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Sorcerer Balance Concept.[also sage]

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sith Inquisitor > Sorcerer
Sorcerer Balance Concept.[also sage]

Zeeleido's Avatar


Zeeleido
02.06.2013 , 05:47 PM | #1
Ok......... before i get into this i want to point out from a personal basis that i believe sorcerer should be in fact a "glass cannon" and should not have massive defensive cd's but at the same time that does not mean it cant have some thing a tad unique.

As we all know Sorcerer is not so much a "DPS" class in the pvp sense. its damage is by far the lowest of all the classes. however it is a Utility class. so for this class to truly live up to its potential and be a real contender it would need to do 1 of 2 things. become a dedicated utility class or a dps class with reduced utility. i'm not here to pick 1 or the other but id like to post some changes that might work to balance out sorcerer.


Talent Changes:
---------------------------
1) first thing id like to bring up is backlash the dreaded "bubble stun" as it stands its 1 of the only defensive talents sorcerer has and imo quite frankly its not really needed. we are not suppose to be "tanky" but instead we are suppose to be a force power damage dealer. so keeping to this point here is my solution.

Have backlash instead work as a "reverse guard" skill. what i mean by this is we all know static barrier can absorb 4.5k~5k damage then its gone. but what if instead of a bubble stun affect it was a self cast only ability that has a 1:1 ratio damage reflect.

for example Static Barrier: absorb 4500 damage. melee attacker hits it and for every hit damage is reflected equal to the damage dealt till shield is broken at 4500. however to keep this ability from being op they can limit its range. since every class (including melee classes like jugg/mara/pyro ext... all have a ranged attack. whether it be a saber throw or a auto attack they have it. which would allow them to break the shield without reflect.

this would make melee classes actually have to use tactics against a sorcerer rather then button mash the same rotation for a easy kill on a squishy target.

Pros: Hard Counter for melee rushers who blindly rush in. and would basically help sorcerer with dps on such targets by turning their own damage against them with the force.

Cons: Static barrier reflect would in no way affect ranged attacks making ranged classes the hard counter to sorcerer.

yes. that's how game design works.

Melee > ranged > Utility > Melee
Warrior > Rouge > Mage > Warrior. such was the baseline concept for balance before wow came along and ruined all of that. hence why wow was never truly "balanced" swtor for the most part tried to become a wow clone in that sense and we all see how that works balance wise.
^----- proper game design of hard counters and balance.

does that mean X class should always beat Y class? no. but if X is the counter to Y X should have a slight advantage over Y before gear + skill are brought into the mix.

Example: Same gear + same skill X class + Y class fight. X would have more room for error vs Y class. as supposed to if X class fought Z class in which case the tables would be turned.

Note: 30 second lockout time would still persist keeping this skill from being op.


2) Next is Sith Defiance. every sorcerer agrees that this talent has no right to be on any sorcerer tree due to the fact that its just plain useless.

2 point talent that offers 2% damage reduction and contributes almost nothing to the madness build itself.
once again. sorcerer should be a glass cannon and focus on damage instead of tank ability.
so this should instead be a 2 point talent that increases all skill damage by 2%

3) following the above examples id like to bring forth this idea for a change to Corrupted Flesh. what i propose is instead of 7.5~14% damage reduction to dot damage. make it a 7.5~14% boost to dot damage. as we all know the dot damage for sorcerer is laughable. force lightning is fine. shock damage is fine. but if you look at the dot damage its just a joke.

(min max gear damage in pvp gear)
-----------------------------------
Affliction: 2400 damage over 21 seconds.

Ok.... if you don't see the problem here you don't understand what a dot is. 2400 damage over 21 seconds is 114 damage per tick per second. and most dots are mitigated by armor. with the exception of crushing darkness. so ya.... that can be lower.

Crushing Darkness: 1354 ~1422(first hit) 1854 over 8 seconds. [231 damage per tick].
Damage wise this dot is average. the problem is. its 2 second cast dot(not instant) unless you talent into it. and even then the talent requires you to spam force lightning (stand still) till wrath procs then you can instant cast it.

Creeping Terror(31 madness skill dot): root + 2150 damage over 18 seconds [119 damage per tick]
this skill is basically a affliction with a root.

Force Slow: This is not a dot. it has about 1k tooltip damage which is heavily mitigated by armor.

the biggest misconception about sorcerer is that they do "good damage" but sorcerer pretty much manipulate the score board in pvp/pve that makes them look better then they actually are.

if you tab dot (spammable affliction) you can get massive dps numbers in pvp. but you contribute nothing. to your team at all. 114 damage per tick on a enemy wont kill that enemy. nor will it help capture or defend a objective.

my proposal is increase the cool down on all 3 dots. but in exchange do a massive damage overhaul on them. 114 damage per tick on targets who have 20k+ hp is unacceptable. especially when you only have 3 dots. that all do roughly the same damage.(assuming your 31 point speced madness, which offers virtually no defensive utility of the 3 specs)

raising the cool down would stop tab dotting and would give proper numbers in matches to properly show how well that class is doing.

force slow is fine as is.

re-work consumption. or give a proper resource management talent/skill for heal spec sorcerer. madness sorcerer has 1. lightning sorcerer has 1. heal spec does not.
aside from that heal spec is perfectly fine.

oh. almost forgot. Cloud mind could use a reduce to its cd in pve. Since if the sorcerer in your group has agro. nothing will go well with that situation. (applies for healer and dps)

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
02.06.2013 , 08:41 PM | #2
Bright green text is annoying and gives me a head ache. Change the color and ill actually read it
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

Sosajoshua's Avatar


Sosajoshua
02.08.2013 , 01:54 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralParmesan View Post
Bright green text is annoying and gives me a head ache. Change the color and ill actually read it
I thought i was the only one
<A Wretched Hive> Jedi Covenant Rhaegis, Madness Sorcerer / Youngdragon, Advanced Proto-tech / Kha'leesi, Engineering Sniper / Dragonbane, Vengence Juggernaut

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
02.08.2013 , 05:21 PM | #4
Ok i bothered reading it, seeing green dots now but oh well.

1st your perception of balance, I don't agree with. For you the "perfect" balance concept is a rock, paper, scissor game.

While I had a lot of funs with pokemon games when I was a kid (and a teen lets admit) I don't exactly see WZ objectives as "a warrior! Go sorcerer!"

Balance is giving classes each their strenght and weaknesses, and its up to the player to play to them. Melees are typically hard hitters with closer ability, that can be kept at range by ranged class. Glass cannons are the type that DO a lot of damage, but receive it even harder. They are the antagonist of tanks in a way. And imo they should be the dps answer to a tank. Elemental/force based.

As far as your point goes : DoTs needs to be revised to allow burst. I'm hoping for a "detonate" synergy on especially creeping terror, or at least a way to make it tick faster at first (heavily "front loaded" in a way)

You also totally reversed something : crushing darkness is mitigated by armor, affliction and CT aren't.

Most dot spec in the game, other than annihilation aren't so much about "high" dots, but about applying those dots and complete with sustained. For pvp, its easily countered by heals, and a sorc's ability to burst someone down as pure madness is called "death field". A good aoe heal would completely nuke your dots, and maybe cleanse them. Tab-dotting can work. However not by itself, but you may give your team an edge with it. In normal WZ, well everyone is farming medals, so you might as well. It only to make the healer's job of cleansing harder.

What sorc need in the end is not so much defensive cooldowns, but a way to be able to use them (right now its a class with its "escape" move being less good than the mara's)

What it needs is being less mitigated by armor, and give as fast as it will take.

glocklB's Avatar


glocklB
02.13.2013 , 03:04 AM | #5
Balance... damn, i thought someone could wrote something interesting about balance spec.

Quote:
Ok......... before i get into this i want to point out from a personal basis that i believe sorcerer should be in fact a "glass cannon" and should not have massive defensive cd's but at the same time that does not mean it cant have some thing a tad unique.

As we all know Sorcerer is not so much a "DPS" class in the pvp sense. its damage is by far the lowest of all the classes. however it is a Utility class. so for this class to truly live up to its potential and be a real contender it would need to do 1 of 2 things. become a dedicated utility class or a dps class with reduced utility. i'm not here to pick 1 or the other but id like to post some changes that might work to balance out sorcerer.
This summary is pretty much wrong in my opinion
<Reckoning> The Red Eclipse - Marine, sorcerer
<Nostrum Dolus> Tomb of Freedon Nadd - Walsix, sage

glocklB's Avatar


glocklB
02.13.2013 , 03:18 AM | #6
OP, do you even play a sorcerer? Affliction and creeping terror tickning each second, really?! I guess if you would play you could be able to notice that they tick every 3 seconds. Interesting fact, that i have 600-700 and 700-800 crit ticks on creeping terror and affliction respectively, and that's not actually bad. For real vigilance guardians have really laughable dots.

Overall as usual all suggestions are for the sake of making sorcerer class OP.
<Reckoning> The Red Eclipse - Marine, sorcerer
<Nostrum Dolus> Tomb of Freedon Nadd - Walsix, sage

wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
02.13.2013 , 05:37 AM | #7
im fine with getting bent over in warzones if more than 1 person decides to attack me, im fine being on the short end defensively..

but where's the fking offense?

you cant deprive us of both, off healing as dps is a joke...

snipers put out twice the burst with much better defense/survivability..

gives us defense or give us (which i prefer) more offense, starting with a harder hitting shock, lightning strike, thundering blast, bring up base dmg of deathfield to match a 31 madness spec and change the 30% deathfield crit bonus talents to something else.

also crushing darkness should be either ONE of TWO things for sorcs, either keep the 2s activation and get rid of the cooldown.... or make it INSTANT and keep the cooldown

theres no reason for a moderate hitting, single target ability to have both a 2s activation and long cooldown, i would personally approve it to be instant to help our mobility, with every tick of force lightning reducing the cooldown of CD by .5 seconds BANG big help right there
NIHIL

THE BASTION

malicnchains's Avatar


malicnchains
02.13.2013 , 01:35 PM | #8
Point blank madness specs dots should hit harder,and lightnings lightning spells should hit harder.