Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The State of The Ebon Hawk

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

NadirPalo's Avatar


NadirPalo
09.21.2013 , 10:20 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Prisoner View Post
snip

If you want to actually help them get better you're going to have get dirty in the trenches with them, and very slowly, through little one on one interactions, try to help people.

snip
Ding ding ding we have a winner!

This whole post is right on the money. If you want to help pugs get better, read this one. VERY well said, Pym!
Pot5 -- Naismiya assassin -- Nadír marauder -- Jénny operative -- Băd mercenary
TEH -- Ruyah shadow -- Nadir vanguard -- Nadiri scoundrel -- Zaahira sentinel -- Na'dir guardian

Aowin's Avatar


Aowin
09.21.2013 , 12:01 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by MahneWarrior View Post
The real issue with here honestly stems from the simple fact the Republic faction does not really have a driving force PvP guild. Each so called PvP guild on the Republic side has noteworthy players, nevertheless, for every noteworthy player you have three or four players that coast on the success of their better players, which is fine. Though, the problem this causes is it lacks continuity.

Players names have the ability to motivate players, like many here I have entered a warzone late only to turn it around because people followed my instructions, this was only possible because for some odd reason people think I am a decent player. This said, if the Republic side had PvP guild that got together the pvpers of our factor, I do think the factions player base would respond favorably. The would listen to instructions, not give up at the sight of a premade on the other side, because the PuGs would see via the guild tag that they have a premade of their own, and when that tag becomes known for having decent pvpers things will fall into place.

What we have now are noteworthy players spread out across different guilds, but often times people respond quicker to the guild tag instead of the player name. I mean it is silly but I have been in pugs that have given up just because the see four people from Regulators, which in all honesty is plain stupid.

It is said but when people grow to fear a guild tag a lot of people just roll over and die at the start, though same could be said when people grow to admire a guild tag, people tend to play harder and better.

So yeah, Republic side needs to really form a Super PvP guild of some kind to bring balance in the force. <The Chosen One> though I think <SUPER AWESOME HAPPY FUN TIME HOUR> would be more fitting. Might be too long though.

With so many decent imp guilds and players that group together, coupled with the lack of decent premades republic side we happen to create a void of helplessness which results in disdain for the faction in terms of pvp.
Hello and thank you for posting MahneWarrior. You bring up a valid point to this discussion in that the Republic faction does lack the PvP force the Empire faction possess. Faction population imbalances have always been an issue, but even more so post-server transfers. Besides maybe a handful of Republic guilds that can throw premades together, there really isn't much of a PvP force to be reckoned with.

As far as unifying all the noteworthy PvPers together into one common guild, that is unlikely to happen. I'm somewhat hesitant of the results of such a move as that is exactly what Game Genie/Empire/Guerrilla did, and they more or less killed the PvP community. Instead of having multiple competitive PvP guilds, they all combined into one and crushed anyone that opposed them. That doesn't help our PvP situation.

That being said, with the inclusion of 4v4 Arenas, less players involved and more accessibility could produce more competitive and active PvP on our server. There are a lot of Republic players out there that lack guild tags. I believe it is the responsibility of already established guilds to try to recruit those individuals, train them, and incorporate them into the PvP scene. More action on the parts of the guilds that already exist could help our current dilemma and improve conditions.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

CommunityDroidEU's Avatar


CommunityDroidEU
09.21.2013 , 12:25 PM | #43 This is the last staff post in this thread.  

Hi all,

Just a friendly reminder: Call-outs of players or guilds are not allowed. You can read more about call-outs here.

Aowin's Avatar


Aowin
09.21.2013 , 12:28 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Prisoner View Post
My suggestions are:

1. Give clear orders at the beginning of the game to the whole team, especially if your four man is grouped with four noobs you don't recognize. (Incidentally this was my biggest beef with GG actually - you never heard a word from them unless you ****ed up). Half of the time they won't listen to you, but a lot of the time they actually will. Continue to communicate as much as you can through the whole game. It's very, very easy to forget to do that when four or more of you are on voice.

2. If you see a noob pugger who is consistantly doing all the right things (in the right spot, focus firing, responding to inc calls), but struggling a bit because they have two pieces of partisan and zero augments - lend them a hand. If you're like us, You have a guild bank that's probably packed with mats that no one is using and probably crafters that can help fresh 55's out. But even you're not inclined or have the means to help them with their gear, an encouraging word coupled with a piece of well timed advice can go a long way. So do MVP votes (as silly as they are). Instead of just tossing them on your own team (who probably doesn't need to know how good they are), consider giving them to the noob that really put the effort out.

3. Take some freaking personal accountability for your own teams. I know that a lot of puggers can suck horribly, probably more than most because I pug most of the time now, which is why I get why people superqueue. HOWEVER... just cause you're in a premade, doesn't automatically mean that you're better than the pugs you queued in with. I have lost track of the number of times that I've seen premades do completely stupid **** and blow the game for the rest of us. I've seen premades zerg to the middle, not making sure anyone covered west (where I, the lone healer, have to run west and cap it myself). I've seen premades ignore repeated inc calls for help. I've seen them zerg around like sheep with zero situational awareness and overcommiting that leads to an enemy cap. I've seen them chase one healer around while the rest of the enemy team is taking our other node. And the list goes on...

If four of you are on voice, but you let that pug noob with no expertise on his gear in level 45 greens guard the node by themselves, you're just as much to blame when that node gets stolen as they are. If every single one of you don't have your ops frames up so you can keep an eye on the rest of your team - you're doing it wrong. And if you lose, seriously sit down and take a look at the way your premade played. Odds are it was a pugger who screwed up, but also odds are there was something you might have been able to do to minimize the damage.

Anyway, I apologize for the long post. I admire the intent here, I think it would actually be a good thing if people tried to reach out to the pugs, because the situation is only going to get worse with the f2p crowd getting unlimited warzone access soon.
Great post. If there is going to be any comprehensive effort to try to improve the quality of PUGs on TEH, especially before they receive unlimited warzone access, this is the way to do it. We have to get up close and personal, constitute the effort to get to know these players, and show our intent is pure and sincere.

Otherwise as you suggested, they will either be intimidated or uninterested in receiving any sort of help from the established guilds on the server. I can't speak for any other guilds in my faction, but certainly I will be making a personal effort to try and connect to PUGs more.

I feel it's even more of an issue for us as a PvP community to keep things running, considering we are on a RP server and not everybody is interested in this game experience. Thanks again for making this post. If anything positive should come out of this thread, it should be the suggestions you just made.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Aowin's Avatar


Aowin
09.21.2013 , 12:33 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by alexsamma View Post
If you guys really want to help the community you may be interested in this:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=672872
This is another great idea. Thanks for posting.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Psychana's Avatar


Psychana
09.21.2013 , 01:26 PM | #46
Hmm....so what we have here is yet again, more failure....

This thread has turned into ...."lets put a freindly arm round a noob, and try to make them better,".. kinda smacks of the upmost condescension imo...also...um forgive me if i am wrong...but is that NOT what guilds are about, helping your fellow guildmates attain there full potential and ensuring the game is an enjoyable experience for them ?!?!...yes, i think i read that somewhere...is a guild not also there to suppport and protect a fellow member ???....i think i read that somewhere too....

The issue here is one that is ugly, and too many times the inhabitants of this server choose to "look the other way" when things get uncomfortable for them, or simply put there head in the sand.. and do nothing...

Let me make this simple...there IS currently someone on the EH server, Masquerading as other individuals and creating bad feeling for that person by going around and saying horrid nasty things about other people in the hope of creating bad feeling and ill will towards innocent parties......why ?!?!....No one can know the mind of a sick individual...WHERE ?!??! ....RIGHT NOW on the EH.....WHO ?!?!?....No one knows...or is willing to say....

The proof is on Heatherblades Enjin wall....in the form of a Screenshot...most of her freinds have seen it, i myself was disgusted when i did, to think of someone doing this to her....a well liked and great member of the EH community is...in my opinion Abhorrent. I know its not causing her to leave the game..i know she made her mind up a few weeks ago, before all this Drama happened...but it could have..to a lesser person...

What have the great and the good members of the EH community chosen to do about this.....to my knowledge NOTHING....when they should be....I really think the Gm's of the "PvP" guilds should actually get together and talk about this, ask there members to report this to the admins in game...write tickets....especially when it has gotten this far, which is quite far enough..only when the people responsible for doing this is directly effected, and the PvP community see's that this behavior will NOT be tolerated....only then will i think people will buy into this sudden turn of altruistic events on the server....This could be interpreted as a childish rant...its not, i just wanted to make it as basic as possible do everyone that reads it know what is going on....in the vain and empty hope some people may be willing to step up, and do something real....instead of bleating about nothing...




THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE.....

Aowin's Avatar


Aowin
09.21.2013 , 02:09 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Psychana View Post
Hmm....so what we have here is yet again, more failure....

This thread has turned into ...."lets put a freindly arm round a noob, and try to make them better,".. kinda smacks of the upmost condescension imo...also...um forgive me if i am wrong...but is that NOT what guilds are about, helping your fellow guildmates attain there full potential and ensuring the game is an enjoyable experience for them ?!?!...yes, i think i read that somewhere...is a guild not also there to suppport and protect a fellow member ???....i think i read that somewhere too....

The issue here is one that is ugly, and too many times the inhabitants of this server choose to "look the other way" when things get uncomfortable for them, or simply put there head in the sand.. and do nothing...

Let me make this simple...there IS currently someone on the EH server, Masquerading as other individuals and creating bad feeling for that person by going around and saying horrid nasty things about other people in the hope of creating bad feeling and ill will towards innocent parties......why ?!?!....No one can know the mind of a sick individual...WHERE ?!??! ....RIGHT NOW on the EH.....WHO ?!?!?....No one knows...or is willing to say....

The proof is on Heatherblades Enjin wall....in the form of a Screenshot...most of her freinds have seen it, i myself was disgusted when i did, to think of someone doing this to her....a well liked and great member of the EH community is...in my opinion Abhorrent. I know its not causing her to leave the game..i know she made her mind up a few weeks ago, before all this Drama happened...but it could have..to a lesser person...

What have the great and the good members of the EH community chosen to do about this.....to my knowledge NOTHING....when they should be....I really think the Gm's of the "PvP" guilds should actually get together and talk about this, ask there members to report this to the admins in game...write tickets....especially when it has gotten this far, which is quite far enough..only when the people responsible for doing this is directly effected, and the PvP community see's that this behavior will NOT be tolerated....only then will i think people will buy into this sudden turn of altruistic events on the server....This could be interpreted as a childish rant...its not, i just wanted to make it as basic as possible do everyone that reads it know what is going on....in the vain and empty hope some people may be willing to step up, and do something real....instead of bleating about nothing...




THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE.....
Hello and thank you for posting Psychana. There is one issue in particular with your post. We do not know who committed this heinous act against Heather. We probably will never know. That being said, part of the reason I created this thread was to bring light to the fact these events are occurring on our server.

This is why I'm hoping everyone can at least be empathetic, and be spurred to action to report misbehaviors and uphold basic and decent conduct in warzones. That being said, this disgruntled player impersonating others very well could be a random PUG, or perhaps someone in an established guild. Whatever the case, trying to set a better example and helping others can go a long way to improving behavior on our server.

If I ever find out who is so cowardly and bitter to commit such atrocities against other players, I will be more than happy to report them to BioWare and hopefully everyone else will as well. Until then, setting a better example for all and trying to change the mentality of PvP on this server is a nice place to start.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Psychana's Avatar


Psychana
09.21.2013 , 02:40 PM | #48
....

okay, not sure if anyone ever told you this, but when replying to a post above you, there really is no need to quote the entire thing....really..is NO need....i stand by my words everytime i hit the enter button...

Secondly...in case IQ's have suddenly dropped, and i am not aware of it....or in case you have not been reading my posts on this thread...let me make myself perfectly clear...or give you a road map...<passes crayons and paper>

1) Everyone should report the names of the the person doing this to Heather and others in a written ticket to the Admins...and i mean everyone that has an interest in the community of PvP flourish on the EH...if enough people do it...they will take action, hopefully resulting in a ban...even a 24 hour one is sometimes enough to take stock of your own actions, and adjust there behavior. This would send a message, not only to the person involved, the admins at BW, but to the server as a whole...showing that this type of behavior will not be tolerated in the community. There is no need to have "names"...the admins can actually find out that stuff and then act, if enough people actually are bothered to make a stand and be united.

2) The Gm's of big PvP guilds take stock of the situation, and actively encourage better habits amongst there members, the scrapping of double queueing in WZ's, warning there members about trashtalking when its reported to them, all of the antisocial behavior, backed up by screen shots ofcourse...and the GM's and officers of those guild acting on that information in order to show that they will not tolerate it....and that it is not acceptable to conduct yourself in that manner, and still remain a member of that guild...and this STARTS with the GM's and officers...if not..it will fail.

3) I am all for "help a noob"...infact i have done it many times myself, and i have taken quite a few players under my wing and nutured there development, and the rewards for this is great, seeing someones game enhanced by there own self confidence and belief, there skill set widen and them become "better than noob" is amazing..infact one of the posters in this Thread, a great member of the EH community once helped me...a debt i still owe, and know i can never repay, to this day.....so i have been there...and i know the feelings it can bring.

4) GM's and officers stopping the mentality of "my guild is better than yours"....it has to come right from the top..only then can the behavior of members be moderated, and expected to change...(this i believe can never happen)

5) Actively encouraging people to join your voice comms for matches..i know SC still has a relatively open policy about freinds of players and ex members popping into there voice comms...and i am sure if Pano ( GM SC) felt it would bring more positives to the EH server, would probably endorse this behavior.

6) Communication, and yet more communication between GM's of guilds, if a player has been a "questionable" member, and you see they leave your guild, and join another.....have a word with the GM of there new guild, as a courtesy, explain events and let them know the potential harm a member could do to there guild, and its reputation.

I dont see any of these suggestions happening anytime soon, too many people have the mentality of "its only a game" or ..."I dont care about others" attitude...asking for suggestions or even discussing this is about as useful of putting a band aid on an arm thats just been ripped off by a great white shark...

Untill the GM's, officers and players of EH begin to take positive action.....nothing will change...all this talking does if clog up forums, and waste peoples playing time....imho, but i like to throw my 2 cents in anyway...get it off my chest !

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
09.21.2013 , 04:19 PM | #49
Hello, I came here via following the dev tracker. I'm on Vanjervalis Chain, I'm sorry.

This discussion is interesting. There's much to comment on, but i think that it wouldn't be a very ggood ideaif I did, since I'm from another server.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aowin View Post
Hello and thank you for posting MahneWarrior. You bring up a valid point to this discussion in that the Republic faction does lack the PvP force the Empire faction possess. Faction population imbalances have always been an issue, but even more so post-server transfers. Besides maybe a handful of Republic guilds that can throw premades together, there really isn't much of a PvP force to be reckoned with.
In one discussion, someone has put forth the theory of Republic side players either being - as a tendency - "carebears" or older and/or more "casual" players i general.

Which would be at least a possible explanation to tell why there's faction imbalance.

However, there are servers, where the Republic side is dominating, and on others, it's the empire's side.

I have the suspicion that the Empire faction attracts rather - as a tendency - the opposite of "carebears". Rather aggressive players. And perhaps younger players as well. But - that's still merely a suspicion, nothing solid at all.


Regarding bullying : I've been reading through the German PvP forums. (Since I'm a German-language player.)
Yes, there's drama, bullying and imsulting going on. Or - at least it was going on until the server transfers came.

What they did there is something they called "forums-PvP. Insulting, bullying, everything was possible, but what appeared in the forums was usually only a weak hint towards what had happened in TS before.

Another thing I learnedis that it's usually men bullying women in PvP - not the other way round. In one case, an female organisator of an PvP meeting in-game was bullied and insulted via TS. My personal impression was - not so much because she was a bad player - she had been organizing this kind of meeting, in fact ! - but rather because she was a woman.
This thing has never been fully resolved within the forums. To outsiders, it was an rather vague thing.

From all of these forum entries I drew my very personal impression that it is pretty normal for some players to insult others. I's like some kind of sport for them - to insult each other.
And if ANYONE gets between them - they receive full fire, too.

I have no idea how this can be dealt with. Because to this kind of players, it's just a natural thing, to insult each other. At least that's my personal impression I saw.
“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)

Nomaad's Avatar


Nomaad
09.22.2013 , 12:12 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by CommunityDroidEU View Post

Hi all,

Just a friendly reminder: Call-outs of players or guilds are not allowed. You can read more about call-outs here.

Another person coming in here stealing my /popcorn
take a seat bro and a number.
It's never what it is, only what it can be.

Ded'i