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Republic Vs. Empire


_Darkstar's Avatar


_Darkstar
01.22.2013 , 08:46 AM | #51
If you take the Sith out of it I haven't seen many people in the Empire (Played all but SW) kill their subordinates without a good reason.

Failure is not tolerated but it is only dismal failure that is punishable by death, and that means they did something very wrong (My real life view interjects here though, because if someone fails then their manager has also failed for appointing said person). I often wish failure in real life had similar punishments.

But look at it another way:
  • If there was no Sith/Empire the Republic would still be a chaotic place, with crime, political infighting and poverty.
  • If there was no Jedi/Republic/Rebels the Empire would be ordered, peaceful and crime free (Admittedly with slavery). Only the Sith would need fearing, and they are the Empires downfall.

The Empire is dictatorship which means the most powerful can easily lead it, they are just set in a time where unfortunately those people who hold that power are evil and self serving.
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

_Darkstar's Avatar


_Darkstar
01.22.2013 , 08:55 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
The Empire = Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I completely disagree with that line.

I find it more like if there is a position of absolute power the path to that position is filled with treachery and corruption to the point that it takes a corrupt person to actually reach that level of power. There was a quote about power being magnetic to corrupt personalities or something.

The Empire is a perfect representation of this, to become the head of the Empire you need to be very powerful. The only 2 people really at this power level tend to be the Emperor and whoever leads the Jedi. But the Emperor is corrupt and happy to abuse his power to get that authority, and the Jedi will never abuse his power in such a way. The Emperor wasn't corrupted by being placed in charge, he got there because he was happy to abuse his power in order to gain more power.

Look at most of the military dictatorships in the real world, military generals get to generalship often by following very questionable orders, and those who disobey those orders because of their morals never get promoted. Then when there is a power vacuum those morally questionable generals are well placed to seize power for themselves. Once in power they maintain it by continuing the corruption which got them their power in the first place, though sometimes because more people rebel against their authority it just seems like they are abusing the power more than before, the reality is that more people force them into it.

North Korea is a good example, the majority of the people there actually think they are being well looked after, so they do not revolt and they do not need putting down like the people in some other similar countries (Syria I think). But you can guarantee that if the North Korean's start to rebel they will be put down.
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.22.2013 , 08:59 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by _Darkstar View Post
If you take the Sith out of it I haven't seen many people in the Empire (Played all but SW) kill their subordinates without a good reason.

Failure is not tolerated but it is only dismal failure that is punishable by death, and that means they did something very wrong (My real life view interjects here though, because if someone fails then their manager has also failed for appointing said person). I often wish failure in real life had similar punishments.

But look at it another way:
  • If there was no Sith/Empire the Republic would still be a chaotic place, with crime, political infighting and poverty.
  • If there was no Jedi/Republic/Rebels the Empire would be ordered, peaceful and crime free (Admittedly with slavery). Only the Sith would need fearing, and they are the Empires downfall.

The Empire is dictatorship which means the most powerful can easily lead it, they are just set in a time where unfortunately those people who hold that power are evil and self serving.
Sith killed less subordinates than officers. They need to be feared, they are the ultimate weapon of the Empire, very often the most intelligent, their projects change every day of the Empire. They are good at their jobs.

also, it is not a dictatorship, it is illuminated absolute monarchy.
without a Sith, there is a possibility that it would fall into disgrace in form of democracy - as it is the easiest way to manipulate whole nations - and on the galactic scale, the most probable outcome.
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

-Star-Scream-'s Avatar


-Star-Scream-
01.22.2013 , 11:19 AM | #54
Everybody seems to forget that the Sith are actually the first victims. The sith started when the jedi started a civil war and defeated the jedi that began to think about the different side of the force (dark side). That repeats throughout Galactic History, even to the point the Jedi and Republic massacred millions of sith hoping to wipe them out. The Empire in SWTOR is the survivors that are simply looking for revenge.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.22.2013 , 11:43 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by -Star-Scream- View Post
Everybody seems to forget that the Sith are actually the first victims. The sith started when the jedi started a civil war and defeated the jedi that began to think about the different side of the force (dark side). That repeats throughout Galactic History, even to the point the Jedi and Republic massacred millions of sith hoping to wipe them out. The Empire in SWTOR is the survivors that are simply looking for revenge.
You could not be more wrong.

The first Sith (if we are referring to the Hundred Year Darkness) abused their Dark powers by twisting creatures and deforming them, turning them into monsters. The Jedi told them to stop, but they refused, leading to their exile. Then they come back with more twisted creations and wage war on the Jedi Order, which they lost badly. Then the Jedi banished the survivors to the Unknown reaches of space. The Jedi could have killed them, but banished them instead.

Flash-forward and Naga Sadow leads a massive invasion of the Republic, which is put down after his student betrays him. The Republic then decides to invade Sith space to prevent another war. Some Sith killed themselves through Dark Rituals. Some made suicide attacks on Republic forces. Many were killed by the Sith Emperor. Others were severed from The Force by Odan-Urr. The number of Sith that were actually killed by the Republic is quite low. And technically, the Republic's invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Great Hyperspace War. So the Sith are victims of their own war.
Added Chapter 64 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.22.2013 , 12:01 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
You could not be more wrong.

The first Sith (if we are referring to the Hundred Year Darkness) abused their Dark powers by twisting creatures and deforming them, turning them into monsters. The Jedi told them to stop, but they refused, leading to their exile. Then they come back with more twisted creations and wage war on the Jedi Order, which they lost badly. Then the Jedi banished the survivors to the Unknown reaches of space. The Jedi could have killed them, but banished them instead.

Flash-forward and Naga Sadow leads a massive invasion of the Republic, which is put down after his student betrays him. The Republic then decides to invade Sith space to prevent another war. Some Sith killed themselves through Dark Rituals. Some made suicide attacks on Republic forces. Many were killed by the Sith Emperor. Others were severed from The Force by Odan-Urr. The number of Sith that were actually killed by the Republic is quite low. And technically, the Republic's invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Great Hyperspace War. So the Sith are victims of their own war.
I love that word "abuse", another shiny example of wide spread delicious propaganda. You do not abuse power, you use it however you like, you do with it what you want - and they were conducting experiments, they were creating first line forces - but what jedi did? jedi, in their ignorance and stupidity exiled them, they couldnt accept their intelectual superiority, their courage, so supressed by narrow minded moral code they cast them away. They are responsible for whatever happend next, revange is a natural and the most beautiful form of justice that Sith understand very well.
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

-Star-Scream-'s Avatar


-Star-Scream-
01.22.2013 , 12:02 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
You could not be more wrong.

The first Sith (if we are referring to the Hundred Year Darkness) abused their Dark powers by twisting creatures and deforming them, turning them into monsters. The Jedi told them to stop, but they refused, leading to their exile. Then they come back with more twisted creations and wage war on the Jedi Order, which they lost badly. Then the Jedi banished the survivors to the Unknown reaches of space. The Jedi could have killed them, but banished them instead.

Flash-forward and Naga Sadow leads a massive invasion of the Republic, which is put down after his student betrays him. The Republic then decides to invade Sith space to prevent another war. Some Sith killed themselves through Dark Rituals. Some made suicide attacks on Republic forces. Many were killed by the Sith Emperor. Others were severed from The Force by Odan-Urr. The number of Sith that were actually killed by the Republic is quite low. And technically, the Republic's invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Great Hyperspace War. So the Sith are victims of their own war.
Well ok then! Guess I was wrong and I have no problems admitting that, unlike some people on the forum, but I'm just curious as the history diaries on the website said how the republic "could have stopped there" but went on to kill the sith which made them want revenge?

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.22.2013 , 12:34 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by -Star-Scream- View Post
Well ok then! Guess I was wrong and I have no problems admitting that, unlike some people on the forum, but I'm just curious as the history diaries on the website said how the republic "could have stopped there" but went on to kill the sith which made them want revenge?
I'll ignore Surinen's reply because he is such an obvious troll (or simply a very dark person).

Could the Jedi have stopped? Probably. But the Sith were still strong and the Supreme Chancellor wanted to prevent another war.

But technically, the invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Hyperspace War. So the Republic really didn't do anything wrong (besides war, but they were only retaliating).
Added Chapter 64 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

DMOMO's Avatar


DMOMO
01.22.2013 , 01:35 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I'll ignore Surinen's reply because he is such an obvious troll (or simply a very dark person).

Could the Jedi have stopped? Probably. But the Sith were still strong and the Supreme Chancellor wanted to prevent another war.

But technically, the invasion of Sith Space was apart of the Hyperspace War. So the Republic really didn't do anything wrong (besides war, but they were only retaliating).
I don't know. If he actually believe the nonsense that he spouts then I would very much doubt his intelligence. Maybe he should live under a dictatorship and see how easy it is to gain power or be one of the higher ups.

I certainly hope he is trolling. I can't or rather don't want to believe someone that ignorant can exist.
"They always lock the door. You’d think they’d have learned by now. Doesn’t look like there’s a key – that would be too easy. The console to unlock the door is probably hidden in some room twelve floors up or something… how does that make sense?"
―Kyle Katarn

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.22.2013 , 01:53 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by DMOMO View Post
I don't know. If he actually believe the nonsense that he spouts then I would very much doubt his intelligence. Maybe he should live under a dictatorship and see how easy it is to gain power or be one of the higher ups.

I certainly hope he is trolling. I can't or rather don't want to believe someone that ignorant can exist.
I do not believe, I know that it is true. Again, Sith Empire is not a dictatorship but an absolute monarchy. Then we are in the same category, or at least we were, at this point, my opinion about your certain traits is definately stabilized and clear. You have very much idealistic, almost fable like approach to existence of living organisms if you think that dictatorships are bad or wrong. I'm afraid that ignorance is your strongest quality and you may have a chance to become a senatore in a democratic country, after all, strings adore lively puppets.
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.