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Kaggath Heats: General Grievous vs Mandalore the Ultimate

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Heats: General Grievous vs Mandalore the Ultimate

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
12.27.2012 , 10:36 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
I will hopefully have connection in a couple days, so I shouldn't be out of the debate for too long! I get back in a week. Would it be too much to ask to know when that G0-T0 one is coming?


4.) No diversity.

Everybody talk about the Basilisk war droids and how great they are. I agree completely.
However.
Is their another example of a ground vechicle for the Mandos? At this point it seems like all the Mandos have as far as ground troops are
a. Foot Soldiers (w/o Beskar)
b. Basilisk War Droids.

That's kinda weak. The CIS has so much diversity and adaptability in its troops compared to the Mandos.


5.)Just a couple things that could counter Basilisks:
- Hailfire Droids
- This thing


6.) Also, please explain how the Mandalorians plan to kill this thing?

Super Tank ftw.


7.) Assassins
CIS has tons.
- Anzati Assassins
- A-series
- Assassin Probe
Mandos have none.


Ok, ok, I'm getting carried away. Sorry, I'm trying to make it up to Grievous and the CIS for letting them lose before.
Sure, the CIS has some diversity. But let's not forget that 90% (that's a guess) of Greivous's army is gonna be made up of the B1s.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.27.2012 , 10:38 AM | #12
Edit: Oh nvrm lol, misread.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Canino's Avatar


Canino
12.27.2012 , 11:50 AM | #13
Taken from Wookieepedia
Quote:
B1 droids often employed sophisticated tactics in battle. Massed parade ranks or simple swarms were used, and they often displayed a concept of cover.[10] During the Clone Wars, however, there was the inevitable development of wartime, and B1 programming began to show some improvement. Nevertheless, their in-battle reactions were often slow, and such initiative as was shown was slight.[2] General Grievous, the commander of the droid army, hated battle droids for their weakness in comparison to the Republic's clone troopers.
I decided to fight for Mandalore, even though I think Greievous has a better probability to win.

I think Greivous would win a few battles, but he despised the B1's, and Mandolarians are better than clones(right?) If B1's weren't good fighting the the clones, they won't stand a chance for Mandos.
After doing some research on B1's they could do many things, and even fight(and some times succeed) in hand-to-hand combat. But Mandos were trained the day they were born in hand-to-hand combat, and I think they would win.
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.27.2012 , 12:05 PM | #14
For the purposes of this tournament and future match-ups, I will take an analytical approach to these battles and decide the victor from there. So let's begin.

Industry: General Grievous is capable of building droids faster than the Mandalorians can kill them, and build fleets faster than Mandalore can. Edge=Grievous

Numbers (Not exact numbers): The Droid Army had numbers in excess of 1 trillion droids, whereas the Mandalorians had (I think) a couple hundred thousand. The Clone Army managed to hold them off due to superior training, Jedi leadership, and having (I think) over 1 billion soldiers. Mandalore doesn't have the numbers that Grievous does. Edge=Grievous.

Troop strength: The majority of the Droid Army was comprised of B1 Battle Droids, but they also had the powerful B2 Battle Droids, experimental B3 Battle Droids(not going to do much I'm afraid), Droideka's, Magnaguards, and the list goes on. Mandalore had the Neo-Crusaders, your average Mandalorian, and Mandalorian Commandos. In terms of Troop Strength: Mandalore will be able to take the B1 Battle Droids pretty easily, but the other droids will pose problems. Mandalore wins here, but numbers are a factor in this category as well.

Troop Adaptability: The CIS can manufacture new droids to handle different conditions very quickly, but Mandalore's troops can adapt almost on the fly. Mandalore wins here (barely).

Vehicles: From what I can tell, Mandalore only has the Basilisk War Droids for his vehicles. General Grievous has far more. He has the AAT, Hailfire Droid, Spider Droids, Dwarf Spider Droids, Armored Tank Droids (the snail looking tanks in ROTS), Droid gunships, and the list continues. The AAT, Hailfire Droid, Spider Droid, and Droid Gunship can all take out Basilisks. Edge: Grievous.

Fleet numbers: The CIS fleets were able to hold off the Republic Navy (powered by the monster Kuat Drive Yards) for three years, whereas Mandalore was able to conquer much of Republic space. However, Mandalore didn't face the production capabilities of the Republic that Grievous did. Not to mention that CIS shipyards were making their own fleets very quickly. Edge=Grievous.

Fleet Firepower: Mandalore's fleets faced relics of the Republic, never truly testing themselves against powerful ships like the Interdictor-class capital ship. General Grievous consistently defeated the powerful Venator-class Star Destroyers and other powerful ships in space combat. Edge=Grievous.

Tacticians: Mandalore and Cassus Fett employed a strategy that allowed them to pick the Republic apart piece by piece, whereas Grievous was able to defeat the Republic forces on several fronts and hold off her massive military power. I'm gonna say that they tie here.

One on one: Mandalore may be a skilled warrior, but he doesn't have the same skills that Obi-Wan Kenobi, Kit Fisto and other powerful Jedi have. Grievous' four lightsabers win the day here. Note that Grievous could just send Ventress to kill Mandalore as well, and she could kill him. Edge=Grievous

Overall, Mandalore will be able to drag out the battle, but he won't last against the overwhelming numbers and firepower of the CIS forces. Grievous wins.

Side-topic: Beni, you should have Jan Dodonna in a future match-up. Seriously, he's like the Sun Tzu of Star Wars.
Added Chapter 34 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.27.2012 , 12:20 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Tyber Zann vs G0-T0 will be the Round 3 of the Heats. And you make very good points, Grievous holds all the guards. However all Mandalore has to do to win is kill Grievous... which at least if he managed to get a 1v1 engagement is definitely possible.
But the only way Mandalore would get a 1v1 engagement is by destroying Grievous's army. Which won't happen.

I think this will end in one of three ways. All favor for Grievous.

1.) The war plays out and Grievous wins. He finds Mandalore and just kills him with his army and/or blowing up where ever he is.

2.) Mandalore is killed by an assassin. This is a bit of a strech, but it's needs to be said that Mandalorians aren't the kind for hiding and playing under-handed like assassins. The CIS, on the other hand, is. There will at least be attempts.

3.) 1v >2 I think it goes without saying, from what we know of Grievous, that he will not go 1v1. He would only do that as a last ditch attmpt. But he's not going to need to take those drastic measures. He will, instead, save Ventress to deal with Mandalore. Grievous + Ventress + Magma guards. Or at least Grievous's MagmaGuards. He always has those things with him.

Mandalore is a great warrior, and he's proven himself in combat. Unfortunately, he has only ever been challenged by single opponents. Overwhelming enemies, the Force, and his sense of honor would doom Maqndalore in a fight against Grievous and his guards.

I'm curious though. If they did go 1v1, what gives you the impression that Mandalore would win?

We are talking about the same Grievous, right?
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.27.2012 , 12:27 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post

Overall, Mandalore will be able to drag out the battle, but he won't last against the overwhelming numbers and firepower of the CIS forces. Grievous wins.
Yeah.... this post.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.27.2012 , 12:30 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Sure, the CIS has some diversity. But let's not forget that 90% (that's a guess) of Greivous's army is gonna be made up of the B1s.
If that was true, there would still be 900 billion advanced and specialized droids for Mandos to kill.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Bird_of_Thunder's Avatar


Bird_of_Thunder
12.27.2012 , 12:37 PM | #18
The Clone Army was growth-accelerated, which means while the trained 24/7, they didn't have the years of experience the Mandalorians had, meaning the Mandalorians probably had ongoing training almost 3 times longer than the clones. Not to mention Mandalore himself held a duel against Revan, but ultimately lost. If not for the interference of Revan and his Jedi, the Mandalorians would've destroyed the Republic. Revan had many Jedi backing him, while the CIS (in this case) had Grievous (a four-armed lightsaber duelist and master strategist, but not Force-sensitive) and Assaj Ventress (a deadly Force-sensitive, lightsaber-weilding assassin). While both are deadly, Mandalore the Ultimate was a profficient duelist and Cassus Fett was a renowned strategist.

However, the CIS had more expansive forces, and if Grievous copied what Revan did (use the Mandalorian tactics against the Mandos), he would have a cutting edge against the Mandos. On the other hand, the Mandalorians commandos were supposedly the best in the galaxy, better than the Republic commandos. This would lead to the commandos performing covert ops against the CIS infrastructure. Not to mention the super-commandos, who are an elite variant of the regular Mando commandos. While CIS commando droids are effective, the Mandalorian commandos have an edge due to expansive training of the Mandalorians vs. programming. While programming may be advance, it cannot necessarily replace the hardcore training of the Mandalorians.

While the CIS fleet was quite large and quite strong, the Mandalorians blocked the Hydian Way (which couldn't be broken by the Republic) until a smuggling cartel assisted the Republic in breaking it. Keep in mind that Hylo Visz was a well-experienced pilot and cunning in general. The CIS fleet was strong, but could still be brought down by the Mandalorians cunning tactics. Here's where the Mandalorian commandos come in again. If the commandos can sneak on board the CIS ships, they could destroy the ship without a large threat looming over them.

In a one-on-one between Grievous and Mandalore, while Grievous has four-arms, Mandalore stood up to Revan. This section goes to Grievous due to the fact that he was one of the greatest Jedi hunters ever.

All in all, I'd give it to the Mandalorians due to their extravagent tactics and the factor of the commandos and supercommandos
Lord Ravvok
Annihilation Marauder
<Ebon Hawk, U.S>

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.27.2012 , 12:45 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Bird_of_Thunder View Post
Not to mention the super-commandos, who are an elite variant of the regular Mando commandos. While CIS commando droids are effective, the Mandalorian commandos have an edge due to expansive training of the Mandalorians vs. programming. While programming may be advance, it cannot necessarily replace the hardcore training of the Mandalorians.

While the CIS fleet was quite large and quite strong, the Mandalorians blocked the Hydian Way (which couldn't be broken by the Republic) until a smuggling cartel assisted the Republic in breaking it. Keep in mind that Hylo Visz was a well-experienced pilot and cunning in general. The CIS fleet was strong, but could still be brought down by the Mandalorians cunning tactics. Here's where the Mandalorian commandos come in again. If the commandos can sneak on board the CIS ships, they could destroy the ship without a large threat looming over them.

All in all, I'd give it to the Mandalorians due to their extravagent tactics and the factor of the commandos and supercommandos
I think people are starting to over-state the importance of special forces. The super-commandos are not going to win the war for Mandalore. They can't destroy one ship at a time or undermine one world's support at a time. There are thousands of both of those.

We have to remember, this is an entire GALAXY. Special Forces do not work as they do on our Earth. The only way tiny Special Forces will make a sizable impact is is they go for the top.


Speaking of cunning tactics.... The CIS was able to make it to Coruscant. What's to stop them from doing the same with Mandalore (the planet)?

(Ok, last post for a couple days! Help me, Grievous supporters!)
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.27.2012 , 01:15 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post

Numbers (Not exact numbers): The Droid Army had numbers in excess of 1 trillion droids
Err, quintillions actually, just saying.