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Kaggath Heats: Darth Revan vs Skere Kaan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Heats: Darth Revan vs Skere Kaan

steaktrooper's Avatar


steaktrooper
12.30.2012 , 10:26 PM | #31
I was gonna try and fight for Kaan but when Aurbere supports something your argument is basically dead.
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Sith Covenant / Jedi Covenant @ The Harbinger

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.31.2012 , 12:28 AM | #32
A couple points about the Sith:

Sith are more likely to defect to Kaan's side. The concept of "being equal" to everyone would seems very appealing to the force users under Revan's command. After all, being a Sith is all about power. If Kaan is offering power equal to his own to defectors, they'd be fools not to accept.

Also, 20,000 Sith Lords means 20,000 Sith Lords ready to train apprentices. Sith have been know to take more than one, and it doesn't take long to teach the dark side. It might take a while to master it, but it seems like you can become a Sith rather easily. Kaan's Sith forces could double or even triple if this war is extended.

And lastly, on battle meditation. This has been largely overlooked. Consider this: Battle Meditation enabled a battered and worn post- Jedi Civil War Republic fleet to battle the full might of the functioning Star Forge. They held out and even won against those forces. Add Sith and a stronger fleet, and battle meditation could very well be the fall of the Star Forge forces, for sure when it's not creating more and more as the battle goes on.
~~ AiR ~~
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A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

ReiKai's Avatar


ReiKai
12.31.2012 , 01:22 AM | #33
You're forgetting a number of key factors. For one, Kaan's Sith were largely WEAK. And Revan treated his followers well, which included Aliens. And they had a Power Structure. Kaan didn't. And there weren't "20k Sith Lords". He had that many 'sith' under his command, but not all of them had the Lord title. Only a fraction of them did, because only a fraction of them had the capability to become Lords. Kaan isn't nearly as charismatic as Revan, and the problem with Kaan's plan is quite simple; if all Lords are equal in status to Kaan, why should any of them listen to him at all?

One of the primary reasons why all the Sith and Dark Jedi follow Revan is because they Know, without any doubt, that he is powerful. He's proven it. He's demonstrated his unparallelled skill. He did what no one else could do. What did Kaan do? He got angry at his Brother, cried, ran away, and made his own club to get back at his bro for picking on him. That was basically it.

Also, you're forgetting that Battle Meditation isn't just used to Bolster your own forces, it is used to diminish the morale and Weaken your adversaries as well. I will also point out that it was Bastila using her BM to do this, not Kaan. Kaan required a Meditation Chamber to even use it effectively. Bastila did not. BM for Kaan is more of a Crutch, since he had to use it constantly just to keep his own followers in line. Anyone strong enough to resist him, like Bane, aren't going to fall under his sway. Ka'sim was too strong to be swayed, but he had few options as to what he could do in the big picture.

It's not known if Revan could use BM or not. However, Revan did not require it. Revan had strategy. He was a brilliant tactician and has some of the best military leaders working for him. Pretty much everything is in Revan's favor.
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konstadinosblue's Avatar


konstadinosblue
12.31.2012 , 06:22 AM | #34
Darth Revan would win in a one-on-one duel,but Kaan's army is pretty big.Hmm...Revan's army was bigger,and
we don't have much information on the Brotherhood.And I don't think it was very strong.It couldn't defeat the
Republic in its weaken state.Revan did.Revan's region was two times larger than the Hutt Space.
So yeah.....probably Revan.

Wait a minute! Aurbere supports Revan!? We're so totaly gonna win!
Ahsoka: "Well, you want the bad news, or the really bad news?"
Obi-Wan: "Well, let's try the bad news laced with a little optimism."
―Ahsoka Tano and Obi-Wan Kenobi, attempting to flee from Mortis

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.31.2012 , 06:32 AM | #35
'I used to be an adventurer like you, then HK-47 showed me what "love" was' ~ Meatbag

I'd like to make a few points. I was expecting a lot of support for Kaan and so prepared this counter argument, but what the hell I'll post it anyway, grind Kaan's face into the dirt, why not? While Kaan has legions of Sith which will no doubt give him significant advantages in space, ground and destabilizing infrastructure (via assassination). He has two glaring weaknesses.

1. Kaan is not particularly powerful. He was in fact fairly weak, and hid this weakness through his 'Rule of Strong' and charismatic, force fueled, leadership. This makes him extremely vulnerable to assassination, and Revan has a small army of assassins ready to do exactly that. How long will it be before Revan's simply assassinates Kaan?

2. Kaan's "Rule of Strong" is a perversion of the darkside and destined to fall apart. While rules dictate that Bane is not hell bent on destroying the Sith, his desire for power remains. Anyone who has read the Bane Trilogy will know that Bane regarded Revan as the greatest Sith Lord who ever lived, and inspired Bane's Rule of Two. While Bane will cause some heavy damage in the opening to the war. Revan will quickly recognizes him as a considerbale threat, and being Revan will attempt to convert him. All Revan has to is have Bane subdued and captured, then brought before Revan, and turned. Revan will promise him power, and a more powerful order of Sith Lords. Bane will become Darth Bane (remember while Revan ruled against having more than one apprentice, he doesn't have to train Bane. There were 2 other Darths in Revan's empire before his betrayal) and become Revan's weapon. Who could easily assassinate Kaan.

You ask why Bane is in Kaan's powerbase, well one he needed and ally, and two it only goes to show what a huge weakness Kaan's Sith philosophy was to him.

I've probably just driven a stake through Kaan's heart just there, but what the hell - the point had to be made.

There is one thing that could save Kaan from defeat however... Malak. He wasn't exactly loyal, and may be persuaded to ally himself with Kaan and betray his Master. Effectively taking control of the Brotherhood. It is an interesting point to consider, what would happen if the allies switched sides?

Canino's Avatar


Canino
12.31.2012 , 07:43 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
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MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.31.2012 , 08:15 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by steaktrooper View Post
I was gonna try and fight for Kaan but when Aurbere supports something your argument is basically dead.
Ouch.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.31.2012 , 08:16 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
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mefit's Avatar


mefit
12.31.2012 , 08:25 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
A couple points about the Sith:

Sith are more likely to defect to Kaan's side. The concept of "being equal" to everyone would seems very appealing to the force users under Revan's command. After all, being a Sith is all about power. If Kaan is offering power equal to his own to defectors, they'd be fools not to accept.

Also, 20,000 Sith Lords means 20,000 Sith Lords ready to train apprentices. Sith have been know to take more than one, and it doesn't take long to teach the dark side. It might take a while to master it, but it seems like you can become a Sith rather easily. Kaan's Sith forces could double or even triple if this war is extended.

And lastly, on battle meditation. This has been largely overlooked. Consider this: Battle Meditation enabled a battered and worn post- Jedi Civil War Republic fleet to battle the full might of the functioning Star Forge. They held out and even won against those forces. Add Sith and a stronger fleet, and battle meditation could very well be the fall of the Star Forge forces, for sure when it's not creating more and more as the battle goes on.
Sith do not want Equal , they want to Rule . Kaan's ways were his down fall when he was faced with a Real Sith . Bane would have defected to Revan without a Doubt . Bane respected the dead Darth Revan without a doubt more than he ever did Kaan . Bane considered to be Powerful in his own time says alot on how he thought of Revan . Once Bane and Revan started killing through all those 20,000 Sith that were not Trainned Equal under Kaan , the Smart ones would likely defect to Revan's Sith Empire .

Bane pretty much destroyed Kaan's brotherhood by himself , add him to the Revan crew and now you have it gone faster.

In the end after Kaan is dead and Bane has learned everything he can from Revan , he will challenge him , most likely win , and go on to be the Bane we all read about still .

Bane is the a not needed Key , Revan was better than Kaan Period . Kaan was not a powerful Sithlord or Combatant , he lived off his Charisma till someone came along that was not effected by it . Bane was like the Real Sith of the Old Republic and Sidious of the later Republic , he did not want EQUAL , he wanted to RULE .

Revan's Empire never Promises Equal , playing KotoR and going to Korriban you learn that quickly . Revan's Empire allowed only the Strong and the Fit to be at the Top and Bane would enjoy that like he did Canonly .

I give this fight to Darth Revan , Bane would be the overkill .
Give a Man a Mask and he'll become his true self

mefit's Avatar


mefit
12.31.2012 , 08:28 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by steaktrooper View Post
I was gonna try and fight for Kaan but when Aurbere supports something your argument is basically dead.
This suprised me , being Aurbere picked Kaan over Revan in the losers fight .

I cannot see how the outcome would be any different than Revan winning , more so with Bane being allowed in the fight .
Give a Man a Mask and he'll become his true self