Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Group finder? Psht.


Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.06.2013 , 01:31 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Heezdedjim View Post
You don't have to spec tank or heal to queue as one. Just sayin.
That's a rude and selfish approach to this problem. Why should I suffer from your ghetto heals/tanks? I'd kick you and pull out a companion to do the same job.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
03.06.2013 , 01:44 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by SturmUndSterne View Post
Do the job you signed up for with the spec it requires.
And i would add with the skill to pull it off.

While I agree, most HM FP don't need a real tank or a real healer, I have done many on my shadow dps and have even done a few of those with a commando dps healing, but those were strictly guild/friend runs where I knew everyone's gear and skill. I would never run a random gueued as a tank.

Not one to instigate a vote kick, but if someone does for someone queuing out of spec, then I would go along with it.

Oh I still run a dps shadow, not switching to tank. Sorry, I have a healer as my main, I don't feel the need to play two support toons. I just don't have problems getting my daily/weekly done on her or the rest of my toons without resorting to making her a tank. I think because I can help others get the missions done on their other toons with my sawbones or operative. We just return the favor to each other.

acecow's Avatar


acecow
03.06.2013 , 02:09 PM | #33
Coming off of 5 years experience playing a Priest in WoW and now the 2 months I've had on this commando (about 1 month at 50 now)...you get tired of healing. Especially with ToR's archaic, option-less, ****astic UI for healing. Holy hell...

When asking why healing/tank classes queue as DPS instead, it mostly comes down to the fact that they're tired of it. Do you know how much easier playing an MMO as a DPS class is for PvE content? You know how awesome it is when mobs die in 3-5 skill casts as opposed to 5-10 as a healer/tank? Especially with the companion system, you know how nice it is to not have all the mobs on you while you're trying to both heal you and your companion AND defeat the enemy mobs?

But moving on from solo content, you know how awesome it is to not have to care if everyone in the group is dying and instead just worry about your own positioning/rotation/interrupts? As a tank and healer, if anyone messes up, you have to cover for them, whether it be taunting that extra pack that got pulled or healing dps who always seem to be slow to move out of fire. Resource management as a healer is always more of a pain than dps. If a dps runs out of ammo, it's bad...but they can still hammer shot while waiting for CDs or whatnot, but if I run out of ammo while healing what happens? The tank dies. We wipe. People complain. But do you want to know why I ran out of ammo? Because I was trying to heal your undergeared/slow/ignorant self. Call me elitist, call me a hater, call me poisonous to the game, but it gets to the point where you just get tired and frustrated and fed up with everyone trying to blame someone besides themselves. Yes, there have been times where group wipes have been my fault since my CDs weren't up and I didn't say anything, or I was too busy scavenging and fell too far behind. But more often than not it ends up being some DPS who thinks they've got god-mode on and charges in balls to the wall and then complains when they get 2-shot.

Do I think that WoW's system of giving extra rewards to what was most needed in queue was a perfect system? By all means, no. But it may have been a step in the right direction. Inherently, we will always have this problem simply because of how Ops and WZs work. You always need more dps than tanks/heals and as you level, dps generally is the fastest. Thus, this leads to a surplus. Also, people who main a healer/tank generally have dps alts that they want to play on too, but I find that a fair amount of people who main dps just level more dps alts, thus creating an even bigger surplus.

So there is no easy fix to this. There never will be unless people start magically becoming unselfish, but we're human and I doubt that'll be happening anywhere in the near future. To those of you that say "find a guild," I have, unfortunately it's a kind of small-ish and many of these people have been playing for at least a year and just don't want to run these damned FPs anymore. Even if they do, normally it's just one person and they end up being a dps, so we queue as a healer and dps...doesn't really alleviate the problem, yeah? I haven't really tanked much, so I can't say if it's fun or not, but hearing from what some guildies/friends have said, perhaps that may be one of the underlying reasons that there always seems to be a shortage of tanks.

That ended up being a lot longer than expected. I think I stayed on topic there and I think I said most of what I wanted to say.

EDIT: On the topic of tanks/heals offering their services for a charge. Nothing wrong about it. If they want to charge people for their time they have the freedom to do so. If you don't like that idea, wait for a different tank to either enter LFG or reply to your post in General chat. No one's forcing you to pay them.

Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
03.06.2013 , 02:37 PM | #34
I've soloed queued as all three roles before. While the wait times for DPS are longer, it does not take "all afternoon." Remember, if someone has you on ignore, the system won't group them with you. If DPS are finding queue times are really long, it might be because you irritated too many tanks / healers.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.06.2013 , 03:00 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by acecow View Post
Coming off of 5 years experience playing a Priest in WoW and now the 2 months I've had on this commando (about 1 month at 50 now)...you get tired of healing. Especially with ToR's archaic, option-less, ****astic UI for healing. Holy hell...

When asking why healing/tank classes queue as DPS instead, it mostly comes down to the fact that they're tired of it. Do you know how much easier playing an MMO as a DPS class is for PvE content? You know how awesome it is when mobs die in 3-5 skill casts as opposed to 5-10 as a healer/tank? Especially with the companion system, you know how nice it is to not have all the mobs on you while you're trying to both heal you and your companion AND defeat the enemy mobs?

...
This is interesting to me, as TOR is my first MMO, so I don't really have anything to compare it to. I do have a number of level 50s and have at least 1 dps, 1 healer and 1 tank toon for both Republic and Imperial. So I've at least experienced most of the different playstyles in this particular game.

You mention that the UI for healers in TOR is terrible in comparison to the one for WOW. Out of curiosity, what is different about it? Does it make healing in TOR harder than you would expect? I guess my basic question is:

"Do you not like healing in TOR because it is too easy, or too difficult?"

I do understand what you are saying about how long it takes to kill things while leveling, and that as a dps it goes faster. On most of my toons, I tend to level as a dps for just that reason. On my healers I would respec to heals when I hit Voss so I would have a good handle on it by the time I made it to level 50.

The exception to this was my first tank (Shadow). Being that I wanted to really understand how to play the class, I exclusively leveled in the tank tree, wearing tank gear if possible, with only dps companions out. As tank+dps I felt it forced me to be a little more careful when attacking elite mobs. By the time I hit 50 I really felt confident of what I was doing, and was able to bring my tank into HM operations quickly.

Speaking just for me personally, I actually like all three roles. I like the pew pew pew, but I also really like being a healer. I got good enough as a healer (as well as good gear) that I didn't mind a derp HM FP pug as it was challenging to keep everyone alive, which was fun. I also really like the tanking experience, as it is a different mentality. Playing as a tank my primary concern was keeping the bad guys from hitting my team-mate, followed by dealing with any instance-specific mechanics.

I'm sure that there are a million things that could be done to make TOR better. And perhaps my limited experience with other MMOs makes me look at this one with rose-coloured classes. But I think it's incorrect to say:
Quote: Originally Posted by acecow View Post
When asking why healing/tank classes queue as DPS instead, it mostly comes down to the fact that they're tired of it.
As a matter of fact, my guild had a number of dps-only players who dipped their foot in the healing/tanking experience and every single one of them enjoyed it. A couple of them even stopped playing their dps toons at all, as they found it boring by comparison to playing a healer or tank.

acecow's Avatar


acecow
03.06.2013 , 03:43 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
You mention that the UI for healers in TOR is terrible in comparison to the one for WOW. Out of curiosity, what is different about it? Does it make healing in TOR harder than you would expect? I guess my basic question is:

"Do you not like healing in TOR because it is too easy, or too difficult?"
I think the biggest difference is the lack of modability. While I realize that it can be difficult to write your game with customization in mind, I feel that given the history/success of WoW and other MMOs that came before ToR, they would have had this in mind. Granted, I didn't play when ToR released and I know that there was a UI update back in 1.2 so perhaps they did take that into account back then.

So, current gripes right now
  1. No option to remove buffs. I don't need to know that people have their class buffs on, I don't care if they've got stims/adrenals/procs. All I want to know is if they have a debuff and since buffs/debuffs are the same size, it becomes very difficult to tell in the myriad of icons that litter their box even with how large I have set my ops frames.
  2. I cannot remove portraits from self, target or group frames. I really don't need to see a 2d portrait when I can just look at the 3d model. It's taking up room that I'd rather be using to watch for ground effects.
  3. Quickslots. I can't completely hide a bar and still have it enabled. Yes, I have tried turning down the alpha to 0 and making it tiny and sticking it in a corner somewhere, but I still end up seeing it and have once or twice clicked on something from it on accident. This is more of a personal thing.
  4. Click casting/macros. Nothing. No support here. Hell, even some chat commands like /target aren't even available. I realize that you could say this is a luxury thing but simple macros like a /target=focus /cast CC are a beautiful thing. Also for various spells. Could help with action bar clutter too.

Okay, so mainly 1 and 4 are the biggest issues that "hinder" my play. I guess another thing could just be moving from a priest in WoW (think sage in ToR) to a paladin pre-AoE buffs(commando). Trying to relearn how to keep a group alive when I'm very much a single-target healer using some bass ackwards resource system is tough, I'll say. Resources is another thing that makes it difficult. Since all healers in WoW used mana (essentially Force, but much larger pools and slower regen) moving to this 12 Ammo pool is just...strange. I cope with it and have been getting better, but sometimes it's just frustrating. I'm glad to hear that they're at least normalizing troopers and moving them to a base-100 ammo system similar to BHs.

So, in my limited FP/Ops experience (EV/KP HMs and all FP HMs) I'd say that content-wise, healing's roughly same, just slightly more difficult mainly due to the debuff thing in the ops frames. (I actually did just realize that I can turn on health text in the ops frames, herpderp)

As to your second point, let me rephrase that and say that "I get tired of it" and I'm sure others do too. Now, you could say "just roll dps or tank," truth be told I would have rolled tank but I leveled with a friend (who isn't playing anymore) and he wanted to tank but then we hit 50 and he hated tanking so there's that. And while I love DPSing on my commando, I have that personality where'd I'd rather just suck it up and heal so I can actually see content and then complain about healing occasionally later. I also take pride in the fact that I'm a good healer. Yes, tooting my own horn, but, after healing top-end progression content for years in WoW, you learn to pick up a few things that other, newer healers haven't learned yet.

I also believe that some of my more recent frustration is trying to heal undergeared groups through Lost Island GFQ. I realize that the Xpac is right around the corner...but that doesn't mean that you should be waltzing in to LI with some greens/blues still, having only 500-1k more hp than your healer as a tank (or less as a dps). It says on the GFQ that LI should be attempted in mostly Columi-level gear for a reason =/ I guess, partially due to F2P and partially due to it being Star Wars, there are also a lot more new people to MMOs then I though. Perhaps could also be the fact that I'm getting older and more young people are starting to join them too.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.06.2013 , 04:22 PM | #37
@acecow, Cool, thanks for the clarification. I do get the points your saying.

Have you tried healing on the PTS yet?

As regards HM LI, I totally understand. In addition to the silly undergearing (did the player not notice the quest, tutorial and in-game mail that ALL offered free Tionese?), and lack of experience (so you want to try a Tier 2 HM FP before getting ANY Columi drops from a T1 HP?), lack of an understanding of their class (derp what's an interrupt?), I find it sad that some players just can't get the handle on the mechanics of that fight.

acecow's Avatar


acecow
03.06.2013 , 04:44 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
@acecow, Cool, thanks for the clarification. I do get the points your saying.

Have you tried healing on the PTS yet?
Afraid I can't say I have. Been kind of following up on class changes via forums but still not sure if I want to purchase the Xpac/spend more time with this. From what I've been able to tell in regards to Commandos, I'm liking what I've been reading.

steave's Avatar


steave
03.06.2013 , 10:19 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by SturmUndSterne View Post
And if you're not specced tank or heals and you're in my group as a tank or healer, I'll votekick you immediately. Do the job you signed up for with the spec it requires.
And add you on ignore as well.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
03.07.2013 , 03:22 AM | #40
Since when is the tank a support role?