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Bioware, when can we get a word on player housing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Bioware, when can we get a word on player housing?
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LadyDrusilla's Avatar


LadyDrusilla
03.05.2013 , 11:38 PM | #231
Pointing out that an argument isn't logical is not the same as attacking someones opinion based on logic. Look at the full quote:
Quote:
Again, who are you to say what is unnecessary? Why is content that appeals to many people unnecessary just because some people have no interest in it? The logic is lacking.
I am quite clearly referring to the argument, not you. If you think that what amounts to 'I don't like or see the need for something, therefore no one should have access to it' is a logical then I am not sure what else to say.

I am not being passive aggressive, I am being calm and rational. I have no issue with your opinion, just your declarations of what is or is not necessary for the game. I am not even arguing that player housing is necessary, it is not. It is however something for which there is demand and opportunities for Bioware to make money and expand/placate the playerbase. I argue that more and varied content for an MMO is an important thing regardless of how one may feel towards the specifics.
This blonde loves her Hutts, the bigger, the better.

Darth_Halford's Avatar


Darth_Halford
03.05.2013 , 11:41 PM | #232
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyDrusilla View Post
That is so illogical I don't know where to begin. For a start a war themed narratively based themepark MMO is not antithetical to player housing, that is a laughable proposition. Unless you are arguing that people don't need houses during a war or that stories can't involve houses. It's ridiculous. The length and breadth of SWTOR is far beyond that of a battlefield, much of it takes place during a cold war and none of the characters we play are dedicated front line troops that can never leave the battlefield without permission. They are free-agents accepting missions as they see fit, there is no reason why they wouldn't take a break between missions to visit home.
I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be depicted because it isn't at all relevant to the narrative.
While "never leave the battlefield without permission" is true, in that as a player you have final say of what your character does, Every Character is guided along by someone of note in the Republic/Empire or the Jedi/Sith, and every region you visit is a warzone.

Quote:
As to your first point, that is simply a case of 'I don't want it so BW shouldn't waste time on something I don't want'. If there is demand for player housing (which evidently there is) those people have as much right to developers time as you do. More and varied content is only a good thing for an MMO and while, of course, BW should prioritise things that will benefit the most people there is absolutely no reason why people who want player housing can't continue to campaign for it.
Demand alone isn't enough to justify something being included in a game, regardless of the genre. In fact I would suggest more often than not the way most games get ruined (especially for MMO's) is by attempting to do all things for all people.
I'm not saying that people who want it shouldn't camp for it. I simply don't think it fits in with everything else the game is trying to do.
Quote: Originally Posted by wjramussen
IF I want my own story, I break out a word processor.

Neverfar's Avatar


Neverfar
03.05.2013 , 11:46 PM | #233
Saying something is so does not make it so, even on the internet. Saying oneself is "rational" or even "calm" is more self-gratifying than self-evident. The more you throw the word "logic" around to promote yourself or to belittle those you argue with, the less meaning or believability the word has. It's like those people who say everyone to the left of "screw the poor" are "socialists". The word starts to lose both teeth and meaning.

It's an attempt, and a weak one, to belittle those who disagree.

Back to the point: unless it's ship customization you are after (which seems to be well in line with developer intentions for the game, an extension of what they've already offered with integrated GTN terminals, repair droids, and even training dummies), it's likely to happen sooner or later.

If what you're asking for is SWG-style housing on the landscape, not only would that require entire new zones specifically made to drop big prefabricated buildings onto (and a nightmare of additional coding to make it work with the current engine!), but it'd do little to serve or please much of the current gamerbase, chasing after a minority that is better served in MMOs that have static, modifiable housing in them from the start.

Ultima Online is still around. Or, if you prefer sci-fi, check out the upcoming "The Repopulation".

LadyDrusilla's Avatar


LadyDrusilla
03.05.2013 , 11:48 PM | #234
Quote:
I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be depicted because it isn't at all relevant to the narrative.
While "never leave the battlefield without permission" is true, in that as a player you have final say of what your character does, Every Character is guided along by someone of note in the Republic/Empire or the Jedi/Sith, and every country you visit is a warzone.
Fair enough, but I disagree. Not everything in SWTOR is based dogmatically around the narrative, Huttball, for example. One could even argue for player housing colonies on conquered worlds as a method used by both sides to aid in pacificaion if you did want to dress it up in some kind of narrative. Of course this assumes that player housing has to literally be housing, as I've said ship customisation and decoration would suffice.

Quote:
Demand alone isn't enough to justify something being included in a game, regardless of the genre. In fact I would suggest more often than not the way most games get ruined (especially for MMO's) is by attempting to do all things for all people.
I never said it did, but one can make a strong argument for man material benefits to BW for including player housing. Those who want it will be happy, it appeals to many people and adds a new thing to show off to help entice people to the game. Adding decoration schemes, furniture etc. to the cartel market will also make them money.
Quote:
I'm not saying that people who want it shouldn't camp for it. I simply don't think it fits in with everything else the game is trying to do.
I disagree, I think it aids immersion and community and would in no way adversely impact the game. But thank you for expressing your opinion sensibly and politely.

Quote: Originally Posted by Neverfar
Saying something is so does not make it so, even on the internet. Saying oneself is "rational" or even "calm" is more self-gratifying than self-evident. The more you throw the word "logic" around to promote yourself or to belittle those you argue with, the less meaning or believability the word has. It's like those people who say everyone to the left of "screw the poor" are "socialists". The word starts to lose both teeth and meaning.
I think this speaks of your own frustration more than it does mine. I am not throwing the word logic around, I've used it once or twice and thereafter only in response to your erroneous claims about my intent. I am not even belittling you by doing so. Irrelevant analogies are irrelevant. As for being calm and rational, I will let the tone and content of my posts speak for me.

Quote:
It's an attempt, and a weak one, to belittle those who disagree.
It is not, it pointing out what I perceive to be a flawed argument.

Quote:
Back to the point: unless it's ship customization you are after (which seems to be well in line with developer intentions for the game, an extension of what they've already offered with integrated GTN terminals, repair droids, and even training dummies), it's likely to happen sooner or later.
I would be happy with that.

Quote:
If what you're asking for is SWG-style housing on the landscape, not only would that require entire new zones specifically made to drop big prefabricated buildings onto (and a nightmare of additional coding to make it work with the current engine!), but it'd do little to serve or please much of the current gamerbase, chasing after a minority that is better served in MMOs that have static, modifiable housing in them from the start.
I do not want SWG style player cities, they were a nightmare. If there were to be planetside player housing at all (which I would like but I certainly will not be upset if it never happens) I would want it to be in instanced neighborhoods along the lines of LOTRO. Even simply an instanced apartment inside a larger building would be perfectly fine, though an instanced area with multiple player houses and outside areas to gather would be my preference for RP and community building reasons. But this is not a demand, merely an opinion.

Quote:
Ultima Online is still around. Or, if you prefer sci-fi, check out the upcoming "The Repopulation"
You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I am unhappy with SWTOR. I am not. I do not require player housing to make me love this game, it is simply content I would like to see added in the future. If not, oh well.
This blonde loves her Hutts, the bigger, the better.

Neverfar's Avatar


Neverfar
03.06.2013 , 12:00 AM | #235
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyDrusilla View Post
Fair enough, but I disagree. Not everything in SWTOR is based dogmatically around the narrative, Huttball, for example. One could even argue for player housing colonies on conquered worlds as a method used by both sides to aid in pacificaion if you did want to dress it up in some kind of narrative. Of course this assumes that player housing has to literally be housing, as I've said ship customisation and decoration would suffice.


I never said it did, but one can make a strong argument for man material benefits to BW for including player housing. Those who want it will be happy, it appeals to many people and adds a new thing to show off to help entice people to the game. Adding decoration schemes, furniture etc. to the cartel market will also make them money.

I disagree, I think it aids immersion and community and would in no way adversely impact the game. But thank you for expressing your opinion sensibly and politely.


I think this speaks of your own frustration more than it does mine. I am not throwing the word logic around, I've used it once or twice and thereafter only in response to your erroneous claims about my intent. I am not even belittling you by doing so. Irrelevant analogies are irrelevant. As for being calm and rational, I will let the tone and content of my posts speak for me.


It is not, it pointing out what I perceive to be a flawed argument.


I would be happy with that.


I do not want SWG style player cities, they were a nightmare. If there were to be planetside player housing at all (which I would like but I certainly will not be upset if it never happens) I would want it to be in instanced neighborhoods along the lines of LOTRO. Even simply an instanced apartment inside a larger building would be perfectly fine, though an instanced area with multiple player houses and outside areas to gather would be my preference for RP and community building reasons. But this is not a demand, merely an opinion.


You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I am unhappy with SWTOR. I am not. I do not require player housing to make me love this game, it is simply content I would like to see added in the future. If not, oh well.
Please don't make me scroll up and count the many times you've thrown the word "logic" around. It's much more than once or twice. You either have a vastly inflated appraisal of the value of your own opinions or you have a very fragile point of view of the same that needs to be bolstered. "Rational" counts as well, but even if it didn't, it's quite a bit more than "once or twice."

You'd do well and be much more persuasive in the future if you got off that high chair you made for yourself and accepted that your opinions are just as subjective as the rest of ours.

Funny, I actually agree with most of what you say, but how you say it chafes me and smacks of a lot of bad rhetoric going the rounds these days on the internet.

TalkingDinosaur's Avatar


TalkingDinosaur
03.06.2013 , 12:06 AM | #236
Quote: Originally Posted by Neverfar View Post
Please don't make me scroll up and count the many times you've thrown the word "logic" around. It's much more than once or twice. You either have a vastly inflated appraisal of the value of your own opinions or you have a very fragile point of view of the same that needs to be bolstered. "Rational" counts as well, but even if it didn't, it's quite a bit more than "once or twice."

You'd do well and be much more persuasive in the future if you got off that high chair you made for yourself and accepted that your opinions are just as subjective as the rest of ours.

Funny, I actually agree with most of what you say, but how you say it chafes me and smacks of a lot of bad rhetoric going the rounds these days on the internet.
I can't blame em for being a bit rude in their responses. Player housing keeps being brought up by the SWG fanboys who desperately try to shape SWTOR into SWG 2.
TALKINGDINOSAUR
Squadron
11-11-11

Magnusheart's Avatar


Magnusheart
03.06.2013 , 12:16 AM | #237
Quote: Originally Posted by TalkingDinosaur View Post
I can't blame em for being a bit rude in their responses. Player housing keeps being brought up by the SWG fanboys who desperately try to shape SWTOR into SWG 2.


Exactly, this is a different era, and a different game.


The only thing from SWG that SWTOR needs is more hue color lightsabers, and more ship options.

LadyDrusilla's Avatar


LadyDrusilla
03.06.2013 , 02:08 AM | #238
Quote: Originally Posted by Neverfar View Post
Please don't make me scroll up and count the many times you've thrown the word "logic" around. It's much more than once or twice. You either have a vastly inflated appraisal of the value of your own opinions or you have a very fragile point of view of the same that needs to be bolstered. "Rational" counts as well, but even if it didn't, it's quite a bit more than "once or twice."

You'd do well and be much more persuasive in the future if you got off that high chair you made for yourself and accepted that your opinions are just as subjective as the rest of ours.

Funny, I actually agree with most of what you say, but how you say it chafes me and smacks of a lot of bad rhetoric going the rounds these days on the internet.
I think you are projecting your own issues onto me to be frank. I am not holding my opinion higher than anyone else, I'm simply pointing out that demanding others be deprived of something they want because you do not want it is foolish. I'm putting forward arguments as to why I think player housing would be good for the game, they are my opinion and I've never said otherwise. I'm happy for people to disagree if they can express why politely.

Quote: Originally Posted by TalkingDinosaur View Post
I can't blame em for being a bit rude in their responses. Player housing keeps being brought up by the SWG fanboys who desperately try to shape SWTOR into SWG 2.
It is quite possible to desire player housing without wanting to copy SWG or turn SWTOR into SWG. There is an element of that but and it is silly but constantly dismissing talk of player housing simply because SWG had it is no better.
This blonde loves her Hutts, the bigger, the better.

MajikMyst's Avatar


MajikMyst
03.06.2013 , 02:36 AM | #239
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyDrusilla View Post
It is quite possible to desire player housing without wanting to copy SWG or turn SWTOR into SWG. There is an element of that but and it is silly but constantly dismissing talk of player housing simply because SWG had it is no better.
Nobody is dismissing anything.. But a fact the matter is simply, I have heard a billion times on these forums how wonderful player housing was on SWG.. Going all the way back to the beta.. There is a thread on this very topic on the suggestion forum.. SWG was brought up again as to how wonderful player housing was..

Most people do not want this game to be anything like SWG..

We have our ships.. What is wrong with that?? Why can't you live on your ship??
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?

[.] Lost but never forgotten!! 12-01-2011 R.I.P.

falcon_Xtreme's Avatar


falcon_Xtreme
03.06.2013 , 02:54 AM | #240
Quote: Originally Posted by MajikMyst View Post
Nobody is dismissing anything.. But a fact the matter is simply, I have heard a billion times on these forums how wonderful player housing was on SWG.. Going all the way back to the beta.. There is a thread on this very topic on the suggestion forum.. SWG was brought up again as to how wonderful player housing was.. Most people do not want this game to be anything like SWG.. We have our ships.. What is wrong with that?? Why can't you live on your ship??
you could modify ships in SWG exactly like you could modify the houses. it was fricken awesome. it does not matter if you have heard it a billion times., it has less to do with swg and more to do with customization and immersion for those who enjoy those types of features. lotro has player housing its not great but still its there does that mean i want to make swtor like lotro? no.... taking nice features from other mmo's that made them enjoyable is just smart. we did it with wow without being a clone. so why not other games?.....
REDZONE & PROUD!