Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Kitru's New Class Idea

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Kitru's New Class Idea

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
06.20.2013 , 02:26 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by Heathenblood View Post
I like your idea for a new class but this. Every class has their own primary stat and adding a new stat would be more preferred to me.
This issue was discussed pretty heavily early on in the thread (in fact, I think it was one of the first "this idea is awesome but you should change this" comments). My point has regularly been that adding a new stat to a game is pretty much *always* more effort than it's worth: you have to create and itemize an entirely new set of gear from 1-50, add the stat to *everyone* while determining what the standard effect of said new primary stat happens to be (look at Cunning and Aim for Force users: it still applies the effects to Tech and ranged abilities because those are the *standard* function) and adding a new standard effect for a primary attribute is going to be difficult: all of the attack types are already covered as well as companion improvement. It's not like there's some uncovered ground as far as this is concerned.

Now, something that I *have* been mulling over is making it so that the classes have *2* primary attributes: Cunning and Strength, similar to how HK-51 has Aim and Cunning both as primary stats. It would mean that all medium armor would be applicable and useful, as well as those annoying Cunning pieces with tank stats on them, while distributing the competition across a larger number of people, limiting the impact. Yes, it would mean that there would be more options available to this class, but I think that's an acceptable compromise, since it provides an interesting construct for the class itself. It also lends itself to the idea that Echani is a mental discipline as it is a physical discipline.

It also allows me to apply the same design to the *other* class I'm working on with the other 2 primary stats (Willpower and Aim), which actually works out quite a bit better for some of the split themes I've been working towards...
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
06.20.2013 , 02:29 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
Neat idea. but why not give it a Tech Staff if its a tech class? that would be a neat use for Tech Staves.
Tech Staves are, by default, Aim weapons. I wouldn't be adverse to them being an option for the Fencer/Gladiator (similar to how a Sage can use a Vibroblade rather than Lightsaber if they want to swap out the mods or a Shadow can use an Electrostaff), but I would still want the Double Vibroblade to be there as the "default" weapon (since it's so intuitively tied to the Echani backstory).
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Heathenblood's Avatar


Heathenblood
06.20.2013 , 02:34 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
This issue was discussed pretty heavily early on in the thread (in fact, I think it was one of the first "this idea is awesome but you should change this" comments). My point has regularly been that adding a new stat to a game is pretty much *always* more effort than it's worth: you have to create and itemize an entirely new set of gear from 1-50, add the stat to *everyone* while determining what the standard effect of said new primary stat happens to be (look at Cunning and Aim for Force users: it still applies the effects to Tech and ranged abilities because those are the *standard* function) and adding a new standard effect for a primary attribute is going to be difficult: all of the attack types are already covered as well as companion improvement. It's not like there's some uncovered ground as far as this is concerned.

Now, something that I *have* been mulling over is making it so that the classes have *2* primary attributes: Cunning and Strength, similar to how HK-51 has Aim and Cunning both as primary stats. It would mean that all medium armor would be applicable and useful, as well as those annoying Cunning pieces with tank stats on them, while distributing the competition across a larger number of people, limiting the impact. Yes, it would mean that there would be more options available to this class, but I think that's an acceptable compromise, since it provides an interesting construct for the class itself. It also lends itself to the idea that Echani is a mental discipline as it is a physical discipline.

It also allows me to apply the same design to the *other* class I'm working on with the other 2 primary stats (Willpower and Aim), which actually works out quite a bit better for some of the split themes I've been working towards...
Sorry didn't read through the comments just the OP(s). And yeah I see where that makes sense. Anyways good post I hope devs see it and maybe take action based off your ideas.
-Heathenblood

Warforever's Avatar


Warforever
06.24.2013 , 12:05 PM | #104
Sooo...with the throat strike...would the character have to jump in the air just to reach a human throat, since it seems like they are shorter than hobbits? lol.

Great idea. But if you can choose the race...how would they look, how would the animations look if one is a guardian?
How does one earn a Bronze Star but not a CAB or CIB

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
06.24.2013 , 12:11 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by Warforever View Post
Sooo...with the throat strike...would the character have to jump in the air just to reach a human throat, since it seems like they are shorter than hobbits?

Great idea. But if you can choose the race...how would they look, how would the animations look if one is a guardian?
It's not a race. It's a class (hence the new "class idea" thing, not "race idea"). You can't be a Guardian because you're choosing to be an Infighter/Fencer ("Echani" is like the "Jedi" or "Sith" for those classes; i.e. Jedi Guardian v. Guardian, Sith Juggernaut v. Juggernaut, Echani Infighter v. Infighter). Even if it *were* a race, the Echani are actually slightly *taller* than the average human.

I'm not even sure where you got your information from since it's wrong on pretty much *every* level...
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

SWALPEG's Avatar


SWALPEG
06.25.2013 , 03:05 AM | #106
I don't know if this would even factor into your character creation. I just played through the part on the Sith Inquistor story with the force wielding Jawa and it got me thinking. What if they introduce a whole new set of four classes by introducing a new faction. This faction would be a neutral group that functions as a coalition united in their desire to not take sides per say but are active in the war. Their goal is simply to ensure that the fighting ends sooner rather than later and with the the galaxy as intact as possible, preferably with the empire and republic finding true peace even if the idea is far fetched.
This new faction could be made up of the Echani, alien gray Force Users like the Jawas, Mandalorian dissidents that think the new Mandalore is just an imperial puppet, Hutt gangster, etc. (The Jawas as force users could bring droids to life, using their knowledge of technology and the force, to fight for them and such) I think it could bring about an interesting flavor to the game, allow players to be some really unknown races relative to the mainstream knowledge, and deal with the any balancing issues that would arise by putting in new classes.
I do realize this would be a MAJOR expansion and would probably take months if not a full year to even make, but I think it would be really worth it. New worlds, new races, new classes, new everything. BW could charge a fair price for it too and many people would pay for it. They could even use the time to implement a type of voting system were they make 6-8 class ideas some number of new races, I would say at least one for each class if not two, and everyone votes for their favorites. Those would be the four that get made. I think all in all they could make the whole thing a fun experience and really create a new dynamic.
I mean, the lore talks about Gray Jedi and balancing the force and so on but we still have two major factions, one light and one dark. There is nothing there to motivate or even reward those who want to play a force neutral character, in fact one could say there are even penalties even though they are not heavy or even noticeable. You even have the whole Hutts trying to stay neutral and play both sides thing. Why not incorporate this into the new faction.
It isn't like this faction is another good guy on the scene, the idea is that there is no clear definition. Just a group of smaller factions banding together to avoid getting swallowed up by either the empire or the republic. Imagine the tension and story plots that could be going on. In Operations and Warzones you can pick a side just so that the devs don't have change old content too much. I think people can get the general idea of where i'm going. I'm curious to see if any of this would be something people would want or not and whether the devs would even be interested in going in this direction. Doubt I will get any response from devs but if this thread stays popular who knows. Let the meat grinder, I mean critiques, commence.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
06.25.2013 , 02:05 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by SWALPEG View Post
What if they introduce a whole new set of four classes by introducing a new faction.
New faction almost always add a *lot* more problems than they're worth. The biggest concern, which isn't even a lore one, is that it splits the player base into 3 distinct sections rather than 2. It thins the population that players can interact with, which is *really* not good. Plus, a new faction would require a *lot* more development time, since you're not just talking about a new expansion, you're talking about a new *game* since you've got to create an entirely new slew of planets, zones on existing shared planets, missions for that faction (since you can't get cross-faction missions), etc. It's just not worth it. Were it not for the desire for open world PvP and interfaction strife in lore, I'm pretty sure that it would be effective to go with the most efficient (if a bit boring) way to set up a game with only a single faction so you that you can maximize inter-player interaction and minimize required developmental effort by maximizing shared resources.

Basically, it's very unlikely since it would do bad things to the community while requiring a *lot* of development, moreso even than a full expansion (rather than the "half" expansion that RotHC was).

[quote]This new faction could be made up of the Echani, alien gray Force Users like the Jawas, Mandalorian dissidents that think the new Mandalore is just an imperial puppet, Hutt gangster, etc.[/INDENT]
The Echani (as a race or collection of planets) are explicitly part of the Republic. They fought in the Mandalorian Wars as generals and soldiers, right alongside the Jedi. They had representation within the Republic. You'd have to come up with a damned good reason for them to *leave* the Republic (which I'm not even sure is possible without some sort of major secession movement, like what happened in the prequel trilogy; unless you're Corellia of course, because Corellia is Corellia and does what it wants and no one can do a damned thing about it).

Jawas, on the other hands, aren't going to be made into a playable race mainly because they use nonstandard skeletons and have next to no appreciable customization options (*every* Jawa would be tiny and have a robe that obscures their face). They also don't speak Basic. The basic requirements of a playable race that can be implemented without a *lot* of messing around with the game are that it must fit with *all* existing skeletons (body types 1-4 for male and female; no multiple arms or strangely placed heads since those modify the skeleton), uses the same gear slots as every other race (which excludes droids since droids have a unique gear slot set up), speak Basic (so that there isn't a separate racial voiceover), and have visible gear modification (so that, as you get change gear, your appearance changes more than tangentially, which is why we won't get wookiees as a playable race).

As to Grey Jedi, they're *technically* still part of the order. Grey Jedis, within this time frame, aren't a separatist movement from the Order and, honestly, they never really are. At most, you'll have some minor non-Jedi *sects* of force aware people that follow a "grey" construct but the Grey Jedi exist more as a variant philosophy within the Jedi Order itself rather than a unique faction. Also, you can already play a Grey or Dark Jedi in game with LS and DS points. The Republic isn't the "light side" faction any more than the Sith are the "dark side" faction. They have *tendencies*, but it's by no means defining.

The closest you could get to your idea would be Force Adepts, who are force users that exist outside of the Jedi/Sith Orders with their own, often unique or variant, powers. The second class attached to this class idea is actually based off of the Force Adept construct (though, for the pet AC, I go with beast empathy rather than mechanokinesis or machine empathy). I've kind of stalled because of lack of interest in it, but I might finish it off just for completion's sake one of these days.

Quote:
we still have two major factions, one light and one dark.
The factions aren't "light" and "dark". You are not forced to be dark side in the Empire, nor are you forced to be light side in the Republic. In fact, the *canon* storyline is *always* the light side option, by command of the SW license holders. Any Dark Side choices you make are, for all intents and purposes, just "What ifs".

Adding a third faction that's trying to remain neutral doesn't really work for a *player* faction. Player's are *decisive* and that doesn't work with remaining neutral. Neutral factions that each side has to woo (or specifically chooses to remain neutral for whatever reason) are more appropriate for groups that players *deal with*. Neutral parties avoid conflict and players pretty much *live* to join conflicts so as to force their actions into resolving the conflict. Unless there were a 3-way war, it just wouldn't really work out (and adding a third faction to TOR would make *no* sense in the story).
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

SgtSpit's Avatar


SgtSpit
06.30.2013 , 01:27 PM | #108
Love the idea, the mechanics for the ACs are thorough, but seem to leave significant room for..PvP breaking; specifically Air spec fencer/gladiator. Sounds as though it could very easily turn out to be the "what if" that everyone considers regarding a twisted combination of combat sentinels(canrage marauders) and infiltration shadows(deception assassins). Not saying anything solid on it, just a consideration you may want to keep.
Also, you may want to consider turning Intuition into a stackable buff type of resource (much like fury/centering); it would allow a spec or AC to have an easily extendable resource to define it over the others. Again, just a thought.

Sardonyyx's Avatar


Sardonyyx
07.01.2013 , 12:20 PM | #109
So you want a monk class. Great ideas, but its been done before.


Having said that the story was good, BW could do a lot worse, and probably will when/if they come out with a new class.
What we really need is a Mezzer class, I want some power regen.

TheFlowrescent's Avatar


TheFlowrescent
07.05.2013 , 11:44 PM | #110
I commend you for taking the time and effort to develop these classes. They sound like something I would definitely like to play. The stories were interesting, the companions unique, and I liked that you added lore between the two new classes. Great job, and I agree you should work for Bioware and make these classes happen!
The Day ToR is released is the day my social life dies.

Pssh your sith powers don't stand a chance against me.