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Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.14.2013 , 05:33 PM | #481
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
*rubs temples*

According to wookie, that quote is from TSL cut content, not SWTOR, so any abilities they had in TSL are what they have, not what HK-51s have in SWTOR.

2) Follow me here: it took 4 PCs from SWTOR to take on HK-47. Companions suck compared even to PCs, maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of their strength. 4x3=12, 4x2=8, so it could take anywhere between 8-12 51s to beat someone not even of Kreia's power but a comparable example. But we're not talking 51s, we're talking 50s, meaning it would take quite a few more for Kreia to even break a sweat.
Note Blaze, I wouldn't use game mechanics and saying 4 guys are needed to take on one droid. That just seems sort of ridiculous, there is no doubt that in the lore 4 guys confronted HK-47 but...4 of em are just overkill especially when 2 are powerful sith lords.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
03.14.2013 , 05:34 PM | #482
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
What?

If G0-T0 says "Hey look everybody! You know that one series of assassin droid, you know, the most dangerous in our galaxy? Yeah, I've actually been mass producing those for years! Anyone want out?" I think that's gonna make people think twice about betraying G0-T0.

They have no idea what Traya's assassins are, and frankly they seem more like a myth than anything. The threat of HKs is all too real and something underworld figures know to fear.
While G0-T0 can make his own people fear him, he can't do the same to Traya's forces. Traya on the other hand can make the Exchange fear her (or at least her assassins).

The threat you can't see is greater than the threat you can, in this battle at least. The 'anonymity' of the Assassins is a boon to the fear factor in my opinion. You don't know where they are, you don't know what they are, and they could kill you at anytime. That would certainly freak me out.

In addition to this, the fact that G0-T0 could use the HKs as a tool for intimidation makes betraying him sound like a more beneficial prospect. Not many people like to be ruled by an Iron Fist, especially criminals. If G0-T0 starts going around saying "Work for me or die!" people won't respond well. Like you and Garfield have noted in the past, criminals and underworld types want to be free. If G0-T0 starts putting pressure on them, guys like Visquis will be easier to recruit for Traya. All she has to do is say that the Sith will leave the Exchange be if Visquis/other Exchange cohort helps her take down G0-T0. And Traya is quite the manipulative witch, convincing a few criminals shouldn't be too difficult for someone like her.
Added Chapter 40 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
03.14.2013 , 05:35 PM | #483
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Note Blaze, I wouldn't use game mechanics and saying 4 guys are needed to take on one droid. That just seems sort of ridiculous.
no, it's a valid and comparative way to scale their power. None of the main PCs' companions are as strong or are ever depicted to be as strong as the PCs themselves.

And it's not just any droid but the infamous jedi-killing assassin droid of Revan's design, who accompanied Kreia and the Exile and definitely was no pushover.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.14.2013 , 05:36 PM | #484
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
hold on, Warren, let's pretend for a moment that your HK quote is canon. That's the assessment of HK-51s when the HK factory is found, not when they're developed and produced (and eventually lost) alot of things can change in 200-300 years with a droid model.
Do you have an alternative source? If not, we can assume this is cannon, because, despite it being cut content, it is still cannon.

The whole point is that the HK-51s were lost for like hundreds of years and then found on Ilum....

You asked for my unbiased evaluation of the HK's battle effectiveness. I gave one. What's yours?
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.14.2013 , 05:38 PM | #485
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
no, it's a valid and comparative way to scale their power. None of the main PCs' companions are as strong or are ever depicted to be as strong as the PCs themselves.
And NPC mobs, including Sith lords and the like, are not as powerful as companions. So by your logic, HK-50s can defeat pretty much every foot soldier. War droid. And Sith. Huh.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.14.2013 , 05:40 PM | #486
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
And it's not just any droid but the infamous jedi-killing assassin droid of Revan's design, who accompanied Kreia and the Exile and definitely was no pushover.
That's the same droid that was remade out of HK-50 parts....
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
03.14.2013 , 05:44 PM | #487
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
In addition to this, the fact that G0-T0 could use the HKs as a tool for intimidation makes betraying him sound like a more beneficial prospect. Not many people like to be ruled by an Iron Fist, especially criminals. If G0-T0 starts going around saying "Work for me or die!" people won't respond well. Like you and Garfield have noted in the past, criminals and underworld types want to be free. If G0-T0 starts putting pressure on them, guys like Visquis will be easier to recruit for Traya. All she has to do is say that the Sith will leave the Exchange be if Visquis/other Exchange cohort helps her take down G0-T0. And Traya is quite the manipulative witch, convincing a few criminals shouldn't be too difficult for someone like her.
But unless someone has an example of when these Sith Assassins have actually done anything, they'll remain just a myth. G0-T0 can easily claim that any death caused by the Sith Assassins was actually just him eliminating someone who joined Traya's side. Traya isn't exactly a propanganda machine. G0-T0 knows how to rule a crime syndicate.

And G0-T0 doesn't have to say "Work for me or die." He can stage a betrayal, have his HKs kill the traitor, and plaster it all over Nar Shaddaa. In other words, don't betray the Exchange. And these people in power are unlikely to give up their positions in the first place. They have power and want to keep it.

And I don't think Traya meeting with anyone in person is such a great idea.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
03.14.2013 , 05:51 PM | #488
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
That's the same droid that was remade out of HK-50 parts....
yes because the HK vocabulator is really what did those protocol droids on the Harbinger over

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.14.2013 , 05:57 PM | #489
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
no, it's a valid and comparative way to scale their power. None of the main PCs' companions are as strong or are ever depicted to be as strong as the PCs themselves.

And it's not just any droid but the infamous jedi-killing assassin droid of Revan's design, who accompanied Kreia and the Exile and definitely was no pushover.
I never said anything about companions, the 4 PC's confronted HK-47 yes...but to say all 4 of them were needed to kill him? No. It doesn't matter that HK-47 is a jedi killing assassin droid, he is still a droid and besides his track record hasn't been steller thus far. Infact, what Jedi has he killed anyway that is proof, hard proof names and all? He has knowledge of hunting them yes, but any droid can be downloaded with information and spew it out like a computer.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
03.14.2013 , 05:59 PM | #490
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Do you have an alternative source? If not, we can assume this is cannon, because, despite it being cut content, it is still cannon.

The whole point is that the HK-51s were lost for like hundreds of years and then found on Ilum....

You asked for my unbiased evaluation of the HK's battle effectiveness. I gave one. What's yours?
what are you talking about? HK-51s under the Empire's control were lost for a decade and then turned up on Belsavis. How were these 51s constructed? how much tweaking would have been possible within those 300 years? do you really, honestly believe that if someone found the HK-51 schematics they wouldn't try to make some improvements before producing a shipment of them -for the Sith Empire-?

kotor 2 is my unbiased evaluation of the HK's battle effectiveness. They got roflstomped at every turn.

You say what Sith Assassins do is a myth, yet what have HK50s done besides pose as a protocol droid to stalk 1 jedi? nothing, lol. They're not nearly as powerful as you think, especially if the HK-51s are anything to go off of.

You say HK-47 was reconstructed from HK-50 parts. That's true, HK-50 parts were compatible and in some cases the same as HK-47. Were they as strong as HK-47? Undoubtedly no.

And yeah, an HK-50 could probably take a couple of goons. that's about it.