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Developer Update: Sith Inquisitor and Jedi Consular Class Changes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Developer Update: Sith Inquisitor and Jedi Consular Class Changes
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CourtneyWoods's Avatar

04.19.2013 , 10:47 AM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Senior Designer, Austin Peckenpaugh, shares details about the class changes to the Sith Inquisitor and Jedi Consular now live in Game Update 2.0. Discuss them here!
Courtney Woods | Lead Community Coordinator
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Missandei's Avatar

04.19.2013 , 11:15 AM | #2
Shadow is here.
Balance is broken. Also DPS in PvE are weaker than any other dps class.Period.

The PhaseWalk is unnecessarily complicated to use.
Unlike any other class new abilities, Shadows must first place the mark and only then use the ability.
Every other class can use their new abilities on demand and instantly. Shadows have to prepare the ability before to able to use it.

And the actuall usefulness of the PhaseWalk is very limited.... Oh, yeah! Datacron hunts are much easier with it.. and thats all..
And even if there is a place in the Boss fight to use PhaseWalk, the boss's battle pattern usually lower than 45 sec to use PhaseWalk at each phase.

Missandei Shadow ...yet shadows can kill. And oft-times a very small man can cast a very large shadow.

ericthenut's Avatar

04.19.2013 , 11:30 AM | #3
The annoying thing to me is that not only do they buff the hell out of the sorc and make hybrid specs even more capable than before. They nerf the only good assassin dps tree in madness. By removing the increased damage to thrash and not allowing any kind of proc for our maul the spec is completely useless....

Bioware's class balancing team just needs to jump off a cliff.
This game is simply no longer any fun to pvp in.

warstory's Avatar

04.19.2013 , 11:42 AM | #4
90% of telekinetics offensive abilities are casts all these casts can be shut out easily, mental alacrity only resists interrupts. Add to that the pushback when u get attack while in the middle of a cast. Mind crush is a key skill with a 2 second cast yet it doesn't have anyway for a tk sage to get some pushback on this skill, oversight. It basically makes the skill unusable.

Force quake does very weak dmg the skill is basicly useless as a attack option. Maybe force potency should effect the entire duration of the cast like it does for tk throw (can we get a better animation on this?)

Turbalance can hit twice if proc but the proc chance is way too low. There also needs to be some type of under 30% health proc 90% of close fights lost is because of no execution ability

Ps. I have been playing tk for more than a year now and I love the spec the changes u have made make the spec playable now it needs to be viable. There are a lot if penalties for playing a casted spec in this game which I have listed above.
"Surely you know I could kill you just as easily with my lightsaber as I could with the force "

sainik's Avatar

04.19.2013 , 11:55 AM | #5
In this specific case, adding Infiltration Tactics on top of a full Balance spec felt clunky. Worse, it wasnít necessary. Weíre fully capable of providing the same damage boost to players without requiring them to master additional gameplay.
For me, the issue isn't much about having the same damage boost, as much as being able to use our core AC ability. I have always felt that balance shadow was named so because if its synergy between melee and force abilities. Without having a variety in the available melee skills, that is no longer the case, and that destroys the feel of the class.

I consider Shadow strike, stealth, resilience and project to be the abilities that define a shadow (and indeed both infiltration and kinetic combat get their own ways to use shadow strike and project ), but none of these core abilities synergize with the balance tree. Worse, balance shadows cannot even use one of these ablities. Earlier balance shadows had access to infiltration tactics and twin disciplines, this was not the case. Now, the balance tree somehow feels alien to the shadow class, and "feels" similar to a balance sage.

Most players have a choice between shadow and sage when they hit lvl 10, and they pick a shadow because they want stealth and/or they want to be melee. Hence i do not understand why balance spec will be more attractive to shadows, when it synergises with neither stealth nor melee abilities. I really liked what you guys did with lethality, for eg, with buffs to stealth and the ability to use KI, it feels even more like an operative. I was expecting something similar for balance.

Jayshames's Avatar

04.19.2013 , 12:00 PM | #6
The Telekinetics and Lightning tree has seen a major improvement in my opinion. I'm often scoring highest damage in PnP on my 37 Sage. That being said however, I do miss using Madness on my Assassin. I've never been a big fan of Deception and although there's no denying it's burst is incredible at the moment, I just find it a very clunky spec. I enjoy(ed) the Madness spec the most but it's not the same any more. It's basically just a spec for spreading some mediocre DoTs.. at melee range. Comparing it to the DoT spec (Lethality) of a Sniper the gap is huge. Snipers not only get 35m range, they get one of the best (if not best) DPS in-game alongside burst aswell.

Now I have every class at/near level 50 but Mercenary/Commando so I don't want to see nerfs come to any classes, but I do really miss playing my Assassin as Madness.

kwestone's Avatar

04.19.2013 , 12:08 PM | #7
Yeah me too. Especially after so many people saw it coming after testing it on the the PTS, and made many documented attempts to plea to BW to make a change.

Here is yet ANOTHER plea to you Bioware:
  • Please let give us the same thing you gave tank in the Conspirators Cloak, only for madness. This alone would pop DPS up another 150+ right away.
  • The other change is Creeping Terror should not be an 18 second DOT, instead should do the same damage over half of that time.

I have the worst time trying to burn ads now, even with Death field hitting like a truck. We need at least SOME burst in this spec that is NOT aoe. Shock is not hitting for more than 3k even with a crit.
Also force management is still next to impossible. I find myself using saber strike all the time now. <--- So Austin said we would do greater DPS at the end of fights and it would balance our dps out.... LOL is anyone finding that to be true? Anyone?
Please fix this Austin.

Eillack's Avatar

04.19.2013 , 12:08 PM | #8
Just kick whoever made the new armors please and all the imbalance will be semi forgiven.

Ten_Ton_Hammer's Avatar

04.19.2013 , 12:08 PM | #9
I'm thankful Lightning Sorc didn't get changed too radically. Still love everything about it, enjoy playing it immensely.

Sylvan's Avatar

04.19.2013 , 12:39 PM | #10
I have to take issue with quite a few of the "improvements" to Sorc. Gonna list em point by point. Before I do, I want to say well done on the healing side of things. You took nothing away from healers and added in some very nice boosts. What a pity you couldn't do the same for the other two trees!

Better Static Barrier: Weíve removed the cooldown from Static Barrier so that itís easier to protect your allies even when not specíd in the Corruption skill tree. It still has its Deionized debuff lockout of course.
True, but you also nerfed how powerful the barrier is. Given this is our only mobile defensive cooldown, nerfing its strength is a big loss to a squishy light armour class. No need for this to happen, though I think the bubble stun nerf was totally acceptable. Taking away the cooldown is a minor boost to every Sorc who isn't fully spec'd into healing (healers already have no cooldown on static barrier). If I'm dps I'm not going to be blowing my force reserves bubbling up a whole team!

Force Barrier (New ability): This ability grants total immunity to all hostile effects and damage while channeled. Force Barrier can be channeled up to 10 seconds, but like any other channeled ability, you can cancel it or move out of it at any time. While channeled, incoming damage and debuffs will fail to apply.
This ability is sooo NOT what we needed as Sorcs/Sages. We already suffer from being so easily rooted, slowed and held in place by Melee. We needed a defensive cooldown that we could use on the move, ideally one that meant we couldn't be stunned or slowed and still gave us a boost to defence. As is, this is basically a delayed suicide button. Decent for PvE, terrible for PvP.

Haunted Dreams: The activation time reduction on Whirlwind has been reduced in effectiveness. Previously, this skill gave Madness a lot of extra lockdown that we werenít too pleased with, and after the introduction of Force Barrier, Madnessís ability to flee and avoid conflict exceeded acceptable levels. Now this skill reduces the activation time of Whirlwind to 1.5 seconds. The stun effect when Whirlwind ends prematurely due to damage has not been altered.
You are all so wrong on this I'm pondering whether or not you actually ever play Madness Sorc in PvP against good players. Our whirlwind stun didn't kill people, or do massive damage whilst stunning them (hello smashers). It gave us a few seconds to heal up and get a bit of distance from the very OP melee classes who had been handing us our little force wielding backsides for months. You need to put this back in as an instant. For a DOT tree that needs time to build up damage to not have an instant long range stun is very bad. We aren't OP in PvP by any stretch of the imagination. Please fix this.

Shapeless Spirit: This new utility skill reduces all damage taken by 30% while stunned. Madness has a good deal of self healing through effects like Parasitism and Death Field, but this healing isnít on-demand and canít counter burst at key moments. As a result, Madness is especially vulnerable to being bursted down while controlled, so we added Shapeless Spirit to help Madnessís survivability in that department.
This is a welcome addition, but you must be joking about the "good dealing of healing" from parisitism and Death field. The kind of healing you get back from this might keep you healthy against 1-3 normal npc mobs if you dot them all up, but against a pure dps player or a Champion level boss the healing we get back from DOTs is all but worthless. If you really wanted to make stunning a Madness Sorc a bad idea, to counter how slowly our damamge builds up you'd raise this to 50% (in PvP only) so melee players would think twice about smashing into us.

All in all, we're in the same boat we were before. Everyone has had their damage boosted, so the improvements we've seen to our dps trees don't exactly address the problems we had before. The OP classes are still OP, especially the melee ones and speaking as a Madness Sorc, I now have one of the best defences against them taken away and reduced to a charged ability I just know they are going to interupt easily.

Please return whirlwind to an instant cast for a 2 point investment. It wasn't OP. You don't see threads in the Sentinel/maruader forums whining about how OP Madness Sorcs are. Come on.

Ps, we need an execute ability for targets under 30%. Everyone is asking for this for a very good reason and I don't see any other dps prof saying we'd be OP if we had it.
Jen'doon............Harkal Moravian