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On this "Sith are not evil" thing

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
On this "Sith are not evil" thing

Vecke's Avatar


Vecke
08.23.2013 , 12:40 PM | #101
I don't really see how progress from war is applicable to the question of whether or not the Sith is evil. Good things come from bad things all the time. Progress doesn't automatically make something good. Psychology has made incredible strides in learning about mental illness by studying mass murderers and serial killers. That doesn't mean serial killers are good.

If one country goes to war with another country because their respective leaders want power or oil or land or slaves, yes, there will obviously be technological progress because of that war. It still doesn't mean war is good. It still doesn't mean the millions who died so those leaders could gain power died for a good cause. It just means a sliver of good came from an evil thing.
"I know."

Thylbanus's Avatar


Thylbanus
08.24.2013 , 06:18 AM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by Vecke View Post
I don't really see how progress from war is applicable to the question of whether or not the Sith is evil. Good things come from bad things all the time. Progress doesn't automatically make something good. Psychology has made incredible strides in learning about mental illness by studying mass murderers and serial killers. That doesn't mean serial killers are good.

If one country goes to war with another country because their respective leaders want power or oil or land or slaves, yes, there will obviously be technological progress because of that war. It still doesn't mean war is good. It still doesn't mean the millions who died so those leaders could gain power died for a good cause. It just means a sliver of good came from an evil thing.
THANK YOU! I got caught in that argument a lot longer that I should have. It's basically my point that the Sith code is what people mean when they say that the Sith are not evil. If you follow the code, it, like the other things noted, is not good or bad, it's what you do with it. You can follow the Sith code and be good much like you can follow the Jedi code and be evil.

The rest of Sith culture is what is evil. I'm sure if you broke down each facet, there are probably some good things to find as well, but overall they are evil. You really can't escape that. I'm sure that someone will drop the Obi-wan quote, but honestly, you have to have some messed up lens to be able to see ALL that the Sith do in a positive light.
It's amazing how loud a dollar can be.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristin Wilson

Lord-Aleph's Avatar


Lord-Aleph
08.24.2013 , 09:46 AM | #103
The Sith are considered evil. Their beliefs and culture generally revolve around the subjugation of alien races and anyone else not seen by the Sith as being "pure", very similar to beliefs held by the Nazi party during WWII. However, that doesn't necessarily make every single person in the Empire evil. Many of them were raised in the Sith culture, and from their perspective, these beliefs are acceptable and correct. So in that sense, it's more that the ideas and beliefs taught to them are evil.

BrianRMiller's Avatar


BrianRMiller
09.27.2013 , 10:15 AM | #104
The Sith aren't "evil" -- they're merely desperate.

Remember, the Republic is a large, corrupt and oppressive expansionist empire and the galaxy's worst criminal regime. The very existence of the Sith Order is a result of that corruption.

From the earliest days, the Republic and Jedi have emulated history's worst criminals.

When the Dark Jedi and Light Jedi had an ideological disagreement on the role of emotion in the force, the Light Jedi response was a war -- followed up with executions. The remaining Dark Jedi who didn't take up arms were stripped of their possessions and citizenship and expelled into deep space -- reminiscent of Hitler's treatment of early German Jews.

As the Sith Empire of old formed and grew, it eventually bumped up against the Republic, and the two went to war (as is common). When the Sith were defeated, the Jedi and Republic response was mass genocide of all Sith and Imperial citizens. Hundreds of billions of men, women and children -- mostly civilians -- were murdered in the most grotesque ways imaginable. Jedi lightsabers and Republic blasters shot babies in their cradles. Republic ships delivered death to Imperial cities from above.

Ziost, Korriban and hundreds of other Sith worlds were murdered.

The Republic also destroyed almost all of the Sith cultural artifacts on Korriban, in an echo of the Taliban's own destruction of ancient Buddhist artifacts in Afghanistan.

The current Sith Empire is a remnant survivor of those two unspeakable crimes, committed by a Republic and Jedi Order whose "values" are most definitely at odds with their actions. Its call to strength and power is a demand for survival in a hostile galaxy, while its rage and hatred as powerful emotional elements are understandable in a group of people who call for passion to fuel actions. A group of people subjected to genocide by an evil Republic and its fundamentalist nut-job religious Jedi council aren't going to be feeling love, romance or self-sacrifice after seeing most of their friends, families, and homes destroyed repeatedly.

In short, any "bad" emotions fueling the Sith are a justifiable result of Republic and Jedi crimes against the galaxy.

Clearly, Sith cannot exist within the evil Republic. Within the oppressive order of the Republic/Jedi, religious freedom is banned and unpopular speech results in prison time. Thus, the only choice is war and eventual hope of victory.

The Republic and Jedi's evil is of a more toxic and corrosive nature than that of some Sith psychopaths like Vitiate (who, incidentally, would have probably been destroyed long before the new Sith Empire arose if not for the Jedi/Republic genocide of Imperials). It's a totalitarian empire behind the smiley, happy-face rhetoric of "peace."

The apologia by the Republic's adherents is amusing.

"What about Alderaan?" What about Ziost, Korriban and hundreds of other Sith worlds? Alderaan was destroyed by a Republic-designed weapon, so is largely an echo of the countless other worlds the Republic brutalized and murdered.

"What about Palpatine's attack and deception?" Palpatine's destruction of the Jedi order and Republic was a legitimate act of self-defense by the Sith, who had been brutally hunted down and exterminated -- simply for their beliefs -- over the millennia.

Where the Jedi and Republic have shown depraved cruelty -- the mass murder of all Sith and Imperials after military victory -- the Sith have shown restraint. The Jedi and Republic bombed Korriban into cinders at the end of the first Sith War. The Empire, upon seizing Coruscant, simply held it in order to get a treaty granting the Empire respite from Republic oppression -- yet destroying Coruscant entirely would have been appropriate as a response to the callous destruction of Korriban. (Ironically, the Sith's ethics would get them in trouble later, as Corsucant would be a valuable resource towards helping the Republic later in the war.)

Are the Sith "good guys?" No. They're trying to survive against a massive colossus of a Republic, headed by religious extremists called "Jedi," seeking to exterminate them and deny them existence as free and sovereign beings... all while arguing that their cause is "right" because it's written in their holy books.

Hundreds of billions of victims of Jedi genocide will tell you the truth, if you care to look long enough or listen to the whispers in ruins of long-dead cities.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
09.28.2013 , 03:40 PM | #105
Why are all these philosophical topics getting necroed?

I can only take so much people!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
09.28.2013 , 03:57 PM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Why are all these philosophical topics getting necroed?

I can only take so much people!
I'm as lost as you.

A Dark Power is among us. It hides in the ancient fortress called Star Wars Discussion, and it has the power to bring dead threads back to life.

They call him The Necromancer.

Added Chapter 44 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
09.28.2013 , 04:11 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I'm as lost as you.

A Dark Power is among us. It hides in the ancient fortress called Star Wars Discussion, and it has the power to bring dead threads back to life.

They call him The Necromancer.

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/...necromancy.jpg

The end is upon us!