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Take a page out of WoW's books


FridgeLM's Avatar


FridgeLM
11.24.2013 , 01:33 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Gaudrath View Post
Do I see people complaining about ninja looting? Why yes, yes I do!

Guess Bioware biofailed again. Happens when you can't decide on what your game should be.

Throw out item drops from bosses altogether. Make ops bosses and rewards provide ops specific tokens ONLY, to all players equally. Place ops specific vendors with ops specific gear in the game.

That's a token system, not this mutated thing they have now.
Yeah I really want them to copy a game that has a joke for endgame pve.
<Death and Taxes>

Gaudrath's Avatar


Gaudrath
11.24.2013 , 04:17 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by FridgeLM View Post
Yeah I really want them to copy a game that has a joke for endgame pve.
If by "endgame PvE" you mean "waiting for my turn for the RNG gods and greedy players to let me have X piece of loot", then yeah, SWTOR has that covered.

Loot rolls have NOTHING to do with the quality of endgame PvE. That system is totally outdated and insufficient. It creates frustration among players and is a poor excuse even for a time sink.

Not to mention Bioware knows this, they just wanted to sit on two chairs at the same time, and as usual ended up falling on their arse.

Rolzhard's Avatar


Rolzhard
11.26.2013 , 10:03 AM | #13
OP has a point. This RNG loot distribution system sucks. I've given up ever completing set bonuses because RNG sucks so bad and the raid politics around key gear creates way too much tension. I get the comm gear and min max from GTN. I still lol at how uptight people get about the relic at 2nd boss in TfB. Just buy them. Its a quality of life thing^^.

But, honestly, that we have to forego set bonuses because of sucky RNG is just a joke.
Look into my eyes.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
11.26.2013 , 11:55 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolzhard View Post
OP has a point. This RNG loot distribution system sucks. I've given up ever completing set bonuses because RNG sucks so bad and the raid politics around key gear creates way too much tension. I get the comm gear and min max from GTN. I still lol at how uptight people get about the relic at 2nd boss in TfB. Just buy them. Its a quality of life thing^^.

But, honestly, that we have to forego set bonuses because of sucky RNG is just a joke.
why do people get uptight about the relic?

I mean... you can get the damn things as a quest reward from dread fortress, and another from dread palace O_O (or if you are rich - it can be crafted)

I do love my guild's policy on set bonus pieces. you get one per operation, unless no one else needs another, then you might get two. kept all my active 55ves in bonuses so far.

Sangrar's Avatar


Sangrar
11.27.2013 , 09:32 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by LukeTheGeek View Post
Let's face it guys, ninja looting is an absolute pain in the a**e. One simple way to help (help not completely solve) is to introduce a gear looting system similar to endgame WoW. For those who are unfamiliar with the concept I shall outline it:
A character can only need on an item if it's armour type and stats match up with their character. For example a Sentinal/Marauder can need on medium strength armour because that is what it needs. A Guardian/Jugg could not however because they use heavy armour.

The idea behind it is to stop captain buttface who, for our example, is a sorc dps, needing on medium/heavy items or double bladed sabres/guns or even strength based single blade sabres as they are not of direct use.

Just curious as to what people's opinions on a loot system would be, although I'm clueless as to how they would allow need/greed for craft supplies like MMGs
yeah I agree with the armor thing, I only roll for stuff I need. Though I have some questions. First, sometimes in flashpoints a gear is looted that matches up with no one in your group, what then? who gets it? for example everyone in that group uses light or heavy armor and a piece of smuggler gear is looted, who will get it if no one can roll for it? Also, sometimes I have been accused of being a ninja, I rolled on gear I needed, but got all the bounty hunter gear, the other guy who was more geared than I was got butthurt and voted me out of the flashpoint and later trashed me saying " this guy ninjaed all the loot" made me have to log off due to all the whispers of " you suck" from half the fleet, couldn't even get a group to run the flashpoint with me that day because they all thought I was a thief. What prevents people from calling me a ninja is that case? I mean seriously, the moron had better gear than me, stats proved it, I had to gear up because I was behind, and I won the rolls fairly, what did I do wrong? I said this story to show a real instance ( seriously a year ago this happened) where some people take legitimate cases like you described with the sorcerer rolling on heavy armor, and use the term to ruin anyone they don't like, McCarthyism ring any bells? Last thing, I don't think there should be any restrictions on rolling for non statted items like that dread mask that drops from the Dreadtooth world boss, I know a guy who was accused of ninjaing that thing because he won the roll and happened to be group leader, he got trashed for months in fleet chat I found out what happened and sided with him, he pressed need like everyone else, fought for it like everyone else, if he won the roll he deserved it.

Anyway I support the idea you got, but there should probably be no restriction on items with either no stats like that mask which was a shell, and there should not be restrictions on stuff like that pleasure speeder music transceiver that drops from Toborros Courtyard.
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Rognus's Avatar


Rognus
11.27.2013 , 10:00 AM | #16
First off I would hope that everyone would understand the term Ninja looting. that is to take loot that does not belong to you , this was first coined by people running ops/raids and setting it to master looter and at the last boss grabbing all the loot and vanishing. Selecting need on something bioware lets you select need on is not ninja looting, it may not be the best practise but it is not ninja looting. So the lesson here? Learn to use the right terms.

Now flame on.

P.S. Thor > Everyone!

psandak's Avatar


psandak
11.27.2013 , 10:43 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Sangrar View Post
yeah I agree with the armor thing, I only roll for stuff I need. Though I have some questions. First, sometimes in flashpoints a gear is looted that matches up with no one in your group, what then? who gets it? for example everyone in that group uses light or heavy armor and a piece of smuggler gear is looted, who will get it if no one can roll for it? Also, sometimes I have been accused of being a ninja, I rolled on gear I needed, but got all the bounty hunter gear, the other guy who was more geared than I was got butthurt and voted me out of the flashpoint and later trashed me saying " this guy ninjaed all the loot" made me have to log off due to all the whispers of " you suck" from half the fleet, couldn't even get a group to run the flashpoint with me that day because they all thought I was a thief. What prevents people from calling me a ninja is that case? I mean seriously, the moron had better gear than me, stats proved it, I had to gear up because I was behind, and I won the rolls fairly, what did I do wrong? I said this story to show a real instance ( seriously a year ago this happened) where some people take legitimate cases like you described with the sorcerer rolling on heavy armor, and use the term to ruin anyone they don't like, McCarthyism ring any bells? Last thing, I don't think there should be any restrictions on rolling for non statted items like that dread mask that drops from the Dreadtooth world boss, I know a guy who was accused of ninjaing that thing because he won the roll and happened to be group leader, he got trashed for months in fleet chat I found out what happened and sided with him, he pressed need like everyone else, fought for it like everyone else, if he won the roll he deserved it.

Anyway I support the idea you got, but there should probably be no restriction on items with either no stats like that mask which was a shell, and there should not be restrictions on stuff like that pleasure speeder music transceiver that drops from Toborros Courtyard.
#1 - the latest (2.0) FPs and Ops are setup so that the loot tables take into account what classes are present. So if a group consists of three jedi and a trooper, you will not get smuggler gear. Run a CZ SM FP solo and you will see this in action (you get no gear except what your character (not even your companion) can potentially use)

#2 - if gear were to drop that no one in the FP or OP could possibly use, it would simply be all greed. in the WoW system, if a piece of gear is not usable by your class the "need" button is greyed out. If all participants cannot use the gear then all they can do is either greed or pass.

There are two factors not being taken into account by the OP: companions and legacy transfer.

- WoW does not have companions like SWTOR. And it is customary in SWTOR to not "need" on gear that you want for your companion, but the custom also holds that if a piece of gear is an upgrade for one's companion one asks the question, "may I need for my companion?" So any restriction system would have to account for this custom and the fact that 99% of the time if someone asks the rest of the party is OK with it.

- WoW does not have item modifications like SWTOR. And in SWTOR using bound to legacy equipment, one can rip out BOP item modifications put them into a BOL shell and send them to an alt. Again, the custom is for a player to ask the group if he/she can need on a piece of gear for an alt. And again, if no one else needs the item in question chances are the group will OK it.

So how does SWTOR handle these two factors if a looting gear restriction system were to be put in place? Add companion and alt "need" buttons? Which has priority companion or alt? Are these buttons restricted too? How do you track that information? How do you prevent a player from creating one of every character class just to open up the "need for alt" button? The task is a little more daunting than the OP thinks, me thinks .

SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
11.27.2013 , 10:55 AM | #18
The current loot system is just fine. What some of you need to do, is stop running in PUG Ops groups. If you aren't running with a regular Ops group then they don't give a flying carp about your gear issues. If you, IDK, maybe JOIN A GUILD, specifically one that does run Ops, then maybe you wouldn't complain about loot ninjas. Personally I would rather watch paint dry, while poking my eyes out with hot needles than to join a PUG Ops group, with the possible exception of lvl 50 HM/NiM where maybe one person actually needs anything, and every one else is doing it for the weekly.

This community keeps QQing about carp like it's SWG and expecting the Devs to "fix it" like SOE did. Here is a clue, SOE "fixed" SWG by launching the NGE, we don't want BioWare to do something so stupid, so use some common sense, and find a better way to do what you want to do.
My propsed changes to Loot Rules.
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AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
11.29.2013 , 08:01 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Redfiree View Post
Your leader was using master looter. It does prevent ninja looting (Unless the leader is the ninja looter, then it gets a lot worse.) but it also slows down the operation a lot. There are pros and cons to both systems.
Yes, that's right. I found it very fair the way things worked there.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)