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Which other tank goes well with a shadow?


niiall's Avatar


niiall
12.03.2012 , 03:46 AM | #1
Hi guysm My guild is mainly pvp and we have just started doing end game pve . We have a geared shadow tank, and Im wondering for ops that need 2 tanks, which other class compliments the shadow? Should it be a VG or a guardian, or is there any harm in running 2 shadows?

Ty guys
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Mautalent's Avatar


Mautalent
12.03.2012 , 04:02 AM | #2
I'd say bring the player not the class.
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Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
12.03.2012 , 04:45 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Mautalent View Post
I'd say bring the player not the class.
Best advice, however if it has to be either one or the other, while both tanks will be just as viable in all content in the game, Guardian with it's superior mitigation, save skills as well as good single target tanking might be the better choice. But do not forget that playing a good Guardian tank is commonly accepted as more difficult than playing Vanguard well.
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Ms_Sunlight's Avatar


Ms_Sunlight
12.03.2012 , 02:21 PM | #4
Either would be fine, seriously. Both Vanguard and Guardian also have increased DPS builds that are suitable for off-tanks but not main tanks, so if your main tank is a Shadow using one of them as an off-tank to squeeze a little more DPS out of the group works very well. (Trying to go hybrid with a Shadow is pure disaster!)
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tahoeWolverine's Avatar


tahoeWolverine
12.03.2012 , 02:53 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Ms_Sunlight View Post
Either would be fine, seriously. Both Vanguard and Guardian also have increased DPS builds that are suitable for off-tanks but not main tanks, so if your main tank is a Shadow using one of them as an off-tank to squeeze a little more DPS out of the group works very well. (Trying to go hybrid with a Shadow is pure disaster!)
Yep, having tanks that can switch to offtank is actually a very under-utilized trait. Obviously, having 2 full tanks is the default for most things, but I know that I can get my Powertech tank dps from 700-800 up to ~1000 with a few changes. With the amount that tanks are pushing into DR curves these days, it shouldn't be at all surprising that tanks sluff a bit of their tanky-ness for damage. Both PT/VG and Jugg/Guard can do this.
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
12.03.2012 , 04:14 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Ms_Sunlight View Post
Either would be fine, seriously. Both Vanguard and Guardian also have increased DPS builds that are suitable for off-tanks but not main tanks, so if your main tank is a Shadow using one of them as an off-tank to squeeze a little more DPS out of the group works very well. (Trying to go hybrid with a Shadow is pure disaster!)
This might work in KP and EV, but it definitely doesn't work in EC or TfB. Those instances are specifically designed such that you need 2 full tanks for pretty much every boss except for Minesweeper and Operator IX (the puzzle bosses), and, even then, you're pretty well served having 2 full tanks for each.
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crazyBE's Avatar


crazyBE
12.03.2012 , 05:35 PM | #7
Even though it doesn't really matter on any fight that much I'll suggest not taking 2 shadows if you can.
Better to have some diversity
That and it trains you healers better in seeing the difference between a shadow and a non shadow tank and learning to adapt to it.

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
12.03.2012 , 05:39 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Ms_Sunlight View Post
Either would be fine, seriously. Both Vanguard and Guardian also have increased DPS builds that are suitable for off-tanks but not main tanks, so if your main tank is a Shadow using one of them as an off-tank to squeeze a little more DPS out of the group works very well. (Trying to go hybrid with a Shadow is pure disaster!)
If you want someone to tank and DPS in the same spec, do not pick a guardian. Guardian tank DPS is seriously about half of what the other two tanks can do.
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cisme's Avatar


cisme
12.04.2012 , 09:53 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
Guardian with it's superior mitigation
You didn't make it clear so I hop you are referring to shadows and not vanguards because VGs have the best passive mitigation

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
12.04.2012 , 10:35 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by niiall View Post
Hi guysm My guild is mainly pvp and we have just started doing end game pve . We have a geared shadow tank, and Im wondering for ops that need 2 tanks, which other class compliments the shadow? Should it be a VG or a guardian, or is there any harm in running 2 shadows?

Ty guys
When I first started doing progression, I always ran with a guardian co-tank. (my main is a shadow tank) That worked out quite well, and having a tank with two leaps, a push, and heavy armor was very nice. More importantly, having a tank who could pop an on-demand 12 second god-mode in an enrage situation made the difference between a wipe and a clear on several occasions. So basically, all the things guardians are good at, this tank was good at.

Conversely, all the problems guardians have, he had. Threat was pathologically difficult to hold, particularly on some fights like Firebrand and Stormcaller. He also had some serious mitigation-related issues on other fights, most notably Nightmare Fabricator (armor debuffs suck).

I currently tank with another shadow, and again, there are some things about it that are really, really nice. When we tank Toth and Zorn, we separate them on the leap *instantaneously*. Literally, they jump together, and then Toth immediately turns and walks back into position (since we taunt him as we sprint past). Zorn never does anything other than turn to face the taunting tank and then turn back to the wall. When we tank Kephess, we alternate popping Resilience on the bleed. When we tank TfB and back up to the upper level to take the slime, we just pop Resilience and never take *any* unmitigated damage (aside from Scream) throughout the entire fight. We never, ever have threat problems (even tanking against our group's obscenely high DPS), and the logs show that we actually have an appreciable contribution to our group's net damage output.

But here again, the weaknesses of the shadow rear their head. Trenchcutters in particular are an obscenity. Shadow mitigation melts in the face of their frequent attacks, and so we end up cheesing that phase of the encounter more than other groups would need to. We also have to work a little harder than other tanks would to perform the tank swap on Firebrand and Stormcaller, since we can't just leap over.

Overall, I think that any tanking combination works, though ideally you would have two different classes to allow each to handle the situations they deal with best.
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