You first.

 

Ratajack has helped solidify the argument against AC change, making many valid points and presenting logical arguments.....

 

...you, on the other hand...well, let's just say there's more than a bit of irony in your post and leave it at that.

 

Funny.. On countless occasions Ratajack and myself have said the exact same thing.. You have even accused him twice of throwing in with me.. So his posts solidify an argument and mine are ironic?? Wow.. I know you dislike me for calling you out on stuff.. But hey.. At least I am honest..

....At least I am honest..

 

...more irony. You just don't know how to stop iceskating uphill, do you.

 

I can't really say I dislike you personally MajikMyst...I don't know you. I know nothing about you. However, your posting style and opinions...well.

 

Let's just say I would guess I am not likely the only one that finds that post ironic.

 

 

 

Getting back on topic, I will post the summary again if folks think they want to continue this discussion.

Edited September 1, 2013 by LordArtemis

necro thread ... yummy

 

I suggest as penalty for changing the advanced class = rollback of your toon to level 10.

 

Unlimited switching, with the level 10 reset! I support this in full. People get to keep toys and knicknacks and titles.

Unlimited switching, with the level 10 reset! I support this in full. People get to keep toys and knicknacks and titles.

 

One more adiadem, you do not get a chance to gain alternate class titles. What you have you are stuck with.

 

Also, you DO lose your valor and valor based titles. You earned those as a specific class, you don't get to keep them as a new class.

Ok, well, it looks like this is back on, so I'll post the list in it's most recent form.

 

Current list, pros and cons as reported by participants.

 

 

Option 1

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 3

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 4

 

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 7

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - Must level one character to max level in an AC to unlock legacy ability to switch AC for that class - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 8

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - maximum 8 changes per account, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

Option 9

 

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum number of changes - must change at AC trainers on fleet - 1 Week cooldown - Option for AC change unlocked as Character Perk for 600 cartel Coins (or 1.5 million credits) - Each subsequent AC change costs 40 cartel coins (or 100,000 credits).

 

Option 10

 

Level 40 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

 

 

Option 11

 

No AC change allowed.

 

 

 

And this is the pro and con list as it stands right now. It is certainly open for more additions or corrections.

 

 

PROS

 

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.

2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.

3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.

4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.

 

CONS

 

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.

2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.

3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.

4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.

5) This will likely further demean AC choice.

6) Could cause FOTM issues.

7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.

 

 

I am willing to begrudgingly support option 1, option 7 but would prefer option 11. The idea of option 7 has some appeal...you have to level an AC to max level to get a legacy unlock you can use to switch to that AC inside the class for another character account wide. That still give AC meaning IMO.

 

I still prefer no AC change, but I'm somewhat willing to support 1 and 7. I personally do not feel option 10 is a good idea as I think it would possibly have a negative impact on the game, more likely than an early change.

 

I would also add what I would like to see happen with respect to AC.

 

1) Bioware would come out and publicly state, in no uncertain terms, that AC IS YOUR CLASS.

 

2) Make AC choice mandatory at level 10, move all abilities under the AC heading in the abilities pane and remove the base class header, move all trainable abilities from that point forward under the AC header on the trainer.

 

3) Remove all references in the game to your base class that can be removed once you choose your AC.

 

4) Add a small quest line at max level that is AC specific, where they refer to your AC directly.

 

IMO this would make the choice more meaningful.

 

I do think, however, that Dual Spec would be fine.

 

Dual spec - Allowed when you choose your spec onward, but open use is only allowed after you conclude your class story.

 

Before your story conclusion dual spec would be restricted to use inside heroics, flashpoints, operations and warzones UNLESS the groupfinder tool allows you a free spec swap while qued to fill missing roles. It would be a permanent unlock feature, allowing you to save a particular setup...it saves point allocation and bar locations of specials but not gear setup. it would have a one hour cooldown, and would cost either EC or CC.

 

After conclusion of your storyline you are unlocked to spec swap any time you wish.

 

This does not remove the cost of respecing...only saves the spec loadouts, positions of abilities on action bars, etc....you can still choose to forgo the dual spec route and manually redeploy your points and abilities.

Unlimited switching, with the level 10 reset! I support this in full. People get to keep toys and knicknacks and titles.

 

All for that, here!

 

One more adiadem, you do not get a chance to gain alternate class titles. What you have you are stuck with.

 

Also, you DO lose your valor and valor based titles. You earned those as a specific class, you don't get to keep them as a new class.

 

Ehm... alternate class titles? You mean like Sniper Examplus, Operative Examplus? Because those were removed a long time ago I believe!

 

And I'm not at all bothered about valor and valor titles. Makes the relevelling more fun!

 

3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.

 

THAT! Is what I've been saying all along! I just want to keep all of my armor shells, speeders, crystals, titles and legacy perks I paid out the wazoo for!

 

2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.

 

There was that news interview where the guy did say they were talking seriously about it... let's hope they don't go overboard and venture into the territory of "you want AC changes? take as many as you want!". I'm comfortable with one.

 

5) This will likely further demean AC choice.

 

Only slightly.

 

I will ask another question, which I hope will be solved creatively...

 

What do we do about companions?

 

I'm okay with them being locked at the affection we left them off with until we hit the level we earnt them at with the previous AC. If push comes to shove, I'm willing to go with a full affection reset.

 

4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.

 

This I will agree with. I'm not okay with being able to change AC in a snap so you can do funtime raids woo as a healer or tank rather than a Dime a Dozen DPS. That would undermine what AC change is about.

That would undermine what AC change is about.

 

News flash.. There is no AC change.. Bioware has stated they do not want a single character to be able to both tank and heal.. There most likely will never be AC change.. The game says your AC choice is permanent.. So there is nothing to undermine.. The only thing this debate undermines is the obvious and common sense..

News flash.. There is no AC change.. Bioware has stated they do not want a single character to be able to both tank and heal.. There most likely will never be AC change.. The game says your AC choice is permanent.. So there is nothing to undermine.. The only thing this debate undermines is the obvious and common sense..

 

Thank you for agreeing with me in the bolded area and obviously not reading all that I said.

 

In the post, I was AGAINST people tanking and healing between flashpoints. Switching permanently from a tank to a healer? No chance of return? What's the problem in that?

 

EDIT: Okay, although I'm still a big proponent of AC change, since BioWare takes a bit of time to add something in, I'll level an Op anyways. That way Ratajack is happy I put the effort in (not a jab at you, btw, I assume effort is kind of what makes you happy) and I'm happy that I can finally RP as an Imperial Agent rather than xXxIMPYSNIPZZZ420xXx.

Edited September 1, 2013 by nymusiado

Thank you for agreeing with me in the bolded area and obviously not reading all that I said.

 

In the post, I was AGAINST people tanking and healing between flashpoints. Switching permanently from a tank to a healer? No chance of return? What's the problem in that?

 

EDIT: Okay, although I'm still a big proponent of AC change, since BioWare takes a bit of time to add something in, I'll level an Op anyways. That way Ratajack is happy I put the effort in (not a jab at you, btw, I assume effort is kind of what makes you happy) and I'm happy that I can finally RP as an Imperial Agent rather than xXxIMPYSNIPZZZ420xXx.

 

The problem with that is if you give people an inch, they will want a mile. As soon as people have the option to switch, they will realize the grass isn't greener or they miss their old play style or the other AC is buffed now and they want it back or whatever else. The next thread would be... ETA on when I can switch my AC back just one time. The thread after that would be ETA on when we can switch once a month... then once a week.... then at will.

 

The game mechanics are what they are. Judging by recent comments, they wont be changing anytime soon and Im happy about that.

I really think we have to consider the effect that any change has on the game's population. If AC change was offered and only the minority appreciated or accepted it the outrage over the change could impact the game in a very negative way.

 

I would be disappointed but keep playing. Can we say the same for the entire population under that premise? Remember, I'm just speculating here, I don't know how the community would react, but I can guess...and I don't expect this would be a change that would welcomed.

 

Folks tend to be kind of touchy about class change in the history of MMOs, and the ACs are close enough to classes to qualify IMO.

I play the game and pay the subscription to have fun, leveling another toon because i want to try a different spec isnt fun. All the people vehemently ************ about this (game breaking) change are probably just stingy because they had to do this already or in other MMOs. Some people play casually with friends or as a hobby and dont have the time or desire to grind another character. The fact is people play the game ot have fun, if this increases the amount of fun they have then add it.

It is so easy and fast to level a character now, there really is no need for class swapping, you can easily have one of everything anyway.

 

Be careful what you wish for anyway, a character rename costs 1000cc for a one time change, if they put this in, surely a reasonable price would be 10000cc for a one time change? That way the people who "REALLY NEED" this function can show just how much they want it. Those of us with money to burn can buy lots of them, and exploit their neediness on the GTN.

Edited October 21, 2013 by ThorgrimLutgen

It is so easy and fast to level a character now, there really is no need for class swapping, you can easily have one of everything anyway.

No one is asking for class swapping.

Well, I thought this forum nightmare was buried for good....guess not.

No one is asking for class swapping.

 

What do you think AC swapping is?? Your AC is your class.. You can disagree all you want.. It doesn't change the facts..

 

Well, I thought this forum nightmare was buried for good....guess not.

 

Yes Lord.. Unfortunately.. Some people.. I tell ya!!

Edited October 21, 2013 by MajikMyst

This is the stupidest idea. Did you not realize there would be no reason to make alts if u could switch not to mention how t would screw up the story line. Obviously u r unrealstic or didnt evne give the idea any thought

This is the stupidest idea. Did you not realize there would be no reason to make alts if u could switch not to mention how t would screw up the story line. Obviously u r unrealstic or didnt evne give the idea any thought

On my main server, I have 16 characters, of whom 9 are geared 55s. And I still support the option for AC change. There are plenty of reasons to make alts.

 

How would it screw up the storyline? AC has no bearing on it. Might want to get your own facts together before calling people stupid, or unthoughtful.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Helig

i want it!

This is the stupidest idea. Did you not realize there would be no reason to make alts if u could switch not to mention how t would screw up the story line. Obviously u r unrealstic or didnt evne give the idea any thought

 

you have no idea what are you talking about dude

advanced class change doest change the story

Is there STILL no gold post on this?

 

Come on BIoware, the least you could do is pop in and acknowledge we're here.

Can't believe this thread is still going. Some really lazy and misinformed people in here.

Is there STILL no gold post on this?

 

Come on BIoware, the least you could do is pop in and acknowledge we're here.

 

The gold post was during the beta and shortly after launch..

 

Bioware went through a lot of trouble changing the AC selection system and adding more ways the game tells us that this choice is permanent.. It boggles the mind why anyone wouldn't already know the answer..

PLEASE.....JUST STOP.

 

Really guys. Let this one sink back to the bottom of the pit. I'm begging you.

The thread is still going on because it is a feature some players would like to see and, perish the thought, they may be new players who weren't around during beta. Not to mention a few forumites that feel it is their duty to turn up and post rather than let the topic slide.

 

The topic of allowing some form of player choice in the selection of endgame role/abilities of the character isn't restricted to discussing the potential for an Advanced Class swap. If you care to look at the suggestions forum you'll also find players asking to defect between the factions and/or allowing them to chose what animations/weapons their abilities use. I'd say those are sort of related in the minds of those players asking for those choices. The player is attached to their character, they have invested in the storyline and now they want to further explore and expand that characters potential. It is unlikely that the individual storylines will be expanded anytime in the near future it would be nice if the developers considered opening up some of the elements of the game for greater character customisation.

 

The Class choice defines the story, basic appearance options and companions you will encounter in the game.

The Advanced Class choice defines the options of roles you will have access to as you play through the game. There are three divisions of role:

DPS or DPS (Marauder/ Sentinel, Sniper/ Gunslinger)

DPS or Tank (Juggernaut/ Guardian, Assassin/ Shadow, Powertech/ Vanguard)

DPS or Heal (Sorcerer/ Sage, Mercenary/ Commando, Operative/ Scoundrel)

 

Having seen how useful Treek is as a companion with both access to both Healing and Tanking abilities I hold be my suggestion that it would cause issues in PvP if a player had access to the core Tank/ Heal abilities at the same time. However AC swapping does not allow for this you would still only have access to Tank or Heal abilities.

 

Having seen many of the anti-AC swapping arguments they tend to be tied into believing access into endgame content of an MMO is based on time spent bashing the keyboard rather than player ability. Not everyone can devote the time to level up a new character from scratch, or they may find the role that is required in their guild is not one their AC can cover and I feel it is unreasonable to expect them to go and spend a month or more levelling another character so they can play with their guildies/ friends.

 

A fear that allowing AC swapping would flood the endgame Flashpoints and Operations (I would say non-guild runs/ Group Finder PUGS) with players that don't know how to play their class. Unfortunately from my experience there are always bad/ unprepared players at this point and the best way to avoid such situations isn't to restrict player choice but to join a guild/ friend the good players you find.

 

Would I use an AC swapping feature? Unlikely, I'm an altoholic so I'm working towards having one of each AC anyway. The only way I would use it would be if it was fairly cheap and I could use it to justify certain roleplaying options (I've always seen my Bounty Hunter as being a bodyguard type, sometimes that requires more of a 'put yourself in the path of the bullet' approach (tank) and sometimes a 'patch them up' approach (heal)). However I see it unlikely if it is ever implemented it would be of a price I would likely use.

 

As it stands I would imagine a fairly straight forward approach to allowing AC swapping under the same guidelines already there for changing something such as the 'Legacy name'.

 

A single use token purchased from the cartel market (I'd price it around the same cost as a server transfer) with a cool down period (either a week or a month depending on how generous the devs are feeling)

 

This allows the option for an AC change but places a cost/ restriction on it that would prevent it from being overused.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Vhaegrant

The only reason this thread is still here is because players keep bringing this Necro thread back. while Bioware should shutdown Necro threads