Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Worst AC in 2.2? Assassin/Shadow.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Worst AC in 2.2? Assassin/Shadow.

NogueiraA's Avatar


NogueiraA
06.20.2013 , 08:21 PM | #1
PVE: As a DPS this AC has no spot on raids to clear NiM or even HM S&V.
Deception and Madness can't to do the numbers that marauder/sniper/mercenary do.
It's the worst tank atm, spiky as hell, no mitigation compared to PT/Vanguard and Jugg/Guardian. As a healer I can't waste a GCD healing other targets, my tank will lose 50%HP in 2sec.

PVP:
Deception is very nice, you can burst damage like a truck, the changes made deception a nightmare for healers.
Madness is easily cleansed and healed.
Tank assassin in PVP is viable because of the team utility, pull, speed, sap etc.

Powertech/Vanguard and Assassin/Shadow are the worst DPS atm, but at least PT/Van they're the best tank.

Thoughts?

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
06.20.2013 , 08:27 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
no mitigation compared to PT/Vanguard and Jugg/Guardian.
Mitigation is the *one* thing Shadows do the best right now. It's rendered completely redundant by the absurd level of spikiness, but it's misleading to claim that Shadows don't have the absolute best mean mitigation.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Luckeyduckey's Avatar


Luckeyduckey
06.20.2013 , 08:27 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
PVE: As a DPS this AC has no spot on raids to clear NiM or even HM S&V.
Deception and Madness can't to do the numbers that marauder/sniper/mercenary do.
It's the worst tank atm, spiky as hell, no mitigation compared to PT/Vanguard and Jugg/Guardian. As a healer I can't waste a GCD healing other targets, my tank will lose 50%HP in 2sec.

PVP:
Deception is very nice, you can burst damage like a truck, the changes made deception a nightmare for healers.
Madness is easily cleansed and healed.
Tank assassin in PVP is viable because of the team utility, pull, speed, sap etc.

Powertech/Vanguard and Assassin/Shadow are the worst DPS atm, but at least PT/Van they're the best tank.

Thoughts?
PvP wise it's fine. Deception's damage is on par, with some massive burst. But PvE wise, it's very lacking, in both departments.
Expløit
Ønslaught
Eradicate

Helig's Avatar


Helig
06.21.2013 , 12:24 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
PVE: As a DPS this AC has no spot on raids to clear NiM or even HM S&V.
Deception and Madness can't to do the numbers that marauder/sniper/mercenary do.
It's the worst tank atm, spiky as hell, no mitigation compared to PT/Vanguard and Jugg/Guardian. As a healer I can't waste a GCD healing other targets, my tank will lose 50%HP in 2sec.
PVP:
Deception is very nice, you can burst damage like a truck, the changes made deception a nightmare for healers.
Madness is easily cleansed and healed.
Tank assassin in PVP is viable because of the team utility, pull, speed, sap etc.

Powertech/Vanguard and Assassin/Shadow are the worst DPS atm, but at least PT/Van they're the best tank.

Thoughts?
Like Kitru said, the mitigation is great, the spikiness is not. Selfhealing, which is not an insignificant part of Shadow tanks's survivability, does not scale with damage received, which results in Shadow tanks being slightly overtuned for regular content, and slightly undertuned for Nightmare content.
Wish Battle Readiness had a shorter cooldown >_<

Zero PvP complaints on my (primarily Kinetic) Shadow and almost exclusively Deception Sin. Tankasins have an absolutely amazing set of tactical tools available. Deception is 1v1 king. Ideal for solo node caps.

Granted, I don't PvE on my Shadow/Sin a whole lot, but I can understand how aggravating can this "class limbo" be if that's your main character. BW will come around. They have to.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Necroscop's Avatar


Necroscop
06.21.2013 , 01:03 AM | #5
They need some work for pve but only to dps as a tank there is nothing wrong with them shadow can tank easy everything plus he does more damage than guardian. But PvP I would say they need nerf it make me lough what I can do in pvp with shadow its like playing godlike. I can interrupt indefinitely while I’m in stealth. I can kill 1vs1 while my opponent its cc and cannot even defend himself. I can do 500k damage and 500k protection in one WZ now try to play jugger tank you will never pull more than 200k damage they only good in protection healers. So I would say from my experience playing jugger and shadow as tanks 2 of them are fine for PvE for PvP shadow need nerf.
Damage will be hard for BW to fix as in PvE shadow dps lacks but in PvP they overpower due to their stealth and possibility to cc target while they kill it if I have now more dps in pvp OMG I could cc and kill even faster while my target cannot defend himself. This would be just crazy.
Necroscop (Jugger-Tank 60) Necroscope(Jugger-Tank 55)
Bastilashan (Sorc-DPS 60) Dweller (Merc- DPS-heal 60)
Necro(Sniper-DPS 60) Necroscop(Assassin-DPS 55)
Canker (Scoundrel-Heal 55)Skullguise (Sentinel-DPS 60)
Ferrenzig (Shadow-Tank 55) Lichloathe(Commando-DPS 55)
Necrosco’p (Guardian-Tank 60) Necroscop'e (PT-Tank 55)

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
06.21.2013 , 04:11 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
PVE: As a DPS this AC has no spot on raids to clear NiM or even HM S&V.
Bullcrap.
People saying this are simply pulling out stuff from their arses.
My guild is NOWHERE near hardcore.
We killed the first boss in TFB NiM on the FIRST try, with a shadow dps. And a very mediocre commando dps, barely breaking 2400 dps on a dummy (that would be me).

Sure maybe we won't kill the DG right now, but general consensus is that they're overtuned anyway.

S&V Hm is a WALK IN THE PARK, the only moderately difficult fight is the last one, and still we beat it with no problem with that shadow dps regularly in our group and I can assure you that he's not getting carried, if anything it's the opposite.

Kitru has already touched the (real) issues shadow tanks have but let's get this out of the way: SWTOR is NOT a difficult game, PVE wise. Aside from hiccups like the DG overtuning and current shadow situation, the content is doable with much worse gear and suboptimal compositions and even suboptimal personal dps/mitigation/healing output than the best you can achieve.

Shadow may or may not be the "worst ac". It's still truly and completely IRRELEVANT and people that make statements like the one quoted above should have the right of speech removed from the forums. Yes I'm pissed (as much as you can get pissed by writing a long and elaborate post on a forum), because that kind of attitude ruins games for *everybody* and also it's the same kind of thinking and behaving that creates FOTM classes.

So, drop it. I have already proven that statement wrong. I'm sure plenty of other people can do the same.
Light Knights: Gecko - Syed - Vor'sann - Joya
Nightmare's Legion: Anhess - Avilus - Wittard - Schroedinger

HTPRO's Avatar


HTPRO
06.21.2013 , 05:59 AM | #7
LoL u mad bro?

Shadow / assassin is the worst DPS class in the game as far as PVE goes. You may clear NiM content with 4 shadow DPS however you'd have much easier time doing so with other (= better classes).

GeckoOBac's Avatar


GeckoOBac
06.21.2013 , 06:59 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by HTPRO View Post
LoL u mad bro?

Shadow / assassin is the worst DPS class in the game as far as PVE goes. You may clear NiM content with 4 shadow DPS however you'd have much easier time doing so with other (= better classes).
You may want to re read my post. It may or may not be the worst dps class. Given the fact that you can clear the hardest tier of content with it, it makes the question irrelevant.

The problem arises when people like the OP start saying stuff like "you shouldn't bring one EVEREVEREVER". This ostracizes players, creates a FALSE idea about how the game works and generates a wholly unhealthy environment for what is a game.

Again, just to make it even clearer for you: I'm not saying ANYTHING about whether shadow is best/worst. I'm saying that it's stupid, close minded and ignorant to make that kind of statement.
Light Knights: Gecko - Syed - Vor'sann - Joya
Nightmare's Legion: Anhess - Avilus - Wittard - Schroedinger

PavelH's Avatar


PavelH
06.21.2013 , 07:45 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by HTPRO View Post
LoL u mad bro?

Shadow / assassin is the worst DPS class in the game as far as PVE goes. You may clear NiM content with 4 shadow DPS however you'd have much easier time doing so with other (= better classes).
Our main tank is a shadow, and we have an infiltration shadow dps on most raids (that would be me), and we have not seen issues due to lack of dps.
granted, we have not tried TFB NiM yet, but in fair fights (that is the ones where there are no AoEable mobs) i stay competitive with our other dps (according to mox), maybe except for the sentinel (but he lacks the saps, ninja-res and ability to step in temporarily when tank dies).

all in all, infiltration shadows might not be the best class dps wise, but the "support" abilities make up for it IMHO, and it certainly is fun to play!

Helig's Avatar


Helig
06.21.2013 , 02:13 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by PavelH View Post
Our main tank is a shadow, and we have an infiltration shadow dps on most raids (that would be me), and we have not seen issues due to lack of dps.
granted, we have not tried TFB NiM yet, but in fair fights (that is the ones where there are no AoEable mobs) i stay competitive with our other dps (according to mox), maybe except for the sentinel (but he lacks the saps, ninja-res and ability to step in temporarily when tank dies).

all in all, infiltration shadows might not be the best class dps wise, but the "support" abilities make up for it IMHO, and it certainly is fun to play!
Eh, which raid-relevant support skills does Infiltration have? Nerve Whacking doesn't apply if the target isn't stunned, does it?
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie