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Did Revan fall in the end *spoilers*

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Did Revan fall in the end *spoilers*

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
07.20.2013 , 03:03 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Lol, now I can accuse you of ignoring evidence as well, How ironic. At least I make an attempt to reconcile the evidence with eachother.
By stating that the Emperor's true body died, you are in fact choosing to ignore evidence in the game that suggests otherwise.

Quote:
Yes, this is the part were I refer you to Hall Hood who's statements directly contradicts that - "...the Emperor's body does die" and led to my theory-crafting. Something I'm afraid you are no longer able to dispute. And as far as I'm concerned out-of-universe statements are superior to character statements. Which for the record are not officially canon. Dance around it all you like but in the end their is only one way to interpret this - the Emperor's real body is dead, not his Voice. Else Hood wouldn't deliberately have made the distinction. Unless you have an alternative explanation for this?
The fact remains that I believe you are taking his wording out of context.

From listening to the podcast, it's fairly obvious that Hall Hood is not trying to give away much, when it comes to info pertaining to the game's direction but he does go so far as to say that the Emperor experiencing a bodily death in the JK finale would not be the first time. However, one can easily assume this is a reference to the death of one of his Voices, as seen in the SW and JK storyline.

You, for whatever reason, seem to ignore what is logical and start grasping at straws, going so far as to say - in the past at least - that the Emperor's Hand was lying. I find that LOL worthy to be honest.

And no, I feel that info given in-game is actually more relevant than the one given for a writer, especially one who wasn't responsable for every single storyline in the game. It should also be noted that Hall Hood messed up this one time, when it comes to info concerning the Imperial Agent storyline, one where he had no bearing whatsoever if I understand correctly.

Quote:
And of course you can say, things may have changed. And I would totally accept that argument. Because in the end the Emperor fate is 'unclear'. Until verified in game his fate hangs in the balance. However the statement is at least grounds for theorising, which I'm afraid you are no longer at liberty to reject entirely. You must understand that in the end the evidence you are presenting to me is largely subjective, while mine is objective.
So the evidence I present, taken from the game, is subjective, while yours, based on a podcast, is actually objective? You got to be joking for sure.

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However what frustrates me the most is your inability to comprehend my whole argument. From the very beginning I was only arguing that the Emperor experienced a bodily death. Please bottle your over-inflated arrogance and pay attention, quoted from the very beginning of this thread:
What I find far more puzzling, not to say paradoxical, is the fact you've been proven wrong and you're now trying to sidestep from that, really. Simple...

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=627297&page=2

Clicking on the above link, there are numerous instances were you defended that the Emperor not only experienced a bodily death, but an actual permanent death, as in, NOT coming back. Such has been proven false numerous times since then.

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You seem to be disagreeing with me for the sake of it right now. Really its quite petty how worked up about this you are getting. Are you incapable of agreeing with any one on any level? Or perhpas you have a personal vendetta against me because I was 'fabricating evidence' - well given recent evidence I'd hope you'd be able to drop that. Seems not.
First of all, I'm not exactly getting worked up, since I have no need to, not to mention I don't have or feel the need to actually question at every turn the info the game provides. That would be your case, surely not mine.

Also, your recent evidence doesn't supercede the in-game information, like I mentioned already. I won't even go around the Vendetta stuff, since it sounds kinda silly really... This is an argument about a game, in case you failed to notice.

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P.S. For the record I own and have read the SWTOR Encyclopedia, I've completed the Sith Warrior storyline and I've read the Revan novel, I'm afraid I fail to see your point.
Then if you did, I find it a bit puzzling that you're unable to grasp the function behind the Emperor's Voice and why it is silly to assume that the Emperor's true body would've died in the confrontation with the Jedi Knight, not to mention...

That the Emperor's Hand states that the Emperor's body was moved to a safe location by the Imperial Guard.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
07.20.2013 , 05:10 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
Once again, that's your opinion, not fact.

For me and most people I'd assume, given that's it's SW here, I'll assume that a character only dies when I see his dead body lying on the floor and even then, we all know that it may mean nothing at all.

Given the fact that we all see Revan vanishing in a flash, you're just clutching to an idea that is not actually there: You never actually see Revan experiencing a physical death, where his body is just charred on the floor. Period. Get over it.
No, as of now, that is a fact. Given this is SW, you can look in the "bible of SW" (ie original trilogy) where Obi-wan's and Yoda's physical deaths caused their bodies to disappear. In case of Revan it is even more illustrative, since his body is devoured by the energy, much like it would be evaporated by the immense heat.

I mean you can delude yourself but it won't change anything. As of current state, Revan is physically dead. Get over it.

But I am fully aware that they are capable of bringing him back to rehash the whole thing over and over again. If they do something as stupid and unoriginal as that, I will uninstall the game and simply ignore it from that point on. I have a very low tolerance for ridiculous stuff.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

discbox's Avatar


discbox
07.20.2013 , 05:18 PM | #63
Revan went to the Unknown Regions in KotOR II to find the True Sith. At this point the story should go on. But it didn't.

I don't know and I don't care who this person is, in TOR, calling himself 'Revan'. But he is not Revan for me. It's just fool babbling nonsense. Maybe he believes he is Revan, but it's only because he is insane.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
07.20.2013 , 05:24 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by discbox View Post
Revan went to the Unknown Regions in KotOR II to find the True Sith. At this point the story should go on. But it didn't.

I don't know and I don't care who this person is, in TOR, calling himself 'Revan'. But he is not Revan for me. It's just fool babbling nonsense. Maybe he believes he is Revan, but it's only because he is insane.
Well thank you for reminding me that Revan's storyline in TOR is one huge pile of crap and is not even worth arguing about.

Revan went to the Unknown Regions and anything beyond that should be a mystery. They should have left it alone altogether.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
07.20.2013 , 05:41 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
The fact remains that I believe you are taking his wording out of context.
But surely that makes the entire answer irrelevant? Surely, he is merely telling us what we have already been told, that the Emperor's Voice is dead? Or if we do not jump to that conclusion, that a part of the Emperor was destroyed. But that is blatantly obvious, we all saw something die. To me, by saying 'the Emperor's body' and that the Emperor was defeated means he is referring to the Emperor specifically, not his Voice. This I feel, barring the message you receive from the Hands, makes the most sense - most importantly why it had such a massive effect on him, why he said 'if I must die, everything dies with me' and why the Hero of Tython was prophesied to defeat the Emperor, not his Voice. Of course we can't just pretend the Hand's didn't say anything. But is must be reconciled with the opposing evidence, and as character statements they are highly flexible.

And really, the direction of game is going seems to indicate this is the case. The Emperor has not yet returned, the Dark Council and the Republic believe he is dead, even the Emperor's Wrath says he's dead in body, but not in spirit. Noting that if it was a Voice, he would not be dead in body. Unless of course, his true body no longer exists.

Also, you don't seem to being understanding the distinction between in-game statements and out-of-game statements. In game statements are interpretable, they take the form of opinion, and are subject to character fallacies, traits etc. The Jedi Council in KOTOR lied to the player about his identity for example. Out-of-universe quotes should be taken as objective, the whole canon system revolves around sourcebooks, George Lucas statements etc. When a statement is made by a writer from BioWare, we should not believe that he is lying, as ulterior motives etc.

And finally, again, I find it bizarre how radically you have misinterpreted me. When my opinion was clearly stated in the opening post. When I said the Emperor is dead I meant bodily death, I never said he died completely and infact speculated his return. This was my opinion from the start and is clearly evident from the very first post in the thread. You have misunderstood my words, plain and simple. My apologies if I mislead you.

P.S. I'd also point out that along with being the Lead Writer, Hall Hood is also the writer of the Jedi Knight story. His word should be taken as gospel in relation to the topic.

Brittaany_Banks's Avatar


Brittaany_Banks
07.20.2013 , 06:30 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
I mean I know some stupid writer can always come with some idiotic idea to bring dead character back but, as of this moment, he is dead.
*cough Boba Fett *cough*
I don't care who you are. I don't care if you are male, or female, black, or white, gay, or straight, religious, or non-religious, old or young. I care about 3 things. Can you tank properly? Can you DPS properly? Can you heal properly?
#GamerGate

Brittaany_Banks's Avatar


Brittaany_Banks
07.20.2013 , 06:32 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by discbox View Post
Revan went to the Unknown Regions in KotOR II to find the True Sith. At this point the story should go on. But it didn't.

I don't know and I don't care who this person is, in TOR, calling himself 'Revan'. But he is not Revan for me. It's just fool babbling nonsense. Maybe he believes he is Revan, but it's only because he is insane.
There is only ONE person who knows Darth Malaks final words. Those words are echoed by Revan prior to being consumed. There is no doubt the Revan in that battle is THE Revan.
I don't care who you are. I don't care if you are male, or female, black, or white, gay, or straight, religious, or non-religious, old or young. I care about 3 things. Can you tank properly? Can you DPS properly? Can you heal properly?
#GamerGate

Kaisernick's Avatar


Kaisernick
07.21.2013 , 05:44 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
As people mentioned repeatedly in this thread, it was just an homage and / or reference to what Malak says, in his dying breath, at the end of KoTOR. Not exactly proof that he kicked the bucket or anything...
i think hes dead.
now weather his spirit has departed is another thing.

hadoken's Avatar


hadoken
07.22.2013 , 08:13 AM | #69
Pretty sure during beta there was enough outcry over a bunch of level 40s killing Revan for them to remove the corpse and put in the flash of light business - that doesn't change my opinion that it was intended he's dead. Just a way for them to soften the blow to Revan fanatics :P

frankiejo's Avatar


frankiejo
07.22.2013 , 11:38 AM | #70
Tupac ain't really dead and gone.

I think Revan could stand to return in a later flashpoint, perhaps tied in someway with the fate/return of the emperor. The two characters contrast each other very well, both antagonistic in their relation to the players (Revan trying to genocide the empire, emperor trying to do the same to the Galaxy) and the canon has duscussed how much of the emperors preparation are done solely because he fears Revan, and Vice versa. They form a sort of unofficial factional symbolism (Well emperor may be official, but seeing as no one in the empire ever meets him, he's kind of got a mystique not unlike Revan to the republic)
Bergeron Colony
Khaeldar - Marauder
Beth'adone - Operative
P-Chloride - Sorcerer