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What’s New in Season Two

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NRN_Hawk's Avatar


NRN_Hawk
04.17.2014 , 07:04 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Drudenfusz View Post
On the team rating I have to disagree, the ELO system is useful there, otherwise it would just mean groups who will just play a lot will end up on top, even if they are not that good and lose quite a few matches...

On the solo rating, yes, there should be looked on individual performance and not at the team, since you cannot choose your team, so one shouldn't get punished just for being put into a team with bad players.
The problem with ELO in general is that if you have a good team all you need is to win a certain number of games and then stop and whine that it's all too easy.

Also there is no real ELO in team sports, there's leagues (or tiers).

This would work in SWTOR as well, but BW has told me for my Huttball league that it won't happen in the near future.

Maybe my ideas need some tweaks tho, but the ELO system is definately ruining my erm... playtime or experience.

Ima put my solo ranked experience for S1 in the spoiler below in for those who would like to see my detailed reasons behind my ideas.

Spoiler


Now for the short version:

You could think of special timeframes for teams to queue up or a max games per week. Like Football games in Germany are on Weekends only, so they HAVE TO play. ^^ Just a thought.

For solo ranked we really need to work something new out, but I fear BW wouldn't care at all, like they completely ignored my Huttball League thread up to this day...

I always feel like working stuff out which could make the PVP experience or schedule stuff better, with those of the community who feel like it and not have the devs just tell us how to play or what not, as they have shown they don't know much about their PVP systems....

TL/DR: Solo Rating needs to be calculated on something else than just ELO, I've seen too many people throwing games and what not to get their friends rating up. Also ELO will always cause people to just play few games. So this wouldn't even count as a "season".
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Drudenfusz's Avatar


Drudenfusz
04.17.2014 , 07:22 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by NRN_Hawk View Post
The problem with ELO in general is that if you have a good team all you need is to win a certain number of games and then stop and whine that it's all too easy.

Also there is no real ELO in team sports, there's leagues (or tiers).

This would work in SWTOR as well, but BW has told me for my Huttball league that it won't happen in the near future.

Maybe my ideas need some tweaks tho, but the ELO system is definately ruining my erm... playtime or experience.

Ima put my solo ranked experience for S1 in the spoiler below in for those who would like to see my detailed reasons behind my ideas.

Spoiler


Now for the short version:

You could think of special timeframes for teams to queue up or a max games per week. Like Football games in Germany are on Weekends only, so they HAVE TO play. ^^ Just a thought.

For solo ranked we really need to work something new out, but I fear BW wouldn't care at all, like they completely ignored my Huttball League thread up to this day...

I always feel like working stuff out which could make the PVP experience or schedule stuff better, with those of the community who feel like it and not have the devs just tell us how to play or what not, as they have shown they don't know much about their PVP systems....

TL/DR: Solo Rating needs to be calculated on something else than just ELO, I've seen too many people throwing games and what not to get their friends rating up. Also ELO will always cause people to just play few games. So this wouldn't even count as a "season".
I would really love a huttball league, but I doubt that most servers could get enough teams together to make that viable. So, we would need cross server queues and maybe a few more huttball maps, but that will take time (especially since BioWare is still not working on cross server tech in the first place).

On a league in general, my server (the german PvP server) has almost no guilds that can provide teams for arena, man even solo ranked takes forever to get a game. And this is on a PvP server, I don't wanna know how much more terrible the situation must be on most PvE or RP servers.

Also I like it when there is a chance for a team that forms later in the season to still have a chance to get going. Otherwise you won't see even less games at the end of the season, since when a guild has missed a few games they probaby just drop out altogether.

Sure, most sports don't use ELO, but that doesn't mean ELO is a bad system, Chess often uses it, since it is good for a more open structure outside of a league format, which we have here regarding the arena PvP.

Like I said, my only complaint is that si solo performance in solo ranked is not really taken into account, and that people get punished there for things outside there control.
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Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
04.17.2014 , 08:21 AM | #93
There is plenty in this game that is catering to casual play, why would the only portion of PvP that is meant to be somewhat competitive make changes for the casual player? Any system that rewards for wins and does not penalize losses is a breeding ground for mediocrity. Play enough games and all the sudden you have the best rating in the game! I'd love some 700 elo kid being in the top 3 because all they do is play SWTOR for 15 hours a day.

The queues need more people, but probably not the people already playing this game to be honest. We need pieces implemented that will make the game appealing to somewhat competitive players from other games. You could easily get more people queueing if you made the reward some super OP weapon that was BiS for PvE, but why would you want those people in the queue when they aren't interested in the actual content?

If you implement cross-server, a custom arena mode with no rewards, and listen to the top players on how to balance classes, you'll end up with an arena system that is somewhat balanced and offers the features that gamers expect. The gameplay is already fun, that's why most of us continue PvPing in this game to begin with, now you need to make the competitive part actually competitive. Dailies, rewards, etc. will only get more players in the queue (for limited times), not make the matches more fun.
I have opinions and stuff

NRN_Hawk's Avatar


NRN_Hawk
04.17.2014 , 08:25 AM | #94
As it is right now, nothing can make Solo Ranked more fun but the honest PVPers. I for example just play to play and ofc I want to win my games or I wouldn't play them.

edit: but all the "queue syncing" and the stuff like throwing games by some people just ruins it and is no pvp at all, it's bs...
Hawk's Twitch

Streaming PVP in crossdress mode - You can hate, but you too will be hawked \m/

Subbed since wave 2 early access, back when Valor still mattered on Ilum.

~ Pot5 - http://www.helguild.com ~

JediMasterSLC's Avatar


JediMasterSLC
04.17.2014 , 10:05 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
There is plenty in this game that is catering to casual play, why would the only portion of PvP that is meant to be somewhat competitive make changes for the casual player? Any system that rewards for wins and does not penalize losses is a breeding ground for mediocrity. Play enough games and all the sudden you have the best rating in the game! I'd love some 700 elo kid being in the top 3 because all they do is play SWTOR for 15 hours a day.

The queues need more people, but probably not the people already playing this game to be honest. We need pieces implemented that will make the game appealing to somewhat competitive players from other games. You could easily get more people queueing if you made the reward some super OP weapon that was BiS for PvE, but why would you want those people in the queue when they aren't interested in the actual content?

If you implement cross-server, a custom arena mode with no rewards, and listen to the top players on how to balance classes, you'll end up with an arena system that is somewhat balanced and offers the features that gamers expect. The gameplay is already fun, that's why most of us continue PvPing in this game to begin with, now you need to make the competitive part actually competitive. Dailies, rewards, etc. will only get more players in the queue (for limited times), not make the matches more fun.
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funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
04.17.2014 , 10:33 AM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
The queues need more people, but probably not the people already playing this game to be honest. We need pieces implemented that will make the game appealing to somewhat competitive players from other games.

The only serious problem we have with ranked WZ is not enough players (e.g. season 1 when folks stopped queuing).

While it would be good to increase the population of good players , it is never bad if more players queue for ranked, no matter how unskilled / casual they are. If you have a large enough population then match making works, you develop better players organically (some n00bs become good) and attract more good players from other games.

With an Elo rating system and match making the problem is never "there are too many bads queuing". The only problem (assuming you want a challenging match rather than a 1 sided affair) "there are not enough players around my rating queuing).

As for Elo vs some other system: Elo is fine. The only problem with it is when BW says they are going to compare ratings across isolated player pools and there is no rating system that will give the intended result (i.e. make rating from isolated player pools meaningfully comparable).

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Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
04.17.2014 , 11:25 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by funkiestj View Post
The only serious problem we have with ranked WZ is not enough players (e.g. season 1 when folks stopped queuing).

While it would be good to increase the population of good players , it is never bad if more players queue for ranked, no matter how unskilled / casual they are. If you have a large enough population then match making works, you develop better players organically (some n00bs become good) and attract more good players from other games.

With an Elo rating system and match making the problem is never "there are too many bads queuing". The only problem (assuming you want a challenging match rather than a 1 sided affair) "there are not enough players around my rating queuing).

As for Elo vs some other system: Elo is fine. The only problem with it is when BW says they are going to compare ratings across isolated player pools and there is no rating system that will give the intended result (i.e. make rating from isolated player pools meaningfully comparable).
Casual players do not build a ranked scene. They queue up as often as needed for obtainable rewards (ranked gear, lower tier end of season rewards, etc.). If you want a scene that's competitive, that people would actually watch streamed, that you could actually have a tournament built around, then you need players who are willing to work at being good. The casual, lower elo player base will come on its own if you have a thriving scene at the top.

Cross server is an absolute necessity for ranked to ever mean anything in this game. So we're at least 1-2 years out from it even being remotely possible. For now, they should focus on balancing classes, coming up with new maps, updating the format to what they would ultimately like, and taking feedback from high rated players on how to improve. When/if cross server is ever available, they can implement better matchmaking logic and remove some of the casual friendly features from ranked like bolster.
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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
04.17.2014 , 03:59 PM | #98 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey folks,

Quick update on the blog. We noticed a piece of information in the blog which was not correct and I wanted to clarify. Currently the blog says this:
Quote:
We are happy to announce the creation of a daily and weekly quest that will provide you with extra incentive to queue up and dominate - in both Solo and Group flavors!
This is not entirely correct. What is being added is a single daily and a single weekly quest for ranked play. Now, you can play either solo or group to complete the quest, but there is not a separate quest for each queue. This is something the team would like to add at some point in the future but it is not being implemented currently.

Sorry for any confusion, the blog has been updated to remove the confusing part about "both flavors."

-eric
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JediMasterSLC's Avatar


JediMasterSLC
04.17.2014 , 04:30 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
This is not entirely correct. What is being added is a single daily and a single weekly quest for ranked play. Now, you can play either solo or group to complete the quest, but there is not a separate quest for each queue. This is something the team would like to add at some point in the future but it is not being implemented currently.

Sorry for any confusion, the blog has been updated to remove the confusing part about "both flavors."

-eric
This is very disappointing news Eric.

SeanFM's Avatar


SeanFM
04.17.2014 , 04:37 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

Quick update on the blog. We noticed a piece of information in the blog which was not correct and I wanted to clarify. Currently the blog says this:


This is not entirely correct. What is being added is a single daily and a single weekly quest for ranked play. Now, you can play either solo or group to complete the quest, but there is not a separate quest for each queue. This is something the team would like to add at some point in the future but it is not being implemented currently.

Sorry for any confusion, the blog has been updated to remove the confusing part about "both flavors."

-eric
Thanks for clarifying that. Out of interest, what is the reasoning behind delaying the addition of separate missions for solo and group ranked?
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