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End Game Crafting Changes for RotHC

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
End Game Crafting Changes for RotHC

HoboWithAStick's Avatar


HoboWithAStick
12.26.2012 , 10:50 AM | #11
He's just upset that because he thinks he should be the only one that is alowed in the market. Find yourself lucky your guild lets you RE things, of course every guild has a different aproach to this. I know things have really gotten out of hand with the current sets but its been a couple months and the time to make the real bucks is gone. Go find another market.

Autorch's Avatar


Autorch
12.26.2012 , 03:08 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
That isn't what I'm asking for at all. I'm actually asking for balance between crew skills while keeping crafting relevant without it taking away from top tier end game content.

It seems silly that right now I have low level cybertech and artifice alts who can craft current BIS items (63) and sell them on the GTN, while my 50 synthweaver and armormech characters cannot even sell the few Rakata (58) or lower items they can craft and for end-game gear are basically irrelevant.

If I was calling the shots, at this point in the game trainable schematics for non-BOP items would exist for everything up to Columi, schematics for Rakata would exist as drops, and from RE and comms, and schematics for BH would exists as drops or RE, with all requiring mats available through multiple sources.

However, schematics for DG (63) gear would only come from RE of DG gear with a very low chance for schematic, and would require rare mats that only dropped / came from DG gear RE.

Also synthweave and armormech would be able to produce useful items for all tiers, such as being able to craft a full piece of armor with mods or equal stats to armor with mods.

And lastly, legacy gear would no longer be capable of sending bound mods to alts.

BTW - Legacy gear was not designed as a way to send bound mods to alts, being able to use legacy gear to send bound mods to alts works because of the way the binding checks only look at the shell (along with Bioware being too lazy or unable to add checks for the mods).

If this was truly by design, wouldn't they just make all gear Bind to Legacy?

I mean why stop with just being able to send mods...why not allow sending of non-moddable armor, relics, implants, and earpieces to alts as well?
I just had to quote this for emphasis, as it's much clearer than your original post. And with that clarity: I agree, I think that crafting really should be like this. I have some similar suggestions, but I'll make another reply for those.

kustrin's Avatar


kustrin
12.26.2012 , 08:29 PM | #13
I'm gonna make an argument for keeping the current system of sending bound end-game mods through Legacy Gear to alts.

1. HAVING MULTIPLE ALTS IS A CORE GAME FEATURE

SWTOR was marketed as being a "story-driven" MMO with a heavy emphasis on leveling multiple alts. It was never designed to appeal to the raid oriented segment of the MMO population like its contemporary, Rift.

Unlike almost every other MMO, you simply cannot experience the majority of what the game has to offer if you only focus on a single "main" to the exclusion of alts because the core differentiating design conceit of this game (class stories) are locked to specific classes.

1.2's introduction of the Legacy system simply reinforced alt leveling as something the Devs wanted players to do. Leveling an alt to 50 simply makes leveling the next one easier, through the self-application of multiple class buffs, XP boosts, Inheritance/Birthright gear given as Chapter rewards etc.

2. END-GAME GEARING/COMMENDATION SYSTEM

Once all my companions are fully kit-ed out in full Columi or Rakata and even BH gear, what am I to do with the extraneous gear/coms? The game does not provide any means to exchange the gear/com rewards I receive from running ops and HM FPs for anything useful to me other than gear that I either already have or is lower tiered. Even as a crafter I can't RE most of the mods/shells I get for useful mats unless I have multiple alts with the appropriate crew skills.

Without the ability to send bound mods to alts to RE into useful mats or a way to spend coms/tokens for things that benefit me, there is no incentive for a geared player to run T1 OPs or even HM FPs thereby reducing the pool of available players; something that is already a problem with the "low" overall game/server population sizes even after the mergers.

After a certain point, even BH coms don't buy much of anything that is an upgrade (ex. Hazmat Implants/Ears @ 350 BH coms/piece don't provide a sufficient stat upgrade over a Rakata piece to be a must buy to anyone but a true min/max'er, especially at that price.)

Finally, simply having extraneous bound, end-game mods in sufficient quantities to gear up an alt must mean that the player must have already done the content multiple times in order to acquire the mods in question.

Hopefully that also means that the player should be sufficiently acquainted with the fights to perform other roles (or the same role with another class) with some level of competence or at least familiarity. At the very least it would make it easier to run KP and EV over and over again learning the nuances of how their newly minted 50 performs at end-game.

TL;DR -

SWTOR has never been a game that emphasizes hardcore end-game raiding. Why should a player who has already experienced most/all of the endgame content be subjected to the full gear grind for each of his alts that he has already experienced on his first character? The player has already paid his dues.

Even though transferring mods is an unintended consequence/perk of the legacy armor system, the rest of the game increases the rewards for each new alt a player levels. What's so wrong about continuing that trend with end-game gearing?

Rincewend's Avatar


Rincewend
12.26.2012 , 08:32 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Autorch View Post
I just had to quote this for emphasis, as it's much clearer than your original post. And with that clarity: I agree, I think that crafting really should be like this. I have some similar suggestions, but I'll make another reply for those.
Agree too, only thing I would add is some kind of fix for the Cartel Market, I really am upset that the new upgrades to ship are so easy to get no point to craft them at all the cost of crafting is too high compared to what you can pay and get off the market. I would also suggest some kind of fix for armor making skills too, other than augments, there is no point to sythweaveing and armortechs with the able cheap supply of orange gear of the market. On Shadowlands, everything but Revan's mask and the white clown face are going for cheap. The dancer outfits can be had for 2k full set. I don't have a Armstech but I would assume he is in the same place too.

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
12.27.2012 , 12:28 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
IMO, current end-game crafting is an imbalanced joke and significant changes should be made to balance crafting as part of RotHC.

//snip
lol, I think we have different opinions on what imbalanced means. Currently, I see that pretty much anybody can participate of end game crafting. What you're asking, imo, is exactly the opposite. You want BW to set rules to benefit very few

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
12.27.2012 , 12:59 AM | #16
@kustrin

I would say gearing up alts through Legacy is one of the major functions of the Legacy system. Whether moving mods around that way was initially intended or not, it's very clear that they like that functionality and all its advantages. By the time they did the 2nd world event, everybody knew of this function. What did BW do ? They introduced Legacy weapons as rewards, adding the ability of moving two types of items that couldn't be moved before, barrels and crystals.

Also, having decently geared up alts means more choices and easy ways of getting a group going. Sometimes we're just one short and all we need is 1 more, doesn't matter what role. We just reshuffle accordingly. Without having alts with good gear, bunch of raids would have been canceled

All this is made possible because of the state of end crafting as we have it now and because of the Legacy system.

Autorch's Avatar


Autorch
12.27.2012 , 08:04 AM | #17
Here's that other reply I said I'd make. BTW I also agree with the above poster on the ability to share gear across Legacy. That may be a bug that they decided to call a feature, but I think it should be a full-on feature for subscribers.

Some ideas to make crafting more relevant for those who don't have access to the highest raiding tier stuff:

Armstech:
Can make BOE mainhand/offhand combos that have a 2-piece set bonus to them.
Can make up to rating 136 (Columi) BOE gear for others.
Can make 2 rating 140 (Rakata) gear for self--weapon and offhand.

Synthweaving:
Can make BOE belt/bracers combos that have a 2-piece set bonus to them.
Can make up to rating 136 (Columi) BOE gear for others--all products.
Can make 2 rating 140 (Rakata) gear for self--belt and bracers (can already do this, no real change needed).

Armormech:
Can make BOE belt/bracers combos that have a 2-piece set bonus to them.
Can make up to rating 136 (Columi) BOE gear for others--all products.
Can make 2 rating 140 (Rakata) gear for self--belt and bracers (can already do this, no real change needed).
Can make the 23-26 series barrels, either learned from trainer or RE'd for.

Artifice:
Can make no-alignment-required relics ranging from 1-50.
Can make BOE relic pairs that have a 2-piece set bonus to them.
Can make up to rating 136 (Columi) BOE gear for others--all products.
Can make 2 rating 140 (Rakata) gear for self--relics (can already do this, no real change needed).
Can make the 23-26 series hilts and enhancements, either learned from trainer or RE'd for.
Can RE Cartel Market color crystals to learn schematics.

Cybertech:
Can make up to rating 136 (Columi) BOE gear for others.
Can make the 23-26 series mods and armorings, either learned from trainer or RE'd for.
[Cybertech already has grenades for self, as well as all the new droid and ship parts schematics, plus vehicles. No further changes are warranted IMO; if they simply got more of what they can already do, they'd be fine. ]

Biochem:
Can make up to rating 136 (Columi) BOE implants for others.
Can make implant pairs that have a set bonus.
[No further change. Already has the full suite of Rakata stims and adrenals they can make for self, as well as the Exo schematics for others.]

Admittedly these changes would put the Mission Support Vendors for modifications largely out of business, but so what. They're basically out of business anyway, as they're in the same boat as crafters--the game is handing you better stuff for free or very little play to get, so why would you blow dailies on those items. Those vendors need to start selling better poop or get another job.

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
12.27.2012 , 08:39 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Autorch View Post
Admittedly these changes would put the Mission Support Vendors for modifications largely out of business, but so what. They're basically out of business anyway, as they're in the same boat as crafters--the game is handing you better stuff for free or very little play to get, so why would you blow dailies on those items. Those vendors need to start selling better poop or get another job.
I agree with this. As each successive tier of gear was released, the gear on these vendors should have progressively improved (and not just updated relics, but all the armoring, barrels, hilts and other items). I also think they should have phased out Tionese commendations as part of the daily / weekly HM missions and progressed the commendations earned there as well.

If they had done so, and if crafters had been able to craft and sell progressively better gear as well, they would never have had to just hand out free gear to 50s as there would be lots of crafted and vendor stuff available at various quality levels / price points.

And just to come back to my thoughts on legacy gear and bound mods, while I still think it is a dumb system (though I too take advantage of it), it still needs some changes to balance it one way or the other.

Either they remove it entirely or they let us send anything bound to alts. Right now no hilts can be sent nor can any relics, implants or ear pieces. Not to mention only people who participated in the Rakghoul event can send barrels and crystals. This isn't balanced.

Maybe they add a new credit sink / legacy unlock which grants the ability to send bound items within a legacy. Maybe it becomes a separate credit sink like removing mods, such as X credits to change the bind from character to legacy.

At a minimum though, if they keep this in place as it is today, they need to add legacy weapons available to all and which include weapons with hilt slots.

Oh and for the alt-o-holics (of which I am one), I'd gladly give up the sending bound mods in legacy gear if I could get true legacy leveling gear that was decent looking, stat specific (not class specific), and auto leveled with my characters.

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
12.27.2012 , 09:28 AM | #19
I feel like we need these things in a grade between Tionese & Columi with each item requiring some form of grade 7 mat. All the schematics should be on the trainers. This is just kind of the minimum to keep crafting somehow relevant, up to level 55.

Armstech
1) a new tier of modable weapons with unique graphical visual effects like we're seeing in the cartel market
2) barrels through mod level 54
3) augments through level 54 & a grade 7 kit

Armormech/ Synth
1) level 50-55 crafted blue schamatics - so 1 new full 5 piece set of light/medium/heavy armor per profession
2) a fresh set of orange modables restricted to level 55 per weight & profession) - patterns to drop from UT crits/ or makeb mobs
3) augments through level 54 & a grade 7 kit

Artifice
1) BOE relics through Item level 54
2) modable offhand schematics
3) enhancements/ hilts through level 54
4) a new tier of modable weapons with unique graphical visual effects like we're seeing in the cartel market

Cyber
1) mods/ armors/ /ears/ droid parts through level 54
2) 120% grade 4 speeders "augmented thrusters" (and speeder training 4 on the class trainers)
3) a full set of paterns for the grade 7 ship parts.

Biochem
1) implants through level 54

But I wouldn't hold my breath.
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

Autorch's Avatar


Autorch
12.27.2012 , 10:11 AM | #20
Good point about the implants. I forgot Biochem does that. Edited my post to bring the overall pattern in line to be consistent with the other suggestions.