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Group finder? Psht.


Radzkie's Avatar


Radzkie
03.07.2013 , 03:55 AM | #41
Just run FPs with your guildmates or friends. I do that 99% of the time now.

Whenever I stupidly decide to que solo, I always end up getting grouped with poorly geared players, which makes the run take so much longer than it needs too.

My main is a healer, by the way.

steave's Avatar


steave
03.07.2013 , 10:49 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by slafko View Post
Since when is the tank a support role?
Since always...The goal is to kill the boss/trash group, and that requires DPS - but in order for the DPS to survive they need support from tanks and healers that can keep the group alive while the DPS takes care of the killing.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
03.07.2013 , 05:59 PM | #43
I've got 2 tanks, 1 healer and 1 DPS that I play regularly as well as 1 more of each that I don't play regularly.

When it comes to queuing I tend to only really queue with guildies and I usually queue on my tanks since that's what's usually needed. The upside of that is when I do feel like running on my DPS guildies tend to swap to a tank alt for me. Main reason I don't outright PUG is that PUG tanks are notoriously bad, and I say that as someone that knows how to tank. Most tanks I run with (TBH that includes guildies) can't hold threat over my VG DPS even when I give them a good lead.

Its to the point that most of the time I just end up tanking on my DPS (and letting the healer know that) unless its a fight were that would cause issues. I know as a tank it's not *HARD* to hold over a DPS that's hitting 2500 DPS, its not easy, but its not hard. I know as a tank that you can mitigate more through interrupts than gear in most encounters and yet I see tanks ignoring that all the time. I know as a healer that most FP boss damage is pitifully low and I can spend most of my time DPSing. I know as a DPS that I can kill most FP bosses before my Power relic runs out, or I can hold back and take twice as long so the tank keeps aggro. I also know (and here's the real kicker) that the only reason you need a full group is to make group finder pop.

With all that said, I can 2 man most FPs with any combination of roles. 3 man makes it easier. 4 DPS is actually the hardest combo but still entirely possible and often the fastest and most entertaining runs. With the current state of gear tanks and healers are necessary for HM FPs. All the healer does is turn a DPS race into a battle of attrition and largely the tank keeps everyone else safe but slows down the group. Given that stock DTPS is easily healed through with current gear, if I can play a DPS like a tank, keep aggro through high DPS and control damage through stuns and interrupts, why shouldn't I queue as a tank?

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that everyone should queue as a tank. I *KNOW* what I'm doing and largely, FP and trash tanking mitigation is more about stuns and interrupts than gear. I'm saying don't immediately discard a tank in DPS stance, talk to them first and give it a couple of pulls. If they suck, kick them and pull out a comp.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

steave's Avatar


steave
03.07.2013 , 10:16 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
Given that stock DTPS is easily healed through with current gear, if I can play a DPS like a tank, keep aggro through high DPS and control damage through stuns and interrupts, why shouldn't I queue as a tank?
...because you have no idea what kind of healer and DPS you'll end up with? A geared healer will be just fine keeping you up anyway, but if you get a fresh 50 in tionese+recruit he won't, and even if he does it's because he's working his *** off.
I do sometimes do that myself, but while having a full tanking gear and field respec and start out by asking the healer if he's fine with it or if he'd rather have me respec.

grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
03.07.2013 , 10:54 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
...because you have no idea what kind of healer and DPS you'll end up with? A geared healer will be just fine keeping you up anyway, but if you get a fresh 50 in tionese+recruit he won't, and even if he does it's because he's working his *** off.
I do sometimes do that myself, but while having a full tanking gear and field respec and start out by asking the healer if he's fine with it or if he'd rather have me respec.
As I said, I rarely PUG but when I do if I've got a newbie healer I just hold back and let the tank do his job. Its a lot less entertaining but it works. That said, there are no (compulsory) fights in the FPs aside from LI that require much healing on the tank. Most of the worrying stuff is interruptable (Ironfist), randomly targeted (Darth Severin) or someone standing in stupid (Vokk). Frenzied Behemoth in Kaon is the only one I can think of but that's a taunt fest anyway due to the semi-constant threat drops.

When 2.0 hits and we have the gear reset tanks and healers will become more important and with the changes to Shielding I suspect tanks won't devalue as quickly post 2.0.

Anyway this discussion has inspired me to grab my normal healer, both spec DPS but queue our normal roles and see how we go with unsuspecting DPS. I'm pretty confident we'll be fine and most DPS won't even notice unless they check my Cell or have enough situational awareness to notice us doing things we shouldn't be able to in our proper spec like IA procs and FiB.
The Kae-Sare Legacy - The Harbinger
<Vindication> <Retribution>

Gralleh Grall'eh Khyar
Gralleh's Guide to Guardian Tanking [UPDATED for 2.0]

slafko's Avatar


slafko
03.08.2013 , 01:14 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
Since always...The goal is to kill the boss/trash group, and that requires DPS - but in order for the DPS to survive they need support from tanks and healers that can keep the group alive while the DPS takes care of the killing.
By that same logic, the dps is a support role because the tanks and healers need their support in killing the mobs.


P.S.
No, tank is not a support role.

Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
03.08.2013 , 08:44 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by slafko View Post
By that same logic, the dps is a support role because the tanks and healers need their support in killing the mobs.


P.S.
No, tank is not a support role.
IMO the tank is definitively a support role, in pve (and even more in pvp, but that's not part of this thread)
T3-M4 - Lvl 55 Chars:
T'hana Jugg, Saleona Sniper, S'inthoras Mara,Hannahla Merc, Eleondra&Eleondraa Ops,
Leeonira Sorc, CaphalÝr Sorc, Kindarya Assa, LeoniŽ PT,
Revuna Mando, Leojuna Scoundrel, Simon'e Shadow, Sileona Guardian

DrewFromPhilly's Avatar


DrewFromPhilly
03.08.2013 , 12:17 PM | #48
GUYS

There's no I in team and everyone plays a role...healer being the most important...

VigDiath's Avatar


VigDiath
03.08.2013 , 12:59 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
Because I don't feel like it? I have BiS gear both for tanking and DPS on my powertech, but I find tanking with her to be boring since the tanking style is too passive so I only use the tank stuff for guild raids/runs. I've tanked everything in the game with her, so skill isn't the problem, but I just don't like it.
And yet you ignored my next line lol. I know DPS on a PT is awesome! DPS on my Guardian makes me never want to tank on any FPs or HMs. But its a necessary evil when it takes me 20 minutes to queue for a FP and longer for Ops.
Jedi Covenant (The Baltimore Legacy)
Laaron - 55 (Shadow Tank) Eulora - 55 (Sage Healer)
Madmartygan - 55 (Guardian DPS) Skylaadawn - 55 (Sab Smug)
Akon - 55 (Carnage Marauder) L'aron - 53 (Sorc Healer)

steave's Avatar


steave
03.08.2013 , 04:25 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by grallmate View Post
As I said, I rarely PUG but when I do if I've got a newbie healer I just hold back and let the tank do his job. Its a lot less entertaining but it works.
You asked why you shouldn't queue as a tank. Holding back and letting the tank do his job isn't an option if there isn't a tank.

Quote: Originally Posted by VigDiath View Post
And yet you ignored my next line lol. I know DPS on a PT is awesome! DPS on my Guardian makes me never want to tank on any FPs or HMs. But its a necessary evil when it takes me 20 minutes to queue for a FP and longer for Ops.
The point wasn't that it's a PT, it was that if you don't like tanking with a class you have no obligation to do so, including sins and juggs.
It simply comes down to what you dislike more, waiting a bit or tanking with the char. For me the answer is tanking, so I just do some other stuff while waiting.