This is going to be a slightly different thread than the normal threads about people being jerks, this is about people that actually are helpful or at least are trying to be helpful. While doing Section X and the Gree stuff on Ilum, I have seen a few people aggro, not sure purposely or accidently, more than they seem to be able to handle. This presents a dilemma when I am on my sawbones, because when I am playing my Shadow or Sentient I often purposely get myself in those situations to test myself and I really don’t want help. However, on my sawbones I don’t want anyone, but the enemies, to die anywhere near me. So I will usually watch the fight, ready to drop a heal if the fight looks like a lost cause.

 

My question is this bad etiquette? Am I breaking some MMO rule? Been playing this since beta, but I still haven’t figured this one out.

 

Just FYI in the PVP area of Ilum, I will not heal you no matter what if you are not in my group. Haven't had problem with Imps there, but have had republic scum attack me over and over.

Edited February 22, 2013 by mikebevo

I do pretty much the same on my seer, if I see someone in trouble I'll chuck a heal their way.

 

Some MMO games have had issues with this, as "helping" causes a loss of XP. LotRO is (mostly) like this, causing much wailing and gnashing of teeth on their forums about notwanthelpthankyouverymuch as it messes up their XP. Unless they were about to die, in which case they wanted the help... but you have to telepathically deduce if they have all their CDs and can survive on 1 hp long enough to kill the mob.

 

This game, I've yet to have anyone complain because I've helped them in a fight, only had thanks.

 

So the answer is that is varies from game to game, depending how the particular MMO is set up. For SWTOR it's fine, I think and for LotRO (as another example) it's ok only in certain circumstances.

 

The only Imp I've attacked on Ilum was the one who used force leap to attack every set of mobs I was about to hit myself. On the 4th time, him having then caught in my AOE and flagged me, I chased the irritating little snot down and taught him a lesson about not stealing other people's toys.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Tromador

I've personally only done it if the other player looks like they're in dire straits.

 

If the companion has died, the player is <10% and the mob is >50% I heal them.

no idea if its bad etiquette, but i compulsively runby buff people and if I can heal - throw them heals. I rarely help kill things though, unless its a spawn I'm waiting for and helping with a kill, means I can get my own spawn faster.

I give unsolicited help as well on my healers. I use the same rule of thumb that's already been mentioned; only if it looks like they are going to wipe or if they are 'newish' players. You know the one's, they are spamming their basic attack over and over again. I almost want to whisper to these players but I don't as I'm a bit self conscience that they'll be offended that I'm 'telling them how to play'. Otherwise I just buff them and go.

 

I'll occasionally help when on a tank or DPS toon but only after they do more damage to the NPC so I don't end up getting credit for the kill, I could see that potentially pissing someone off.

but i compulsively runby buff people

I think the only reason I have 4 different classes leveled was to become a buff master. I love playing new toons and running around buffing f2p players with all four buffs. Espeically loved doing it while pipe jumping doing the datacrons on Coruscant. People would look all around trying to figure out who buffed them. When they looked like they were about to look up. I would stealth.

I like to help players that look like they are struggling, esp on my healer.

 

There are several bosses ingame that can be helped with outside help and it does not hurt or "steal" the objective. For example, there is a corellia black hole mission (republic side) where you have to kill the wimpy boss Quick-Hands Quarl, usually theres several players helping one player kill this npc. Occasionally, there will be that one player that swears that helping is stealing that npc. There are several npc like this in game. The "key to decryption" boss droid in Section X is another example. Unfortunately not enough players understand this, and scream at you for "helping", but i think most players know, and usually welcome the help, with either dps or heals.

i help people too if it looks like they're having a bunch of trouble. doesn't matter which toon i'm on. i usually get a /ty or a /bow when i do so. never had anyone get mad. the F2P players probably appreciate it a lot as they have limited medical droids.

Well... there's this guy who hates it if people help him out

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=594525

 

Although it stemmed from a mistaken belief that when someone helps him they are taking his XP and loot. *sigh* This is not the case in SWTOR - if you tag a mob the XP and loot is yours.

 

I help people - heal or kill - had a lot of thanks and noone getting mad yet. I imagine people who get mad over being helped with a mob are not very many in number and I personally don't possess the telepathic ability to determine who these people are.

I get annoyed when others jump into the middle of the fight because they tend to break any and all CC, and also make it harder to select any given target because of the sea of nameplates. This situation is particularly bad during Darkness on Ilum (and similar encounters) when we call the bad-guys out, CC and start our kill order, then have a gang-bang of other players leap in to "help."

 

I know they are doing this in order to speed the encounter along so they can get their turn, and that isn't a problem. The problem is that they don't speed up the encounter for the most part because they are just bad at playing their class (probably because they've always had people leap in and "help" them as well). In the worst of cases they have even aggro'd other mobs in the area and extended the encounter. When this happens, my group just does an aggro dump and leaves. We still get credit for the fight and we don't have to worry about the destructive good Samaritan.

 

I realize people are just wanting to help (and others are too selfish to actually wait for an encounter to finish), but sometimes we just want the challenge of the fight without worrying about the chaos other players create. I like my war nice and tidy, dang-it!

 

I help people - heal or kill - had a lot of thanks and noone getting mad yet. I imagine people who get mad over being helped with a mob are not very many in number and I personally don't possess the telepathic ability to determine who these people are.

 

So why do it? Honest question for everyone who likes to help. If the person(s) you are trying to help isn't in any danger, and you can't tell if your help would be appreciated or not, then what's the motivation?

 

I'm thinking maybe there should be an icon above a player's head that notifies "NOT looking for group" so the people who like to help can focus on the people who would appreciate it more, and so you can leave the players like me alone.

A true Sith would watch him die...and laugh

So why do it? Honest question for everyone who likes to help. If the person(s) you are trying to help isn't in any danger, and you can't tell if your help would be appreciated or not, then what's the motivation?

 

Again, based off some of the responses and my own personal gauge you should only give unsolicited help if the player looks like he's going to lose the fight and/or die. Other forms of helping may be that guy that's running from two mobs he accidentally aggroed. I'll think nothing of throwing an aoe taunt so they stop chasing him.

 

Though funny enough I was 'helped' just yesterday when I really didn't need it. Both my companion and I hardly had a scratch on us and the boss was around half health. Some warrior still came charging in anyway, whatev. I couldn't help but lol and think of this thread. That would have been a situation to not bother helping.

 

One question I do have about loot/xp stealing. I'm almost positive there is a point where you can grab the xp from someone else if you end up doing more damage to the npc than the other guy. I thought if it remains grey, they have it. If it turns red, you got it. I see other's saying you can't steal xp once someone else engages but I don't think that's accurate, but I'm not 100 percent sure myself.

So why do it? Honest question for everyone who likes to help. If the person(s) you are trying to help isn't in any danger, and you can't tell if your help would be appreciated or not, then what's the motivation?

 

 

I jump in on other people's boss mobs for one of three reasons.

 

1. They're about to get rolled. However, your explanation (isn't in any danger) doesn't bring this reason into play.

2. I toss them a group invite, then jump in, if they're killing a group objective based mob when I'm at the same step in the quest.

3. They're finishing off the "Final Stage" bonus boss of a bonus quest/heroic, and I have to/should wait for theirs to die before I can summon my own (something requires a click, for example). Of course, many people (thinking of the H2 on DK that requires you to fight three waves of adds at the bomb placement) don't bother for #3, so I wind up having to fight six or sometimes seven waves of enemies because people just expect groups/others to kill their own mobs..

I get annoyed when others jump into the middle of the fight because they tend to break any and all CC, and also make it harder to select any given target because of the sea of nameplates. This situation is particularly bad during Darkness on Ilum (and similar encounters) when we call the bad-guys out, CC and start our kill order, then have a gang-bang of other players leap in to "help.".

When playing my Sentinel or Shadow, I tend to feel the same way. I don't really want help. Don't get upset if I get it, but just don't want it. However, when I get it I use it to my advantage because in operations I have to deal with the same sea of nameplates to target the enemy, so this is good practice. Now on my sawbones or healer operative, people want to help kill stuff, I will take it.

 

Yesterday I was doing a area quest in Section X on my shadow, got to the final boss, and got too full of myself, didn’t heal before starting the encounter. Kept the dps companion out instead of switching to tank or healer and then the phone rang just as I started. Thankfully a group of four showed up when the bot was still at 30% and I was at about 10% and they finished the bot off for me.

 

One of the major things people can do to help others is in section x during The Dread Guard is to CC or kill the Released Sith Lords walking around when people are killing the bonus boss. I usually make sure they are both dead before I start, but I have seen a many of a wipe there of players not paying attention to their surroundings. I see someone doing it, I don’t watch them any longer, I go to the area between the two platforms and CC or kill the sith lord walking up behind them. Occasionally I get a thank you, but most of the time I doubt they even know I was there, since they were not paying attention to that danger in the first place.

Edited February 25, 2013 by mikebevo

So why do it? Honest question for everyone who likes to help.

 

Because whatbrick the majority of us would welcome any help to get the tedious, repetitive, grind of dailies done as fast as possible.

We have very little to prove to that mob over there.

It's the 50th time we're killing this mob - it's not going to get any fancier or more interesting.

We aren't doing this daily because of the innovative types of mobs and tactics that it entails.

 

Most people I know or bump into just want to finish the dailies as fast as they can and move on - and anything that can speed up the tedium is welcomed.

I especially appreciate help on my healer since she takes soooo long to kill compared to when she's DPS specced.

It promotes a sense of community - not just people who exist in the same space at the same time watching someone else without ever interacting with them.

I have made several friends through just such help in dailies.

 

Are there people who want to be responsible for squeezing every last bit of HP from each member of a trash mob once they have tagged it for XP and loot during dailies?

Obviously yes, since you posted.

 

I have a niggling suspicion that you're unfortunately in the minority.

The chances are, when well-meaning people throw a rock at a mob that's already been tagged, it's considered helping.

 

Not saying that makes your desire invalid though. Not at all.

But it is just as valid as people who would prefer not to group up and would be perfectly happy if someone was to help them kill trash mobs faster on their 100th run of "Area mission X kill 15 mobs" by throwing a rock here or there.

 

Therefore isn't it better to err in favor of helping the majority?

 

Also why not make your desires known? I was trying to solo a champion droid once and a sage came to help me by healing me. Unwelcome help at this point since it is contrary to what I was trying to do. And it meant that I have to reset the mob and my timer and start again. That's fine though. How is she supposed to know? So I told her and gen chat what I was trying to do and proceeded with no unwelcome help at all.

 

There is a guy on my server who spams for hours on general chat trying to form groups for various ops and FPs because he wants to do "all sidequests" and kill every single mob in there. From the sheer number of hours he spams, and the sheer number of people who rage quit his groups then come and rage in general chat that he wanted to kill every single mob, we can assume that it's not a very popular way of playing.

I jump in on other people's boss mobs for one of three reasons.

 

1. They're about to get rolled. However, your explanation (isn't in any danger) doesn't bring this reason into play.

2. I toss them a group invite, then jump in, if they're killing a group objective based mob when I'm at the same step in the quest.

3. They're finishing off the "Final Stage" bonus boss of a bonus quest/heroic, and I have to/should wait for theirs to die before I can summon my own (something requires a click, for example). Of course, many people (thinking of the H2 on DK that requires you to fight three waves of adds at the bomb placement) don't bother for #3, so I wind up having to fight six or sometimes seven waves of enemies because people just expect groups/others to kill their own mobs..

 

This is a good way of handling these situations, unfortunately for this idea I already travel in a group so any other invites do not register. Still a good idea, though.

 

When playing my Sentinel or Shadow, I tend to feel the same way. I don't really want help. Don't get upset if I get it, but just don't want it. However, when I get it I use it to my advantage because in operations I have to deal with the same sea of nameplates to target the enemy, so this is good practice. Now on my sawbones or healer operative, people want to help kill stuff, I will take it.

 

Yesterday I was doing a area quest in Section X on my shadow, got to the final boss, and got too full of myself, didn’t heal before starting the encounter. Kept the dps companion out instead of switching to tank or healer and then the phone rang just as I started. Thankfully a group of four showed up when the bot was still at 30% and I was at about 10% and they finished the bot off for me.

 

One of the major things people can do to help others is in section x during The Dread Guard is to CC or kill the Released Sith Lords walking around when people are killing the bonus boss. I usually make sure they are both dead before I start, but I have seen a many of a wipe there of players not paying attention to their surroundings. I see someone doing it, I don’t watch them any longer, I go to the area between the two platforms and CC or kill the sith lord walking up behind them. Occasionally I get a thank you, but most of the time I doubt they even know I was there, since they were not paying attention to that danger in the first place.

 

Getting used to a gaggle of nameplates is good practice for operations, true. However, the difference is that every member in the operations group is a known quantity and using focus target and target-of-target can be planned.

 

The portion in bold is a type of help that I don't mind. While my self-awareness is usually pretty good, it sometimes fails and random adds occur, so any help in culling them will get a silent thumbs-up.

 

--snipped--

 

So you want to help others in order to get through your dailies quicker, or to help them get through them quicker? Both? If it's just one person then I can, maybe, understand a bit more. If it's a group, however, then those daily mobs aren't going to die any faster. Regardless, asking to see if they want help may be a better option. Course, this would be easier if we had chat bubbles.

 

Running dailies at this point is kind of like having a casual conversation between my group and the mobs, and having random people jump in at any given time to offer assistance is like having a stranger interrupt that conversation. We aren't discussing anything important, but the uninvited extras can get annoying. Nothing to grind teeth over, but the eyes do start to roll a bit.

So why do it? Honest question for everyone who likes to help. If the person(s) you are trying to help isn't in any danger, and you can't tell if your help would be appreciated or not, then what's the motivation?

Helping is enjoyable to me. <shrug> It makes me happy to have made someone else's life a little easier. That said, if someone would prefer no help, a quick 'I'm good, thanks' is perfectly fine, and I'll be on my way. Generally, I only lend a hand if they look like they're struggling, but I don't overthink it much. I've only had one person in years of playing ever ask me not to help, cause they were attempting to solo a boss.

 

I did see a full-on rager in general on Voss one day because a guy had died to an elite and another player had been nearby and hadn't helped. Thought that was a little odd. Help isn't mandated. As far as I'm concerned, it's a nice thing to do, but it's certainly not required.

On my healer I will habitually tend to throw out heals and a buff to almost anyone I happen to pass by, even if they're clearly not in real danger. Gotten the occasional thank you and return buff, never actually had someone complain.

 

Though, I'm probably a little too stuck in the healer mindset, because when I'm on a DPS toon I rarely intervene even when someone is clearly getting whomped, because the only thing that comes to mind is, "I have no heals, there's nothing I can do!". There's usually a delay in realizing that I could probably save them if I run up and help kill whatever it is.

I guess it would depend really...

 

I've been leveling lowbies and someone will run by me, aggroing like 3 separate mobs of like 3 to get to something for a quest. i just kind of stand there like: "o.o?!" cuz I'm not in a hurry in the least and would have let them go first ... but I don't help people that do that. Although, I don't get complain whispers either....

 

Otherwise, sometimes people accidentally get in over their head (killing one mob and another one respawns), and I will help them out if I am on my healer or they/their companion are near death.

Maybe I was being a *****, but during the Gree event, we were waiting for the heroic 4. We saw a guy "accidentally" solo agro the pylon guardian so we decided to help him. Then he went and clicked the panel so we helped him out. When he clicked the panel again and then deliberately agro'd the pylon guardian while we helped him wih the mob, we realized that he was a leech and instead of looking for a group he expected us to "help" him finish the heroic. I told my group to stop attacking the pylon guardian, and as the tank I dragged the guardian away so it would reset. The leech wound up getting the guardian back at 100% health and needless to say he died very quickly without our "help". I don't mind helping (I usually drop the drive by buffs or heals on people), but when people are idiots, I let them reap what they sow.

If i see a player in trouble in combat v npcs i will always help them. if it looks like its 50/50 and both health are quite low ill throw a little something like freeze on npc or guard on player.

 

Most just respond with thanks or a /bow but only takes less than a minute to help out someone else and could save thier mission without them being killed.

 

If im heading into missions like rescue drall engineers in black hole and someone else is entering at the same time ill always send them an invite so we both get the mission unlocks etc

Edited February 26, 2013 by Ziso

I always looked at is as this person is my team mate, or on my side, why not lend a hand. Your help should be appreciated no matter the situation. Help them kill their mob, buff them and be on your way. From time to time, I also will help out a dirty Imp. I really enjoyed this in Guild Wars 2, because not only are you helping, but you are also getting exp and loot from who you are helping kill and everyone is happy. I wish there were group events in TOR that would bring a lot of people together for a short time while questing. Lend a hand, why not make the next guys/gals day a little brighter/easier.

I am quite torn about this.

I used to play a game, where attacking other players' monsters was strictily forbidden since you would take exp (and in case of most dmg also the loot) away fromt hem. Healing was okay, though. So I wasn't used to supporting people in their fights and just went by.

One day, some player on Alderan insulted me for not helping him out which I found very rude as I regard helping an optional (nice) choice. Usually, it's his own responsibility what enemy he takes on.

 

Personally, I don't really like being helped out (except maybe for boss fights). This may come from being used not to be helped.

I know that once you hit an enemy it becomes grey for everyone else but when I encounter a group of foes, I don't always hit all of them at once. So if someone jumps in to help me, he may consequently take loot, exp and/or kills away from me.

 

I don't mind being healed though.

 

Additionally, there may be times at which players engage in hard fights to test their limits... I don't want to take that away from anyone.

I find it hard to decide whether a player actually wants help or not. So if it seems like they're losing I heal them and if it's a daily or it seems like they don't mind me helping them, I attack their enemy as well.

But I see no point in joining every trash fight (or being helped in a trash fight - unless a player really is about to die).

Maybe I was being a *****, but during the Gree event, we were waiting for the heroic 4. We saw a guy "accidentally" solo agro the pylon guardian so we decided to help him. Then he went and clicked the panel so we helped him out. When he clicked the panel again and then deliberately agro'd the pylon guardian while we helped him wih the mob, we realized that he was a leech and instead of looking for a group he expected us to "help" him finish the heroic. I told my group to stop attacking the pylon guardian, and as the tank I dragged the guardian away so it would reset. The leech wound up getting the guardian back at 100% health and needless to say he died very quickly without our "help". I don't mind helping (I usually drop the drive by buffs or heals on people), but when people are idiots, I let them reap what they sow.

 

 

Lol I was doing this a lot on the gree event me, and my m8 i play with can easily 2 man the guardian with our companions. so we'd kill the boss, do a couple of the "program" droids from the panel while the boss is respawning and we'd be on our way. there were times another group would come in and click the panel while we were fighting the boss. so my way of reminding them who was using the plyon at the time was to tank the boss into the group . they would either get killed or help to kill the boss from getting killed by the boss themselves. That would teach them quick.

 

The other thing is that people i don't think realize the aggro mechanic and the xp, loot allocation in this game very well. Once you or a group member damages any member of that mob they are locked to you, or if the npc is summoned by clicking on a terminal that target and loot is yours no matter who kill it. there is no way to steal the target, the aggro yes but not the credit. I have gotten into conversations with other people who don't understand that and are a bit confused. Once they realize the situation you're ok.

 

i sometimes like to try activities with different companions or different gear combinations just to see how they work. So I don't welcome the help but i doesn't really bother me either though.

Lol I was doing this a lot on the gree event me, and my m8 i play with can easily 2 man the guardian with our companions. so we'd kill the boss, do a couple of the "program" droids from the panel while the boss is respawning and we'd be on our way. there were times another group would come in and click the panel while we were fighting the boss. so my way of reminding them who was using the plyon at the time was to tank the boss into the group . they would either get killed or help to kill the boss from getting killed by the boss themselves. That would teach them quick.

 

You don't own the pylon. There are limited pylons and many, many groups - you expect them to wait while you kill three guardians and six mob packs (together with the individual spawn times)? Three groups can quite easily be completing the quest at one pylon simultaneously without tripping over each other much.