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Vanguard - Hard Mode Stats PLEASE HELP!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Vanguard - Hard Mode Stats PLEASE HELP!
 

RhinoUF's Avatar


RhinoUF
12.05.2012 , 06:09 PM | #1
Hi SWTOR community. I am looking for some assistance with stat allocation for CURRENT end game (HM Asatia) stats for a vanguard. I am hoping to find a complete bad-*** tank in a first-kill guild (or something close), who can clue me in on their stats. There is a billion sources for info (most of it OLD), spreadsheets, forums etc. I feel like the more I read the more confused I am.

I am gearing for max mitigation and not EHP.

In conclusion. My current stats are DEF: 15% Shield 57% Absorb 60%. This was after I changed out some absorb for defense based on all of my research so far (previously was at DEF 12%, Shield 59%, Abosrb 64%).

Can someone who has downed most of HM Asatia please list their working percentages for tanking?

THANK YOU SO MUCH IN ADVANCE.

Rhino-B

RhinoUF's Avatar


RhinoUF
12.05.2012 , 06:10 PM | #2
P.S. From everything I currently THINK I know... my defense is still low and should MOST LIKELY be closer to 20% fully buffed. That is if I am not totally completely lost.

steave's Avatar


steave
12.05.2012 , 08:01 PM | #3
I'm currently running this. I would have preferred getting the immunity and sturdiness enhancements instead, but I couldn't find a crafter nor find them at any of the black hole/campaign vendors, so I had to make do with what I could find.
It's not perfect, a WH defense relic combined with swapping a bunch of defense augments for absorb would probably give better overall stats, but since I don't like PVP that's just not something I've gotten around to acquiring yet.

Current progress: EC HM 4/4, TFB HM 5/5. Haven't had a chance at EC NiM since it was our other tanks turn in the rotation when we did that.

RhinoUF's Avatar


RhinoUF
12.05.2012 , 08:57 PM | #4
Wow, nice to see we have close to the same idea's on spec. I only took 2 in endurance because having the extra dps/threat boost from the 8% ion cell boost is monster for raid. (your prototype cylinders).

Also nice to see I am building my low defense percentage in the right direction.

I bought the Hazmat Defense relic to sub out absorb for defense. Looks like I just need to buy one more of those and aug it with defense I and should be MUCH closer to optimal.

So unless another UBER tank can school me up. I am going to "aim" for roughly. Defense 20% Shield 58% Absorb 57%.

Mozivicus's Avatar


Mozivicus
12.07.2012 , 01:22 PM | #5
Great topic. I'm surprised there's not more input from our fellow troopers

Justcae's Avatar


Justcae
12.08.2012 , 08:06 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by RhinoUF View Post
Hi SWTOR community. I am looking for some assistance with stat allocation for CURRENT end game (HM Asatia) stats for a vanguard. I am hoping to find a complete bad-*** tank in a first-kill guild (or something close), who can clue me in on their stats. There is a billion sources for info (most of it OLD), spreadsheets, forums etc. I feel like the more I read the more confused I am.

I am gearing for max mitigation and not EHP.

In conclusion. My current stats are DEF: 15% Shield 57% Absorb 60%. This was after I changed out some absorb for defense based on all of my research so far (previously was at DEF 12%, Shield 59%, Abosrb 64%).

Can someone who has downed most of HM Asatia please list their working percentages for tanking?

THANK YOU SO MUCH IN ADVANCE.

Rhino-B
Hi! I'm Cae!

I'm one of the main tanks for Never Tell Us the Odds on The Bastion. Currently we have all 8 man content down (EC NiM 4/4, TFB HM 5/5, etc.). I've done tanking elsewhere in other games, but that honestly doesn't matter here now does it?

First and foremost there was nothing wrong with your old build. It was the build I used for all of the HM content in the game. 12.5% Defense, 59'ish% Shield, 64% absorb is fully capable of doing all the hardmode content in game. That should leave you with roughly 24.5k hp. Completely and totally workable and as far as I was concerned and arguable am, the best setup for a Vanguard in current HM content.

1) Absorb and Defense fight with one another for total stat points in gear. What you pick up in one, you will lose in the other.

2) Shield is off by its lonesome as far as tanking and Vanguards are concerned. It would compete with accuracy if you were a Guardian, but we're not, so all Enhancements on gear will be shield.

3) Shield and Absorb relate to one another on a 1 : 1 basis. If you have 25% Shield, and 50% absorb, and are attacked 100 x's for 100 damage you can expect to absorb 1250 damage. If you have 50% Shield and 25% absorb with the same parameters you can expect to absorb 1250 damage. They relate directly with one another. Hooray!

4) Defense and Shield fight with one another in other ways. Defense (dodge) is rolled first. if you are subject to a melee/ranged attack and don't dodge, the attack hits you. Your shield chance is then rolled. If you shield... Hooray!

Unfortunately what this means is that Every point you place into defense, it hurts your shield and absorb.

15% Defense, and 60% shield does not mean that you will mitigate 75% of attacks. Instead it means you will mitigate 15% + (60% * .85) = 66% of all ranged/melee attacks.

5) Properly specializing up the SS tree leaves you with two pertinent abilities that will affect how you place your points.

a) "Shield Cycler" 2/2 - Increases the shield chance by 2%. In addition, shielding an attack has a 50% chance to generate 1 energy cell. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.

b) "Static Shield" - Increases the critical chance of Stockstrike and Explosive Surge by 16%. In addtion, shielding an attack has a 50% chance to finish the cooldown on Stockstrike. This effect cannot occur more than once every 4.5 seconds.

Hopefully you have all followed along with those points. My conclusions have always lead me to the fact that though defense pumping at the cost of may give me more mitigation overall, especially in spreadsheets, it actually hurts your character. Do not get me wrong, some defense is absolutely worth it. The extra mitigation vs Lower absorb, lower ammo, lower threat, lower damage absolutely has a balancing point. I do not find it to be anywhere near the much lauded 20%.

I currently run with the following.

Defense: 204 (13.67%)
Shield: 784 (59.42%)
Absorb: 579 (60.37%)
Endurance: 2396 (26,726 HP)

You will notice if you look closely that everything I've said is actually plain in my stats. Shield is roughly equal to the value of Defense and Absorb added together. This may vary for some depending how endurance heavy you choose to go with mods/enhancements.

I do, after pushing through EC NiM, believe in a slightly higher health pool vs total mitigation. When Kephess can hit you for close to 16.5k + 6.8 DoT on you 24k just doesn't cut it anymore. If believe you are in a guild where you are going to be pushing through NiM mode content in the close future my humble suggestion is that whatever you do choose for Absorb and Defense mods, go for the "B" variety. You can thank me with mail later. Doing this change will not hurt you at all in HM progression.

Best of luck with all your endeavours and please feel free to ask any questions that come to your mind.

Ps. Please Vanguards reading this post DO NOT PUT ACCURACY ON YOUR GEAR (tank spec). You gain nothing from it, and whoever told you has no understanding of your class or how the game actually functions.

_gideon's Avatar


_gideon
12.08.2012 , 08:26 AM | #7
Hi there

I tanked the world first Dread Guard and world third Kephess the Undying kills on 16-man. My stats with no buffs except ion cell were about 18.5%, 57.5%, 60.85%. With class buffs and a rakata stim (can't remember with exo atm) my health was about 24.9k in that gear. Healer feedback was positive.

There were still a few things I could have done to optimise the ratios but you've said you don't want detail

RhinoUF's Avatar


RhinoUF
12.10.2012 , 11:47 AM | #8
Thank you Cae & Gideon (sup bro!). VERY insightful and amazing to hear these set-ups from those that know best. I'll be re-posting it on my guild forums. Thank you for taking the time to post.

Rhino-B

MattFrontino's Avatar


MattFrontino
12.11.2012 , 08:34 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Justcae View Post
Hi! I'm Cae!

15% Defense, and 60% shield does not mean that you will mitigate 75% of attacks. Instead it means you will mitigate 15% + (60% * .85) = 66% of all ranged/melee attacks.


This logic is flawed. First off, you don't take into account that defense will rise more per point than absorb or shield. EDIT: If you are looking at the DR graph, realize the rate of change at 700 shield compared to the rate of change at 400 defense. The curves are closer in slope, and it's a complete dodge

You get so much more from 50 points of defense at the 100-200 range than absorb at the 600-700 range. Also, defense is a complete dodge. So factor in the amount of damage you still would take if you shielded the attack, and you'd find that defense is weighted higher than a shielding.

15%, 60%, 60%
1) 15% chance 100% damage
2) .85 * .6 = 51% chance 60% damage

15% + (51% * 60%) = 45.6% of damage mitigated

now lets up to 20%, 59%, 59%
1) 20% chance 100% damage
2) .80 * .59 = 47.2% chance 59% damage

20% + (47.2% * 59%) = 47.8% damage mitigated

Even if you need to go slightly lower to achieve 20% defense, it will still pay off

MOAR DEFENSE!!
Frontino - Vanguard
<Final Chapter>

Justcae's Avatar


Justcae
12.11.2012 , 03:17 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by MattFrontino View Post
This logic is flawed. First off, you don't take into account that defense will rise more per point than absorb or shield.
It doesn't. See: This is a diminishing return graph!

Quote: Originally Posted by MattFrontino View Post
You get so much more from 50 points of defense at the 100-200 range than absorb at the 600-700 range.
No one is stacking that little defense or that much absorb. And still, the curve is steeper for Absorb than Defense at those levels.

Quote: Originally Posted by MattFrontino View Post
Also, defense is a complete dodge. So factor in the amount of damage you still would take if you shielded the attack, and you'd find that defense is weighted higher than a shielding.
Yes, a complete mitigation does in fact mitigate more than a partial mitigation.

Quote: Originally Posted by MattFrontino View Post
15%, 60%, 60%
1) 15% chance 100% damage
2) .85 * .6 = 51% chance 60% damage

15% + (51% * 60%) = 45.6% of damage mitigated
Numbers completely achievable depending on how much you value Endurance in your current content. Very similar to my current numbers.

Quote: Originally Posted by MattFrontino View Post
now lets up to 20%, 59%, 59%
1) 20% chance 100% damage
2) .80 * .59 = 47.2% chance 59% damage

20% + (47.2% * 59%) = 47.8% damage mitigated
Where did the magical 5% Defense come from? Both Shield and Absorb have steeper curves than Defense. You cannot trade 2% combined S/A for 5% Defense. It is just a lie. Beyond that only 75% - 80% of attacks are actually defendable. So your (faked) 2.2% difference would be even narrower.

So in summary what do we know? Your reading comprehension = zero. That's okay with the school system of today I can't even blame you for not being able to read. What does slightly bother me though is that when you framed your numbers you used imaginary ones versus ones that function in reality. You see, all the numbers I posted are with ratings, which are hard capped by gear. Yours are just random percentages which are not achieved without "Special math". Never mind the fact that the rest of your statement is just erroneous in general. I don't ever question why newbie Vanguards have such a hard time figuring out what is what when there is just bad information put out everywhere.

You will see some slightly higher mitigations if you push Defense. I noted it in my first post. However you lose effectiveness of your spec. Beyond that the difference in damage is actually very very small. It will be in the area of 1% when you get done with armor, and the fact that not every attack is defendable (on some bosses none). If you do stack to 20% and love your character, good for you, enjoy the game. But my point of view stands, and it is effective.