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Worth it to double up on orbital strike pvp bonus?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Gunslinger / Sniper
Worth it to double up on orbital strike pvp bonus?

paowee's Avatar


paowee
05.01.2013 , 01:45 PM | #11
Theorycrafting fun!

5 ticks of Orbital instead of 3 (no pvp bonus) or 4 (1 2-pc pvp bonus).. in HM SnV

I can see the extra ticks as a good "safety net" to make sure your OS will hit as much adds as they can. Titan-6, Thrasher Snipers, pre-cast in Operations Chief to hit the probes, EXTRA TICKS on Olok the Shadow's puzzle phase on droids that are adjacent to each other, and the extra tick useful in Styrak's various "phases" as well (the phase where adds close in on you comes to mind).

In HM TFB, pre-casting earlier for the jealous male adds in Writhing horror, more ticks on DG Council if your raid decides to just screw mechanics and stack the bosses up for AoE, extra ticks in between Operator boss phases, extra tick on the final burn phase of Kephess and Terror From Beyond.

I can imagine the extra tick will be useful for burn phases or soft enrages. In those 1-3 minute burn phases, i'd imagine the extra tick will contribute more than the extra ~40 cunning. If that last tick of Orbital hits (and if you can use it twice in one burn phase (especially as MM who have their OS at 45 seconds), that is around 14,000 more damage in my gear.

A) I think the extra tick will benefit MM greatly due to their fast casted and 45 sec OS.

B) Engineering Snipers have the luxury of having 2 talents that buff OS (which should comprise at least 10% of their single target sustained dmg). If you look at this pie chart for the 2951 arkanian gear dummy parse http://i.imgur.com/C2Fyn40.png Orbital Strike is up there in your priority list if you check out the % of damage done.

  1. Scatter Bomb
  2. SoS
  3. OS = PP = Snipe
  4. IP = EP + Cluster Bombs
  5. CD

An extra Orbital tick may be a good choice for Engineering.

C) Lethality/Hybrid.. now that I am not sure of. I may prefer keeping my 2-pc PVE bonus just because I have the most energy problems with this spec. I'm not saying that there ARE energy problems with this spec, but i find that i have come to rely on the energy boost that the 2-pc pve bonus gives when im trying to push my DPS.
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CoppertheBeagle's Avatar


CoppertheBeagle
05.01.2013 , 03:05 PM | #12
I agree with you on that. The hybrid spec is very difficult to energy manage but i spent some time figuring that stuff out and actually its not too terrible without it. it definitely requires much more energy management awareness but its not that bad.

My question is 1% ranged and tech crit worth giving up to increase the damage of orbital strike and explosive probe by 5% and is the 10% boost worth it instead of the 2% alacrity.

namesaretough's Avatar


namesaretough
05.01.2013 , 03:10 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
Theorycrafting fun!

5 ticks of Orbital instead of 3 (no pvp bonus) or 4 (1 2-pc pvp bonus).. in HM SnV

I can see the extra ticks as a good "safety net" to make sure your OS will hit as much adds as they can. Titan-6, Thrasher Snipers, pre-cast in Operations Chief to hit the probes, EXTRA TICKS on Olok the Shadow's puzzle phase on droids that are adjacent to each other, and the extra tick useful in Styrak's various "phases" as well (the phase where adds close in on you comes to mind).

In HM TFB, pre-casting earlier for the jealous male adds in Writhing horror, more ticks on DG Council if your raid decides to just screw mechanics and stack the bosses up for AoE, extra ticks in between Operator boss phases, extra tick on the final burn phase of Kephess and Terror From Beyond.

I can imagine the extra tick will be useful for burn phases or soft enrages. In those 1-3 minute burn phases, i'd imagine the extra tick will contribute more than the extra ~40 cunning. If that last tick of Orbital hits (and if you can use it twice in one burn phase (especially as MM who have their OS at 45 seconds), that is around 14,000 more damage in my gear.
If you want to get all 5 ticks to hit, you need adds to live/the boss to stand still for
a) 16-17 seconds, or
b) at LEAST 12 seconds, and you can pre-cast so your first tick hits as the adds spawn/get into position.

Observations from my experiences with these fights:
--Titan 6: The adds live for 10 seconds max. If they're up for 12 seconds it's because a healer forgot to run to the orbitals. It would be a nice benefit in case that does happen, but most times it will be wasted.
--Thrasher: The adds are all dead within 9 seconds of being vulnerable. Currently, my 3rd tick of OS will tend to hit when only 1-2 of the snipers are still alive, and 3s after that they're all dead.
--Operations Chief: The probes die within 9 seconds.
--Olok: Definitely a benefit. Even if the first target dies before the 5th tick, the second should still be alive.
--Styrek: I don't think that particular add lives 12 seconds for us. I could be wrong though, it would be a tremendous effort for me to look through and find out, given that everything in that fight is named the same thing and I'd have to guess from delays between ability activations.
--Horror: It would be nice to be able to precast soon after the male spawns and be sure you'll catch a tick or two on the adds. Obviously, they won't live to catch 4-5 ticks.
--Dread Guard: Seeing as they full heal when one dies, I don't consider splash damage on the other bosses worthwhile damage. It's only there to inflate parses.
--Kephess: You won't get 5 ticks to hit him while he's vulnerable in the first 2 phases, but it's a nice bit of extra damage you can preload for the final burn.

Basically, I don't see 2 2pc PVP bonuses as a benefit for bringing down adds, as adds don't live long enough to get hit by them all anyways. I DO think that, as long as you don't need the 2pc pve bonus for energy management, it will be worth it for single-target DPS, just don't expect to see huge damage increases from add phases

Of course, your raid may have less AoE than mine does. If you're doing most of the AoE damage for your raid with your orbital strike, you may see a bigger benefit than I would, particularly on things like writhing horror adds and titan probes.
Smugglin

paowee's Avatar


paowee
05.01.2013 , 03:24 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by namesaretough View Post
snip
Hello everydayimsmugglin http://www.torparse.com/a/198549/16

I was waiting to and expecting to see the counter arguments you mentioned lol I agree with you in that if the purpose of the extra tick is to make Orbital do more damage on adds, the double 2pc pvp in reality wouldn't really be accomplish this purpose because adds die too fast anyway in current content. For example:

- Dashroode = bleeeghhh
- Titan 6 In my raid, adds are usually at 5-10% by my 3rd tick. We mostly have 2 maras, 2 mercs and 2 snipers (me included) so AoE is kept at a minimum in between everyone's smash,sweeping slashes, nades, DFas and orbitals.
- Thrasher, Snipers are dead before my 4th tick drops
- Olok = 5 ticks definitely worth it
- Cartel = serves only to inflate DPS**
- Styrak = see Dashroode*

- Writhing Horror = adds die in 3 ticks
- Council = see Cartel**
- Operator IX = might be useful in 16-man at least. There are double the number of adds in between immunity phases.
- Kephess = that is why i mentioned "final" burn phase only. It could still be useful during the earlier phases for single target dps but that is why we need to test and parse it first on the dummy!***
- TFB = see Kephess***

For single target DPS are 5 ticks of OS (if you can get all of them to hit) better than minus 40 cunning? Will need math people and accurate parses for sure. I for one will parse this "5 ticks of Orbital PVE build" and will post my results here.

IF we find that 5 OS ticks is indeed > than 40 Cunning, there is a second argument. Not all bosses are stationary. If that's the case then it will all boil down to personal preference. Play it safe with 40 Cunning all the time? Or play riskier and try to use OS on CD and try to get all 5 ticks to hit?
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CoppertheBeagle's Avatar


CoppertheBeagle
05.01.2013 , 03:28 PM | #15
My idea for 5 ticks instead of 4 was for the bosses. The damage done by orbital is much more than the damage done by many other moves. The add phases i didn't think were particularly useful but i do agree that bosses that move a lot make this less worthwhile. i might run with 2 sets and have those bosses with 1 pvp set and 1 pve set or maybe even 2 and 4 pve set.

edit: What im getting at is if it is worth it for single target dps. I just recently switched to marksman as my raid team needed a higher burst for adds but i do not have the rotation nearly down yet. I was hoping someone could also help me parse to see the damage difference from a more experienced gunslinger. I hit a little more for hybrid but not enough to make it worthwhile as it coulda been the difference of a crit from a few parses.

paowee's Avatar


paowee
05.01.2013 , 03:37 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by CoppertheBeagle View Post
edit: What im getting at is if it is worth it for single target dps..
You can test it yourself if you can not wait for other people's results . We are all guessing right now until someone shows up with good math or a good parse that we can scrutinize and determine if it is accurate.
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paowee's Avatar


paowee
05.01.2013 , 03:40 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by namesaretough View Post
snip.
Also do you mind posting your stats? When you get the time. Thanks!
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CoppertheBeagle's Avatar


CoppertheBeagle
05.01.2013 , 03:59 PM | #18
My stats buffed and stimmed with a reusable nano-infused are

primary 1299-1650
sec 123-228
bonus 890.0
accuracy 97.48
crit 28.08%
crit multiplier 73.07%

I know my accuracy needs to be higher but i just grabbed all the new stuff i could. im working on it to get it to 100% or close to it. I just did 2 short parses, the second and the fourth, the first and the 3rd were just screwups but here are my results with. I am about to try without.
http://www.torparse.com/a/203853

namesaretough's Avatar


namesaretough
05.01.2013 , 05:03 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
Hello everydayimsmugglin http://www.torparse.com/a/198549/16
Looks like you found half a fight there... if you add in the second phase that number's a lot smaller

Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
IF we find that 5 OS ticks is indeed > than 40 Cunning, there is a second argument. Not all bosses are stationary. If that's the case then it will all boil down to personal preference. Play it safe with 40 Cunning all the time? Or play riskier and try to use OS on CD and try to get all 5 ticks to hit?
On the one hand, 12 seconds is a LONG time. On the other, I think you'll be fine for everyone but Kephess in TFB, and at least the first 4 and last boss in SV, if you're using OS on the bosses. I don't have the old pvp bonus, unfortunately, but I'm working on getting Conq pieces to use the new one.

Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
Also do you mind posting your stats? When you get the time. Thanks!
Sure thing. Buffed I'm at
3361 cunning
1486-1863 pri, 132-245 sec
1046 bonus damage (1500 bonus tech)
97.34% acc (230 rating)
23.2% crit (0 rating)
74.11% surge (525 rating)
Underworld BA and SA relics
Smugglin

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bbare
05.01.2013 , 05:32 PM | #20
As a hybrid sniper, there really is only 2 fights where I find it impossible to get 4 ticks of orbital on the boss every 70 seconds or so. Kephess, because he is practically moving the whole time and even his mini burn phases with the pillars don't last very long. Cartel Warlords, because Vilus and Sunder move constantly. The other fights I'm not having a problem getting down orbital strike when I want too.
The Vanity Legacy