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Ultimate Showdown!!! Exar-Kun meets his match!!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Ultimate Showdown!!! Exar-Kun meets his match!!!

UndyingHadyn's Avatar


UndyingHadyn
11.13.2013 , 12:18 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
I love how he didn't even explain how he believes Obi-wan could successfully pull off a Force attack against Kun, when Kun has exceptionally powerful Force Barriers.
I'm going to call you "old once again", like as a nick-name or something.

Re read my account of how I said the fight might occur ...once again.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
11.13.2013 , 04:48 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
I love how he didn't even explain how he believes Obi-wan could successfully pull off a Force attack against Kun, when Kun has exceptionally powerful Force Barriers.
I think he was saying he was going to attack him long most people attack against an opponent with strong force barriers by chucking rocks and the like. Force barriers don't protect against projectiles thus Kun has to use his own TK abilities to stop the stones something I doubt he can do while concentrating for force blasts. Also Kenobi has the strongest push in the order and high caliber force sensitives have penetrated Kun's Defenses before (albeit Kun was able to lessen the impact) I believe by having such a high caliber push Obi-wan classifies as a high caliber force sensitive.



Not taking any side here just thought some clarification was needed and just wanted to point out that a less powerful, but crafty force user can still use lower level conventional force abilities to fight against a more powerful opponent, and thought that argument wasn't being explained well enough carry on.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
11.13.2013 , 08:44 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by UndyingHadyn View Post
I'm going to call you "old once again", like as a nick-name or something.

Re read my account of how I said the fight might occur ...once again.
If you weren't being such an arrogant twit in almost every post I might care to read your arguments.

Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
I think he was saying he was going to attack him long most people attack against an opponent with strong force barriers by chucking rocks and the like. Force barriers don't protect against projectiles thus Kun has to use his own TK abilities to stop the stones something I doubt he can do while concentrating for force blasts. Also Kenobi has the strongest push in the order and high caliber force sensitives have penetrated Kun's Defenses before (albeit Kun was able to lessen the impact) I believe by having such a high caliber push Obi-wan classifies as a high caliber force sensitive.
Well there are a number of problems here, Kun doesn't need to stand around and charge a blast, he never relents his attack, it is also one of the reason he wields his unique weapon with one hand, he always has one free to use his force abilities with, Obi-Wan is not going to have time to use any rocks, because he is getting bull-rushed.

Between Force Wave, Force Wound and how easily Kun could take advantage of Soresu's weaknesses and Obi-Wan is in trouble.
"The Dark Jedi are in many ways more dangerous than the Sith."
Republic Justice

UndyingHadyn's Avatar


UndyingHadyn
11.13.2013 , 11:18 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
If you weren't being such an arrogant twit in almost every post I might care to read your arguments.



Well there are a number of problems here, Kun doesn't need to stand around and charge a blast, he never relents his attack, it is also one of the reason he wields his unique weapon with one hand, he always has one free to use his force abilities with, Obi-Wan is not going to have time to use any rocks, because he is getting bull-rushed.

Between Force Wave, Force Wound and how easily Kun could take advantage of Soresu's weaknesses and Obi-Wan is in trouble.

hehe, my apologies me lady.



There is a problem here when suggesting all of Kun's force blasts were instantaneous. Force blasts, were a subdivision of the ancient Sith Magics. In essence they were the applications of sorcery. First glance into most types of sith magic, all reveal that the qualities or strength of said applications, all required some preparation. It could be meditation, hand gestures, etc. This highly suggests that sith magic was *chanelled*, ergo Obi-wan would have even more time to act upon the already apparent darkside energy that would be collecting around Kun.


Another arguement to note is again pointed towards Obi-wan's sabre skills. He wasn't using an extendable sabre, but he was a master of more forms than just Soresu. He could switch between many forms quickly and efficiently. So basically, Kun's arrogance could totally be used against him. Obi would be surviving Kun's sabre onslaught, creating windows of opportunity for Obi to switch to an aggressive form. It would be easy to goad Kun into one of his power strikes. We would see an infuriated Kun swinging with tremendous power down upon Obi, only to see Obi simultaneously dodge and riposte with Shi-cho, for example.


The exponential possibilities of this fight are absolutely delicious.

sell-dog's Avatar


sell-dog
11.13.2013 , 11:46 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by UndyingHadyn View Post
There is a problem here when suggesting all of Kun's force blasts were instantaneous. Force blasts, were a subdivision of the ancient Sith Magics. In essence they were the applications of sorcery. First glance into most types of sith magic, all reveal that the qualities or strength of said applications, all required some preparation. It could be meditation, hand gestures, etc. This highly suggests that sith magic was *chanelled*, ergo Obi-wan would have even more time to act upon the already apparent darkside energy that would be collecting around Kun.
The preparation required for Sith Magics differs based on the magnitude of the spell and the power of the Force User. For example, in Dynasty of Evil Zannah could inflict extreme terror and insanity on an opponent's mind with no preparation but in Rule of Two she used some weird half second hand gesture to perform it. Exar Kun is quite the powerful Force User and is top 3 of all time in terms of use, knowledge, and power in Sith Magics. Preparation for these attacks is not something he needs.

You also have forgotten the point that Obi-Wan has had opponents rip through his Barrier. Eps III is pretty much Obi-Wan's prime (or close to it) and look how easily Dooku threw him aside. Consider 3 cases:
-Now if Dooku had to "gather his power" to do that, if Obi-Wan sensed Dooku gathering his power whatever means he took to prevent Dooku's attack obviously had no effect.
-If Obi-Wan couldn't sense Dooku gather power, this deducts points from Obi-Wan's sense abilities.
-If Dooku didn't even have to "gather his power" to break Obi-Wan's barrier, this is the most detrimental to your argument for obvious reasons.

So, all 3 cases hurt your argument that Obi-Wan can sense or defend a Kun Force-Based attack and note that I am ignoring the fact the Obi-Wan has no knowledge of defense against magic. If breaking his Barrier occurs, how do you propose he will defend himself against something he knows nothing about? One of the reasons Yoda tells Obi-Wan he is not powerful enough to face Sidious. It's true that Dooku is powerful, but Exar Kun is more powerful. This is not an argument in my opinion but been fun.
"What's the difference between hot and cold doughnuts?"
"The difference is: cold ones I can eat 8, hot ones I can eat 48!"

UndyingHadyn's Avatar


UndyingHadyn
11.13.2013 , 01:19 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by sell-dog View Post
The preparation required for Sith Magics differs based on the magnitude of the spell and the power of the Force User. For example, in Dynasty of Evil Zannah could inflict extreme terror and insanity on an opponent's mind with no preparation but in Rule of Two she used some weird half second hand gesture to perform it. Exar Kun is quite the powerful Force User and is top 3 of all time in terms of use, knowledge, and power in Sith Magics. Preparation for these attacks is not something he needs.

You also have forgotten the point that Obi-Wan has had opponents rip through his Barrier. Eps III is pretty much Obi-Wan's prime (or close to it) and look how easily Dooku threw him aside. Consider 3 cases:
-Now if Dooku had to "gather his power" to do that, if Obi-Wan sensed Dooku gathering his power whatever means he took to prevent Dooku's attack obviously had no effect.
-If Obi-Wan couldn't sense Dooku gather power, this deducts points from Obi-Wan's sense abilities.
-If Dooku didn't even have to "gather his power" to break Obi-Wan's barrier, this is the most detrimental to your argument for obvious reasons.

So, all 3 cases hurt your argument that Obi-Wan can sense or defend a Kun Force-Based attack and note that I am ignoring the fact the Obi-Wan has no knowledge of defense against magic. If breaking his Barrier occurs, how do you propose he will defend himself against something he knows nothing about? One of the reasons Yoda tells Obi-Wan he is not powerful enough to face Sidious. It's true that Dooku is powerful, but Exar Kun is more powerful. This is not an argument in my opinion but been fun.


We're not disputing force pushes here. The arguement placed by those saying Kun could melt Obi with a force blast stands. Kun could melt almost anyone with darkside magic. Obi-wan could not diffuse sith magic. He could interrupt it tho.



Cheers

Stinghen's Avatar


Stinghen
11.14.2013 , 08:45 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by UndyingHadyn View Post
We're not disputing force pushes here. The arguement placed by those saying Kun could melt Obi with a force blast stands. Kun could melt almost anyone with darkside magic. Obi-wan could not diffuse sith magic. He could interrupt it tho.



Cheers
He could interrupt only if Kun gave him such a chance. But Kun is capable of short blasts, in which case, Obi-wan's only chance would be to dodge. And to dodge, he'd need some of the Ataru gymnastics he was fond of in Ep I, and which nearly got him killed in his fight against Maul. When you only consider Kun's Force blast, you're taking away the fact he was one of the most gifted lightsaber combatants of his time, able to beat his master, Jedi Weapon Master Vodo-Siosk Baas. Exar Kun was never defeated in a lightsaber duel. Obi-wan would be at best evenly matched by Exar Kun.

Also, Dooku did not just Force push Obi-wan away. He lifted Obi-wan up with the Force, choked him, then flung him across the room (which means he grabbed Obi-wan by the balls for at least four seconds). Then the Jedi Master was knocked out for some good twenty minutes. Enough to see who would wake up in the jail in that case (were it not for Anakin).

And these applications of the Force were simply telekinetic. The most basic, run-off-the-mill skills available to Force-users. Kun was capable of considerably more elaborate manifestations of abilities, like the "Force wound" with which he killed Odan-Urr, the Force Blast, mind control to a ridiculous extent (not to say that it would affect Obi-wan, but it's one hell of an elaborate use of the Force that shows how Kun can bend it to his will). Obi-wan would have a better chance at beating Sidious, and we know the outcome of that ficticious confrontation. As Yoda would irrevocably place it: "To fight this Exar Kun (Darth Sidious), strong enough, you are not."

UndyingHadyn's Avatar


UndyingHadyn
11.17.2013 , 11:24 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Stinghen View Post
He could interrupt only if Kun gave him such a chance. But Kun is capable of short blasts, in which case, Obi-wan's only chance would be to dodge. And to dodge, he'd need some of the Ataru gymnastics he was fond of in Ep I, and which nearly got him killed in his fight against Maul. When you only consider Kun's Force blast, you're taking away the fact he was one of the most gifted lightsaber combatants of his time, able to beat his master, Jedi Weapon Master Vodo-Siosk Baas. Exar Kun was never defeated in a lightsaber duel. Obi-wan would be at best evenly matched by Exar Kun.

Also, Dooku did not just Force push Obi-wan away. He lifted Obi-wan up with the Force, choked him, then flung him across the room (which means he grabbed Obi-wan by the balls for at least four seconds). Then the Jedi Master was knocked out for some good twenty minutes. Enough to see who would wake up in the jail in that case (were it not for Anakin).

And these applications of the Force were simply telekinetic. The most basic, run-off-the-mill skills available to Force-users. Kun was capable of considerably more elaborate manifestations of abilities, like the "Force wound" with which he killed Odan-Urr, the Force Blast, mind control to a ridiculous extent (not to say that it would affect Obi-wan, but it's one hell of an elaborate use of the Force that shows how Kun can bend it to his will). Obi-wan would have a better chance at beating Sidious, and we know the outcome of that ficticious confrontation. As Yoda would irrevocably place it: "To fight this Exar Kun (Darth Sidious), strong enough, you are not."

Bah.

There isn't enough proof to support these instantaneous, all powerful, melt absolutely everything in your path blasts. Sith magic was channeled, that much lore can tell us. If you think that Kun could simply walk around and shoot blasts like bullets without channeling them, and not experience any exhaustion from utilizing the force... that's silly.

Sure we can list fights where Obi-wan had his nose put out of joint. But there's no denying the incredible victories Obi has had versus greater and more powerful opponents, due to his craftiness. Obi-wan was an experienced and seasoned fighter.

Once again, Kun was quite vunerable and prone to physical injury. I think I even saw a comic strip photo of a thrown stone smashing Kun's face before lol. We all appreciate the fact that sith magic was powerful, and Obi-wan probably wouldn't defend himself appropriately. That is why if the fight even progressed to the point where Kun would have to resort to sith magic, Obi would be able to detect it, and his survival would depend on a successful interruption.

My initial fight description still stands.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
11.17.2013 , 12:09 PM | #39
So why are people saying that Obi-Wan is just gonna stand there like a moron to try and take the Force Blast, instead of avoiding it? He isn't stupid.

Not saying Obi-Wan wouldn't get hit but you guys are acting like he is just gonna stand there and take it.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.