Protip: They can't

Their 'stunlock' doesn't allow them hardly any more damage than if they never used debilitate.

They cannot use backstab, hidden strike, or shiv again during debilitate because of cooldown limitations.

Hidden strike 1.5sec stun/knockdown

Debilitate 4 second stun

Shiv - 6 second cooldown

Backstab - 9 second cooldown

Lacerate - Requires TA (proc allows 3 hits within 10 seconds because shiv and HS give TA)

The only thing they can do is lacerate one more time and maybe use shiv if the target is slow to react.

They can still do ALOT of damage in their opener. Just not a "kill you before you stand back up lol" amount.

They're far from overpowered. Might even be a little underpowered, but they're still terrifying in the right hands.

Anyone who complains that they do too much burst though is retarded. They've never been closer to balance, if anything, they need a teensy buff since they rely on their opener so much.

I thought all the Ops rerolled Sorc's?

Seriously though, from an "OP" Sorc's opinion, I agree, the changes made to Ops were done in haste and I feel now as a result, need to be reworked. Not entirely sure if it's the class tree thats the issue or lack of utility but I really feel for Ops now.

Anyhow on that note, as stated, Ops aren't able to do the insane burst on the opener they used to.

They can still do ALOT of damage in their opener. Just not a "kill you before you stand back up lol" amount.

 

They're far from overpowered. Might even be a little underpowered, but they're still terrifying in the right hands.

 

Anyone who complains that they do too much burst though is retarded. They've never been closer to balance, if anything, they need a teensy buff since they rely on their opener so much.

Yeah they nerfed the Op so you weren't dead before his stun was up, now you get 10% health to kill him haha it's still a joke. Op stuns you, you pop your trinket here, he's going to Kick your arse to the ground around 1.5 seconds going down and another 1.5 seconds standing up but that time your still going to have 10% health. If you wait for the first stun and pop your trinket on the knocking you to the ground you still down and even know you pop your trinket you got to stand up another 1.5 seconds. Same result. If Some were in there you pop trinket and all defensive cool downs you will have around 15-20% health and any Op with a tiny bit of skill with take that in seconds. BTW I'm talking in the 50 bracket similar champion gear. Pretty much if a Op opens up on you and your not a geared tank you got seconds to live

Yeah they nerfed the Op so you weren't dead before his stun was up, now you get 10% health to kill him haha it's still a joke. Op stuns you, you pop your trinket here, he's going to Kick your arse to the ground around 1.5 seconds going down and another 1.5 seconds standing up but that time your still going to have 10% health. If you wait for the first stun and pop your trinket on the knocking you to the ground you still down and even know you pop your trinket you got to stand up another 1.5 seconds. Same result. If Some were in there you pop trinket and all defensive cool downs you will have around 15-20% health and any Op with a tiny bit of skill with take that in seconds. BTW I'm talking in the 50 bracket similar champion gear. Pretty much if a Op opens up on you and your not a geared tank you got seconds to live

This is simply wrong. It does not happen anymore. Op/drel can get an equally geared opponent to 50% (when using cooldowns OR getting very lucky with crits).

I thought all the Ops rerolled Sorc's?

 

Seriously though, from an "OP" Sorc's opinion, I agree, the changes made to Ops were done in haste and I feel now as a result, need to be reworked. Not entirely sure if it's the class tree thats the issue or lack of utility but I really feel for Ops now.

 

Anyhow on that note, as stated, Ops aren't able to do the insane burst on the opener they used to.

The main problem is the lack of a gap closer. This is fine if they rely on their opener more than other classes, and they do, but it means their burst SHOULD be the highest.

Protip: They can't

Protip: Sorc/Sage shields don't absorb 5k dmg.

This is simply wrong. It does not happen anymore. Op/drel can get an equally geared opponent to 50% (when using cooldowns OR getting very lucky with crits).

Haha says the Op

Protip: They can't

+1 for being an operative and trying to open the eyes of those close minded things but it is futile, they lsot to an operative that used consumables and all cooldowns in 3-4 hits and not hate them just to protect their ego

I thought all the Ops rerolled Sorc's?

 

Seriously though, from an "OP" Sorc's opinion, I agree, the changes made to Ops were done in haste and I feel now as a result, need to be reworked. Not entirely sure if it's the class tree thats the issue or lack of utility but I really feel for Ops now.

 

Anyhow on that note, as stated, Ops aren't able to do the insane burst on the opener they used to.

The nerf was a colossal screw up, Bioware actually made the entire stun lock situation about 100% worse.

Right now it goes (its really bad if the player doesn't have their CC breaker available:

1st) Shoot First + 1 1/2 stun = 3000 damage + 1600 Dot + 30% armor pen now active

2nd) Back Blast = 2500 damage

3rd) Disappearing Act

4th) Shoot First + 1 1/2 stun = 3500 damage + reapply the 1600 Dot (in reality you probably will get about 2000 damage for both of them combined)

5th) Vital Shot 2000 Dot

6th) Dirty Kick 4 sec stun + 500 damage

7th) Upper Cut = 2000 damage

8th) Upper Cut = 2000 damage

10th) Player is now free to react after absorbing about 13,000 HP's of damage

Totally fair, great idea Bioware for the nerf! Now, the downside is that the Operative/Scoundrel just blew their only escape to do this. However for Healers and Ball Handlers I routinely do this in games to take them down before they can be healped by their team mates.

To fix Operative/Scoundrels here is how to do it:

1st) Remove K.O. from game. K.O. applies a 1 1/2 sec stun whenever an operative/scoundrel attacks from stealth. There is no recast timer on it. Its ridiculously overpowered. Remove it and replace it with #2 listed below.

2nd) In place of K.O. replace it with an ability that gives a 25%/50% chance for an operative/scoundrel to have Disappearing Act cool down to be recovered immediately whenever the Operative or Scoundrel kills a target that they have opened their attack with Shoot First. Shoot First would have to apply a 20 second buff on the target that does no damage but would grant the instant stealth if he dies in that time.

3rd) Shoot First has a 10 second recast timer placed on it. No more instant 1 1/5 second recast of stuns by using disappearing act

4th) Remove the back arch requirement to use Backblast as an attack. Instead make it where you have to be in the back arch to get the Element of Surprise critical bonus of 16% to crit, otherwise if you attack from the front you don't get the 16% bonus to critical.

5th) Increase Shoot First damage by 20%

6th) Increase Fletchette Rounds armor penetration to 50%

By doing this, you effectively remove double tapping of shoot first from the game. You greatly cut down on stun lock capability of the Operative/Scoundrel. You give Scoundrels and Operatives the damage they need to fight a heavy armor tank or healer one on one without having to rely on stun lock.

Operatives/Scoundrels are very easy to shut down by keeping them in combat. I'd rather have the ability #2 listed above with diminished CC ability that would not allow me to stun lock people to death so I could actually play as a STEALTHER rather than a STUN LOCKER.

Simply put, Bioware has completely screwed the pooch on Scoundrel/Operative Nerf, they didn't fix anything. They alienated their Operative/Scoundrels and made it where the Operative/Scoundrels remaining can pick and choose whoever they want to destroy. It was a poorly thought out nerf. One of the worst fixes I've seen to date in a MMO.

We are still good but barely any Op's gave the change a chance and they re rolled. So now, you just don't see them as much anymore.

You still get the "nerfs didn't hurt you did they" type things in general while in a match but we get a lot more laughs because on some people, it can take 3 minutes to kill them.

It was a great change to new players, great change because they never stood a chance. It's becoming a horrible change as people get closer and closer gear wise. In a month people will have threads of "Buff OP's, they are laughable"

Those threads might have already started...

Just wanna say to all random ppl taking GUESSES and stuff.

Truth is in 1on1 without anyone interrupting you still fall AS HARD but not AS FAST.

I got lvl 50 focus guardin all but 1 champion I think closer to 600 expertise.

Since they did remove the resolve from opener they can now stun you for way longer time.

now I dont know exactly what an operative does or CAN do if he is smart or good because I never played one.

But I do know that I got down to 15-20% BEFORE I COULD MAKE A MOVE.

Now yes that was without cc break but still IS THAT BAD? not to mention he could then prob run around for 6 seconds until my resolve was BACK TO ZERO AGAIN, because thats how stupid bioware made resolve, and then just stun me again forever and nuke me for 2k+ on every hit.

As valor 64 commando in nearly full bm, champ. No cent gear. a bm operative, that knows how to play his class, can kill me everytime, even with all my cooldowns available in a 1 v 1 fight. The best scoundrels and ops i've seen don't try to be the "just pick any target" and wtfpwn them. They find the guy that is already engaged and they help to quickly eliminate them. I'M SO SORRY YOU CAN NO LONGER OWN ANY CLASS ANYTIME ANYWHERE. But... get over it.

Maybe pick your targets correctly? Maybe pick targets you've seen already use some of their cooldowns so they cannot escape. Or maybe just quit sucking at your class. maybe you can no longer burst a 23k tank. I mean, what do you want? An EZ button?

Just wanna say to all random ppl taking GUESSES and stuff.

 

Truth is in 1on1 without anyone interrupting you still fall AS HARD but not AS FAST.

 

I got lvl 50 focus guardin all but 1 champion I think closer to 600 expertise.

 

Since they did remove the resolve from opener they can now stun you for way longer time.

 

now I dont know exactly what an operative does or CAN do if he is smart or good because I never played one.

 

But I do know that I got down to 15-20% BEFORE I COULD MAKE A MOVE.

 

Now yes that was without cc break but still IS THAT BAD? not to mention he could then prob run around for 6 seconds until my resolve was BACK TO ZERO AGAIN, because thats how stupid bioware made resolve, and then just stun me again forever and nuke me for 2k+ on every hit.

Read what I posted above. It is how you are getting blasted down by Operatives/Scoundrels. It sounds crappy but for a well geared tank or a healer, this about the only chance an Operative/Scoundrel will have assuming both have all their cool downs up. Healers are significantly worse now to fight as an operative if they live through the stun lock.

Yeah they nerfed the Op so you weren't dead before his stun was up, now you get 10% health to kill him haha it's still a joke. Op stuns you, you pop your trinket here, he's going to Kick your arse to the ground around 1.5 seconds going down and another 1.5 seconds standing up but that time your still going to have 10% health. If you wait for the first stun and pop your trinket on the knocking you to the ground you still down and even know you pop your trinket you got to stand up another 1.5 seconds. Same result. If Some were in there you pop trinket and all defensive cool downs you will have around 15-20% health and any Op with a tiny bit of skill with take that in seconds. BTW I'm talking in the 50 bracket similar champion gear. Pretty much if a Op opens up on you and your not a geared tank you got seconds to live

So what you're telling me is... you're bad?

As valor 64 commando in nearly full bm, champ. No cent gear. a bm operative, that knows how to play his class, can kill me everytime, even with all my cooldowns available in a 1 v 1 fight. The best scoundrels and ops i've seen don't try to be the "just pick any target" and wtfpwn them. They find the guy that is already engaged and they help to quickly eliminate them. I'M SO SORRY YOU CAN NO LONGER OWN ANY CLASS ANYTIME ANYWHERE. But... get over it.

 

Maybe pick your targets correctly? Maybe pick targets you've seen already use some of their cooldowns so they cannot escape. Or maybe just quit sucking at your class. maybe you can no longer burst a 23k tank. I mean, what do you want? An EZ button?

Maybe reroll a class that can do far better sustained DPS with some semblance of survivability that can accomplish those same things without relying on opening out of stealth to do it?

I tried the Scrapper build and found I couldn't get on with it, too many Effect Condition Failed messages to be fun. So now I play a Dirty Fighting Scoundrel, probably one of the squishiest characters in the game as we lack the shields that Sorcerors normally have up. I'd rate Concealment Operatives as having perhaps a 1 in 4 chance of taking me down when they open on me from stealth. Maybe 1 in 4 I win, half the time one of us manages to stealth off to safety without the fight really being resolved. The times when I do go down like a ton of bricks are either (1) Two of them are working together - a truly sick combination or (2) I'm already injured/I'm being focused by somebody else from range as well.

Operatives are certainly annoying to fight for me but they are far from taking even my squishy Scoundrel down to 20% health in the duration of their stunlock. Generally it's about 50%, at which point I then pop a medpack when I stand up and am at about 80% health with a full resolve bar - a position from which I can win when I pop my own adrenals and relics.

As an Operative/Scoundrel you simply can't just focus on being a DPS anymore in pvp.

Gotta use a hybrid spec. Flechette/Acid Blade and K.O. / Whatever-Operative-Knockdown is called isn't even worth it anymore, so I put those extra 3 poitns in healing and bust out 8-10 medals a game now. I feel useful too.