that's a fee.

In my eyes, mats are just fine, especially if you have premises, 10% chance to crit, that's pretty nice. So what if you don't, you can make another and sell it on gtn.

I don't see the issue.

If because you didn't actually do anything except click a button once

Just because one click is as far as you can see, don't assume that one click is all it takes. There are countless hours and stacks of creds behind that one click you see. Until you have lost a week's worth of work and well over a million credits just to RE items and still not have the schematic you need, try not to be so short sighted as to assume all it ever takes is a single click.

Oh my word, even when you pay nothing to make something, you still expect payment in return...........greedy *BLEEP*

 

I have met a lot of crafters that demanded a tip for crafting, when I supplied the materials, sorry for tips are optional, I was going to pay a tip 2k per item made, but he ruined it by demanding it and this is why I wish I could avoid to work with crafters in this game, its just full of greedy sods.

lolwut

2k per item as tip ? that won't get me to makeb to farm nodes for more mats....

anyway, what kind of items are you talking about ? arkanian/undeworld stuff ? lowbie stuff ? crafts which a crit means another item ?

Just because one click is as far as you can see, don't assume that one click is all it takes. There are countless hours and stacks of creds behind that one click you see. Until you have lost a week's worth of work and well over a million credits just to RE items and still not have the schematic you need, try not to be so short sighted as to assume all it ever takes is a single click.

errmm.. i seriously doubt someone actually thinks that is "just a single click". that's just their way of trying to demean other people's effort and work so they feel outraged by prices to get something they clearly dont want or cant work for....

I have learned over the years and from several mmos to NEVER again advertise I can make x item in chat. too many players just don't read your terms and get butt hurt when the item is crafted.

I just craft for guildies and sell such on the gtn. I don't need the drama as I am here to relax and play a game. not deal with some player sitting on millions of credits thinking everything is negotiable.

I have learned over the years and from several mmos to NEVER again advertise I can make x item in chat. too many players just don't read your terms and get butt hurt when the item is crafted.

 

I just craft for guildies and sell such on the gtn. I don't need the drama as I am here to relax and play a game. not deal with some player sitting on millions of credits thinking everything is negotiable.

swtor is even worse. Get a nice rare scheme, put the crafted on the gtn, get tons of whispers and mails asking you to craft for mats. Nope. I don't do it. That 1 click these people are talking about, cost me a weapon drop in a operation. Not to mention I had to get lucky and get the same drop a couple times just for the successful RE. I went without an upgrade. Not one week but multiple. And now you want my good for free? What makes people think they are so entitled to this for free? One easy click my butt. The people on here complaining about greedy crafters can go take a hike.

I wish not advertising would save us from this behavior.

swtor is even worse. Get a nice rare scheme, put the crafted on the gtn, get tons of whispers and mails asking you to craft for mats. Nope. I don't do it. That 1 click these people are talking about, cost me a weapon drop in a operation. Not to mention I had to get lucky and get the same drop a couple times just for the successful RE. I went without an upgrade. Not one week but multiple. And now you want my good for free? What makes people think they are so entitled to this for free? One easy click my butt. The people on here complaining about greedy crafters can go take a hike.

 

I wish not advertising would save us from this behavior.

First, you can do business whatever way you like. No one's disputing that. But of course people don't want to pay a fee/tip. They know you keep the crits, which is a another item for "free". That's what they give to you when they give the mats, a chance to get an item for you for "free".

And as you well know, crafters have been doing hundreds of millions crafting for "free". Funny how that works.

99.999% of the time when someone crafts for tips or fees, that person has spent a significant amount of time and credits to acquire the schematic necessary to craft that item. Most would say that is worth something.

Which I am sure, has been made back 100x by overcharging for items like majority of the crafters tend to do.

Which I am sure, has been made back 100x by overcharging for items like majority of the crafters tend to do.

If you intend to sell items with your crafting skills, it's an investment. Your own time, and credits are expended in order to reap higher dividends later. I don't know anyone who takes a lot of time working on their crew skills in the hopes of just breaking even.

Overcharging is also easily countered by ''not buying''. If the price is too high, and the majority of players think so too...the items will just sit on gtn. Eventually the price comes down to one where crafters can sell regularly.

My motto is generally ''When in doubt, list for high price''. Why not? IF the item doesn't sell, I get my deposit back anyways. There is no risk involved. If I make something that takes 2 mythra, 4 turadium to craft, and someone gave me the choice to sell it for 15k, or 50k...guess which one I would choose.

If there weren't crit results you could see justification for fees. With duplicate crit results, it is really greedy to expect a fee on top of the crit results you put on the gtn (which you get from someone else's time and effort from their mats).

People will be doing content anyway, the guy who RE'd 7 barrels without taking the drop himself? well, more fool your guild for letting you do that.

Let's not get started on this please. It's semantics: "tip" or "fee." Yes, strictly speaking a "tip" is optional and a "fee" is not, but in the world of MMOs both are payment for services rendered..

I never understand this sort of comment. It's not "semantics". The two words have different meanings and connotations so it's pertinent to use the one that refers to the thing you actually mean to refer to.

Mmm...

Not sure how crafting is done at SWTOR, but had done so in so many other MMORPGs and eventually concluded it was not worth the effort and expense to pursue, unless you wanted to ensure availability for your alts and friends, so for the first time, I did not even bothered to try for SWTOR.

But when I was trying to develop my skill up, I would be happy to craft for free, if materials were provided, for the player was helping me with my education expenses. Once I have reached the pinnacle of crafting, and I was open for business, I would try to craft stuff for profit but found it was nearly impossible. Partly because players could acqurie through adventuring for free, and they are in general too cheap to want to pay up. I remember having an argument with somebody who wanted me to make them a level 50 critical bow, and I took him to the market so he could add the price for the materials to make one, and still would not want to pay me enough to break even (even if I succeded in the first try), he even asked me, if I went out on my alts and collected materials as I played, and thus I should not charge him for materials! Obviously I refused to make the bow for him, and wrote his name to make sure I never dealt with him ever again.

As a rule of thumb, when I did try to make money, I would take the average "market" cost of the ingredients needed to construct it and added 10% as a mark-up, which frankly is quite cheap, but ironically seldom sold any items at such price.

In general I feel sorry for the crafters in any game, to include this one. I have felt the developers have not thought through out the crafting environment, and thus crafting is often hurt by a very miser population. I had always felt that if all items were acquirable with credits, then crafters could undercut the game vendors and do make a living out of it. But that in itself would bring other issues as having the develoeprs cap the potential profits a crafter could make, or a player from acquiring a rare drop and trying to sell it.

Sue