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SWTOR finally going P2W


giorgo's Avatar


giorgo
09.21.2018 , 12:37 PM | #391
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Actually, it rewards enterprising players who have a wealth plan and work the plan as part of their game play. This includes PvP players... who realize that there are ongoing expenses in playing, and as such need enough wealth to cover their needs/wants.... which do vary by player. You clearly do not have a wealth plan, and perhaps never have.

Why have a wealth plan in an MMO? Because things in MMOs do cost in game currency. The more you have, the more freedom you have to do what you like, how you like.... and the less vulnerable you are to any changes made to the game. Just as people benefit from having and working a wealth plan in real life.... the same basic model applies in anything that has an economy component to it.. and MMOs certainly apply here.

You are free to stay entrenched in your poverty mind set... but you are doing yourself no favors here. Time/effort is money, and vice versa. If you have no need for credits... then there is no need to have a plan to accumulate them... AND vice versa. The reality is... when playing MMOs...each player does need a personal plan for wealth accumulation if they want to be self-sufficient and want the best "things". If you are not a crafter by your own choice, and you want the best gear.. which happens in some cases to be crafted, then your alternative is a wealth accumulation plan... or forgo the gear.
Why do i need a wealth plan...to obtain a specific gear...that should be obtained...with the currency earned...by doing a certain content (Unassembled components or warzone commendations before 5.0)?
Credits should be used for...vanity items and crafted gear (but crafted gear cannot be BiS).
Playing the GTN, gathering mats, crafting, doing heroics 24/7, selling CM items...should not be the way that you get BiS gear.

Augments were a different story, obviously, because they were always part of crafting only, but recently they got so expensive.They were cheap, worth of a couple of days grind to buy... so there was no need for a...wealth plan.
You just played the game as you desired...and with the credits you earned from your gameplay...you could buy the augments.

P.S. ...

PennyAnn's Avatar


PennyAnn
09.21.2018 , 01:37 PM | #392
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
PVE folks can get mats from Conquests. If they choose to get farmed in granked that is their poor judgment. It's far easier to obtain mats via Conquests than to lose every pvp match.

So let's not spread false equivalencies.
We don't even know where the materials are going to come from, where the schematics are going to drop, if those are also going to be available via Conquest or CXP crates. Frankly, it can't be a false equivalency because we don't even know what the new system will look like to compare it.

The point is: Bioware does not like it when you only play one part of the game and they have and will continue to gate rewards behind parts of the game to encourage/force people to play them if they want the rewards. Complaining about this design tactic has not changed it one bit, other than to add less effective ways of getting those materials to the options.

Conquest is not the easiest way to get these rewards because you are limited to whatever comes in that box once per week. Conquest is not a method to "farm" materials. Ranked PvP absolutely is, and that's why people do it, advertise groups for it on the fleet, and go at it with no other intention than to "farm mats". Is anyone on the fleet advertising groups to "farm Conquest" for mats? With the legacy based restrictions on what you can even do to earn a conquest goal, I would think that counters any ability to "farm" at all. But then, I don't play the game any longer so I might be out of the loop on the new Conquest gold mine of mats.

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Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
09.21.2018 , 04:03 PM | #393
Quote: Originally Posted by PennyAnn View Post
We don't even know where the materials are going to come from, where the schematics are going to drop, if those are also going to be available via Conquest or CXP crates. Frankly, it can't be a false equivalency because we don't even know what the new system will look like to compare it.
Righto.... we don't know that the "shoe is on the other foot" as you put it. There may even be a way to obtain the new mats via pvp, particularly now that there have been multiple threads about this topic. The new tier of gear is supposedly for NiM raiders. As if NiM raiders should have the best pvp gear too? Are they to be allowed to ONLY wear it in NiM GFTM?

Quote:
The point is: Bioware does not like it when you only play one part of the game and they have and will continue to gate rewards behind parts of the game to encourage/force people to play them if they want the rewards. Complaining about this design tactic has not changed it one bit, other than to add less effective ways of getting those materials to the options.
I don't have a problem doing more than one game type. I'm an avid raider and pvper. However, I think complaining and being proactive against something that I suspect will be very poorly implemented (per usual BW history -- see Galactic Command), is a wise course of action. When this thread first started, I was skeptical and full of warm fuzzies about new gear to grind. But then I seriously thought about it, and the half-arsed -- and rushed -- job for which the devs are known.

Quote:
Conquest is not the easiest way to get these rewards because you are limited to whatever comes in that box once per week. Conquest is not a method to "farm" materials. Ranked PvP absolutely is, and that's why people do it, advertise groups for it on the fleet, and go at it with no other intention than to "farm mats". Is anyone on the fleet advertising groups to "farm Conquest" for mats? With the legacy based restrictions on what you can even do to earn a conquest goal, I would think that counters any ability to "farm" at all. But then, I don't play the game any longer so I might be out of the loop on the new Conquest gold mine of mats.
It takes me like an hour to 1.5 hours per toon per week to hit conquests at 15k. I then get 1-3 CMT's and 1-3 of the other purple mats. So I guess it depends how many toons you have. I have approx 25 on SF.
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PennyAnn's Avatar


PennyAnn
09.21.2018 , 08:19 PM | #394
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Righto.... we don't know that the "shoe is on the other foot" as you put it.
This is true. But I didn't necessarily mean that the system would for sure put the shoe on the other foot here, I was more responding to his complaint about having to do PvE content for crafting materials when people are currently "encouraged" to do PvP for the same. I have said all along that I have no idea what the final system will look like, or where the crafting materials and schematics will come from, other than that they stated they would certainly be rewards in NiM mode raids (which still honestly makes no sense... to reward you with gear crafting stuff for gear you supposedly "need" to kill the bosses you just killed to get it?).

Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
I don't have a problem doing more than one game type. I'm an avid raider and pvper. However, I think complaining and being proactive against something that I suspect will be very poorly implemented (per usual BW history -- see Galactic Command), is a wise course of action. When this thread first started, I was skeptical and full of warm fuzzies about new gear to grind. But then I seriously thought about it, and the half-arsed -- and rushed -- job for which the devs are known.
I also have no problem with people calling out potential problems and thoughts about the system and how it should be rolled out when they eventually do. I think feedback is important, even if it is typically ignored around here. My beef is only with people acting like they already know all there is to know about this system when we know nothing, and calling it "pay to win" in order to try and draw attention to their thread. I responded to Omann because he was complaining about having to potentially do some PvE for gear and I wanted to point out that there are several instances where PvE players are semi-forced to do PvP if they want certain things: easier access to crafting materials for new augments is one example, but companions and Unassembled Components are others. Only in the case of companions are there no other ways to obtain them, but even so PvP is generally an easier route as you are rewarded win or lose with at least something.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
It takes me like an hour to 1.5 hours per toon per week to hit conquests at 15k. I then get 1-3 CMT's and 1-3 of the other purple mats. So I guess it depends how many toons you have. I have approx 25 on SF.
So, out of curiosity - do you hit conquest on all 25 of those characters every week? And, how many CMTs and/or purple mats would you get for an hour to hour and a half in PvP instead of conquest? And can't you earn PvP rewards every day vs. just the one day of the week for your conquest effort? If conquest is giving out mats that much more freely than PvP then perhaps everyone is doing it wrong.

(Again, I wouldn't know the current state of things because I've been too busy getting through all the new stuff added to WoW in the last few months, and more to come at/near Blizzcon). In fact, my posting privileges are likely to end here very soon. But I will likely be back when/if there is a 6.0.

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mhobin's Avatar


mhobin
10.13.2018 , 12:49 AM | #395
Hard to argue that the new gear system was not put in place to drive CM sales. It is going to be expensive. And for 99.9% of the population credits will be the most time effective way to gear.

I don't see a way to defend it, let's see you try.

aerockyul's Avatar


aerockyul
10.13.2018 , 12:36 PM | #396
Using made up %s wont make people go to your side.

Based on what we know about Keith, I personally think the motive for this is more naive. They think more people will try out the MM raiding scene, as if the only thing keeping casuals from trying was incentive/lack of mats and not the stupidly insane difficulty made for an extreme minority of players. They already did this with granked. Same thinking is driving this.

People foolishly using the most inefficient method of selling hypercrates is a bonus they can count on by people too conditioned to use shortcuts that are not intended. Those people will do the hypercrate thing anyway. Are you thinking they should close the CM to protect people from their impatient selves? I just heard an EA bean counter spit out their coffee with laughter
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HaoZhao's Avatar


HaoZhao
10.13.2018 , 12:40 PM | #397
They've actually moved AWAY from pay-to-win in the coming 5.10. In the current version of the game, you need to be a subscriber to get your set bonus. As far as I can see, in 5.10, you'll be able to grind 258s so long as you're a preferred player who can get to level 70. This definitely seems like a step forward and not backward.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
10.13.2018 , 01:10 PM | #398
Quote: Originally Posted by mhobin View Post
Hard to argue that the new gear system was not put in place to drive CM sales. It is going to be expensive. And for 99.9% of the population credits will be the most time effective way to gear.

I don't see a way to defend it, let's see you try.
I suppose it depends if NiM raiders will gear themselves first? Hard to say. Anything available in the first week will be outrageously expensive. By week 3, the prices should start coming down.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Trolltar View Post
I believe he's quoting a frequent contributor to these forums. His name is Strawman.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
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WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
10.13.2018 , 01:47 PM | #399
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
I suppose it depends if NiM raiders will gear themselves first? Hard to say. Anything available in the first week will be outrageously expensive. By week 3, the prices should start coming down.
NiM raiders will have a faster gearing experience than PVP [assuming they are getting the clears regulaely, which is doubtful] and as well they should gear faster than everyone else IMO, providing it is not a long time in the difference.

If more than 10% of players are NiM worthy I'd be utterly shocked. it really isn't about it being faster, most people won't get the clears even if they tried. If you were never in progression groups for NiM previously, you'd virtually have no chance of getting clears.

As a consequence of that it's safe to say the best and most viably way of earning the 258s BIS will be via crafting or buying it with UCs converted to masterwork shards.

If you can earn it for free, it can't be considered a P2W. People are too lazy to earn it for themselves, that's on them.

For those that are very NiM worthy, gearing will be faster than PVP and quite honestly given the differences of difficulties between NiM and PVP, NiM raiders should gear faster, it's the hardest content in the game. and one of which so few posses the necessary skills to clear.

UC's converted to Masterwork shards will be the most common method of gearing followed by crafting. Crating wise, if you don't already have all the crafting options necessary to craft that means you have to give them up for as long as you're still gearing.

Virtually no one will be in any position to buy the gear off the GtN, the prices will be astronomical, however would be more viable than the NiM route. Material costs are just as likely to break the bank tho any was.