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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
11.30.2012 , 01:07 AM | #3401
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
I know no one wants to hear to be patient, but I honestly do think that's the course of action that makes the most sense.
Its the only course of action we have, I'll give you that. Obviously nothing we say or do is going to impress Bioware. Personally, even if they add this content tomorrow I doubt it would be enough to placate me or keep me subscribed at this point. They've brewed too much bad blood.

The fact this content wasn't there from day 1 is in and of itself inexcusable. The fact they've back-burner'ed it for a year and half only makes it worse. Their treatment (or lack there of) the issue really pushes it over the top for me.

The game is a nice diversion for me here for a few weeks while I take a break from GW2 but with the breathtakingly inept way they have handled this for a company that has spent years building a reputation of inclusion I can't see anything they could do that they will do that would make me forgive and forget.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
11.30.2012 , 01:31 AM | #3402
First Slagin, thank you for your apology. Passions can override anyone, especially when it comes to gamers and this content.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nozybidaj View Post
Its the only course of action we have, I'll give you that. Obviously nothing we say or do is going to impress Bioware. Personally, even if they add this content tomorrow I doubt it would be enough to placate me or keep me subscribed at this point. They've brewed too much bad blood.

The fact this content wasn't there from day 1 is in and of itself inexcusable. The fact they've back-burner'ed it for a year and half only makes it worse. Their treatment (or lack there of) the issue really pushes it over the top for me.

The game is a nice diversion for me here for a few weeks while I take a break from GW2 but with the breathtakingly inept way they have handled this for a company that has spent years building a reputation of inclusion I can't see anything they could do that they will do that would make me forgive and forget.
And therein lies the rub.

It's not just that they are being silent now.

It's not just the boilerplate answer that mods gave us for over a year regarding this. I am referring to the statement by Stephen Reid last September. Seriously, we sang happy birthday to it in the thread before Joveth came in and said a word. To us. In the privacy of our special corner.

It's not just that they didn't include the content from the get-go and didn't even offer it in Beta.

It's not just that they allowed assumptions about this content already being in the game being published by gaming sites.

It's not just the deleted Tweet.

It's not just former employees leaving and no one being public about bringing the content to the table since.

It's all of it at this point.

I'm not the type to say I'm going to boycott a company. Who knows; they might have games I really want down the line. However, I too have moved past the point of forgive and forget. And just like Nozy, even if they included this on the very next patch, I'd still want this weird silence addressed. Heck, even acknowledged the silence at all. I don't want the company or the game to fail, but I do think they need to own up to at the very least over 8 months of non communication since the Guild Summit.

To anyone that works for EA/BW, that might have a say so....if they read the thread...

Please ask The Powers That Be to let you speak. Just say, "Along with the new romance content, SGRs will be coming to The Old Republic! No ETA as of yet, but we apologize if any our silence caused any confusion."

I know, fat chance that any that has control over the flow of info reads this, but a Jedi always has to maintain hope. So does a good hearted sniper when you get down to it.

That would be a start. I will say I don't think it'll be enough. People really are done trying to play it their way, but the effort would be recognized to an extent.

But dang it EA/BW, at least try!!!

Slaign's Avatar


Slaign
11.30.2012 , 01:46 AM | #3403
You know what could be a fun, harmless way to show our continued anticipation of this content and disappointment in the silence? Peaceful, fun, in game, event like demonstrations.

Remember when City of Heroes shut down, and they had events to show support for the game? Not that those worked, but events like that always grab more media attention than the issues themselves.

We could have players with all the available lightsaber colors form rainbows, have players dress in a color chosen to represent the cause, and just generally sit around and have a peaceful demonstration. It would be a good thing for people to get together in game like that, and it would also cause onlookers to question what is going on, and raise awareness.

We could do something like this on every day a patch is released with no new information on SGRAs.

I'm not sure of it's effectiveness, but it would be something at least. I can't imagine BioWare trying to shut something like that down, it would look really bad for them.

Nozybidaj's Avatar


Nozybidaj
11.30.2012 , 02:00 AM | #3404
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
I'm not sure of it's effectiveness, but it would be something at least. I can't imagine BioWare trying to shut something like that down, it would look really bad for them.
Honestly something like that might have worked back in beta when there was a large community of folks that wanted this content. Of course most of those left before the game even went live though after it was made clear this content wasn't being added for launch. Out of the remaining folks I would guess most left around the time of the Guild Summit like I did.

Seems like only the die-hards and eternal optimists have stayed around this long with the occasional returning player like me. I don't know that we'd even get a big enough turn out for it to make an impression. Sadly BW did a pretty good job of killing off this section of the community.

That said, I'd support anything someone puts together.

Slaign's Avatar


Slaign
11.30.2012 , 02:04 AM | #3405
Quote: Originally Posted by Nozybidaj View Post
Honestly something like that might have worked back in beta when there was a large community of folks that wanted this content. Of course most of those left before the game even went live though after it was made clear this content wasn't being added for launch. Out of the remaining folks I would guess most left around the time of the Guild Summit like I did.

Seems like only the die-hards and eternal optimists have stayed around this long with the occasional returning player like me. I don't know that we'd even get a big enough turn out for it to make an impression. Sadly BW did a pretty good job of killing off this section of the community.

That said, I'd support anything someone puts together.
I think it would all be about getting the word out. If all we did was talk about it here, I think you're right. But if we contacted LGBT friendly guild officers to ask them to spread the word to their guilds, I think we could see a decent turn out.

A demonstration need not be comprised only of people who are personally invested in seeing this content. I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't have a personal stake in it that would lend their support to the principle.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
11.30.2012 , 02:35 AM | #3406
Quote: Originally Posted by Nozybidaj View Post
Honestly something like that might have worked back in beta when there was a large community of folks that wanted this content. Of course most of those left before the game even went live though after it was made clear this content wasn't being added for launch. Out of the remaining folks I would guess most left around the time of the Guild Summit like I did.
Amusingly enough, I left about a week and a half after the Guild Summit. A lot of it was MMO burn out, but part of it was also the handling of SGRs. I got discouraged; I didn't want to raid and I wasn't up for an alt. So I left.

I came back about a week before my birthday in September because I caught the bug for this game again. I'm having a lot of fun with my sniper now, but this current situation is very disheartening.

Palar's Avatar


Palar
11.30.2012 , 04:43 AM | #3407
I needed a laugh, so I went digging for a gem from a few months back.

Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post

♪♫ *cues music from Gilber & Sullivan's Mikado* ♪♫

Three little Sith from school are we
Strong in the dark side as can be
Filled to the brim with Sithish glee
Three little sith from school

Everything is a loaded gun
No one is safe for we care for none
Live is a war that has just begun
Three little sith from school

(Chorus)
Three little Sith who, dark and scary
Come from a dark side seminary
Freed from its genius tutelary
Three little Sith from school
Three little Sith from school

One little Sith likes Exar Kun
Two little Sith think EU is dumb
Three little Sith, that's the total sum
Three little Sith from school

From three little Sith pick one to slay
Two little sith remain, and they
Won't remain friends very long, they say
Three little Sith from school

(Chorus)
Three little Sith who, dark and scary
Come from a dark side seminary
Freed from its genius tutelary
Three little Sith from school
Three little Sith from school!
I'll let you decide if it's a re-run or a "best of", the thread's been running long enough for both.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.30.2012 , 06:26 AM | #3408
Quote:
Bioware and EA are fairly famous in the gaming industry for being inclusive of LGBT persons and for making content geared toward them. When Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR) launched, there was a rather public campaign by anti-LGBT groups to prevent the inclusion of same-sex romances in SWTOR - this was shot down by EA, who stated that they include LGBT content regardless of criticism.

However, during the Beta of SWTOR it was stated that there were "no gays in Star Wars" - a comment that was quickly removed and replaced with a general statement of intention to include same-sex content into SWTOR post-launch because Bioware realised that they have(had) a large LGBT fanbase. The latter comments were made by Stephen Reid, previous Community Manager (since replaced by Joveth Gonzalez).

In March of 2012, Daniel Erickson, a story writer, stated that same-sex content would be coming to SWTOR with other story content and that said story content would be introduced "this year" (assumed to be referring to 2012). This statement came only after months of pressure for post-launch statement, as Stephen Reid's comments had been removed with the removal of the beta forums, and equal months of silence.

Since Mr. Erickson's comments in March and despite constant questions of the whether or not the same-sex content is going to introduced into SWTOR, Bioware has not addressed the community in any manner. Yes, Mr. Gonzalez did post in the 'official' thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...postcount=1164, but this was no statement, did not address any actual questions (that is, if Mr. Erickson's comments were still valid) and has been the entirety of Bioware's engagement on this subject, as Mr. Erickson's comments from the Guild Summit were never transcribed in any official capacity to the SWTOR website.

I contact you on this matter because we are nearing the one year anniversary of SWTOR's release. It is disheartening that two companies who claim to be so inclusive have made the decision to not engage with their fanbase on this matter in any meaningful way and did, at some point during development, decide that LGBT persons should not be represented in one of their biggest endeavours.

In the thread linked we have discussed the trials of development post-launch and the affects of the move to Free2Play on post-launch development and how that might have hindered the actual recording and coding of same-sex content, but none of us have felt that that justifies Bioware's increasingly noticeable silence. This is particularly becoming a sore point as recently the "Hood Toggle" crowd (those who want to be able to switch between having their Jedi robe hoods up or down) were given an idea of the particular problems with coding and implementing hood toggles.

Thank you for your time and consideration and I apologise if the topic seems tedious.
I just sent that to the PA Report. I have no idea if anything will happen because of it, but it's worth a shot.

P.S. I love the fact that no one at Bioware reads this thread, means we can discuss stuff like this (^) without having to worry about the mods getting all uppity.

fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
11.30.2012 , 09:12 AM | #3409
I think the primary reason to take action is to start a dialogue. If there had been a dialogue I don't think many of us would have been quite as upset. I wouldn't have liked the exclusion of SGRs, but at least we'd be talking about it. At this time, there's none of that. And we've been put in quarantine and are ignored. A dialogue will be a start. Unfortunately we've not been able to start one here, the next step is calling in life lines. GLAAD would be very well suited to start a dialogue with EA.

We have questions, and they are important to this community. If this has been put on the back burner than I think we should know. It's rather discourteous to keep us in the dark this way.
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.30.2012 , 02:09 PM | #3410
I don't know much about GLAAD, Fabiyun, but they do have a contact page and a separate page for reporting defamation. I don't think this qualifies as defamation (unless erasure/denial is defamation?), but you did say they were initially interested in SWTOR and SGRA's.

I guess I'm trying to say I would contact them, but that it might be better if an actual LGBT person did so first...