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The strange behavior of the players in the flashpoints

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
The strange behavior of the players in the flashpoints

Nasja's Avatar


Nasja
11.22.2012 , 01:02 PM | #21
It's about rushing. They all want to rush and break the world record to do flashpoint x and they come in with the attitude -- how do I beat this quickest. Not, how do I get the most out of this. Symptoms are:

Not healing between fights
Spacebar smashing through text and yelling at others to smash that same spacebar -- if you don't, theyll quit
Not picking up common loot
Skipping npc's
Clicking on the group finder icon and queue -- not selecting their role. So you end up with for example tank specced shadows who are selected as dps or dps commando's who are specced as healer etc.

Thats about the things I can think of, there are probably more.

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
11.22.2012 , 01:13 PM | #22
you can clear something fast and still have fun. It's about maximizing your efficiency when online. I don't like to waste time. I also do not take unnecessary dmg to overtax the healer. If I were a healer in that situation I would simply not heal the person and let them die to learn from their mistake. Can always brez em or rez after the encounter. Point is when Im doing a FP I want to finish it as quickly as possible because I have experienced the story many times, I don't need anything from the run other than to complete my group finder daily, and I have other things to do before my online time is up. I don't want to waste a session in game by waiting for people.

Prettyevilish's Avatar


Prettyevilish
11.22.2012 , 10:11 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Beltane View Post
It's not always that easy. For example, if a group is ignoring basic boss mechanics and standing in things that hurt, so that they're overly taxing their healer, it's impossible to keep them all topped off all the time.

My sorc healer is well geared, and it's easy to keep the whole group topped off... unless things go bad with the tank or DPS, in which case one of them or more might have low health at the end of a boss fight. My priority is to keep everyone standing with the tank as the priority, not keeping everyone at 100% always. If it's a nasty fight but everyone's still alive at the end, I did my job. :P
Exactly. I can't control what the other members of the group do, or how intelligent they are (okay, I can control the tank, because he's my BF and we pretty much only run together now), so if one or more DPS stand in an AoE or get spit on, and at the same time the tank is taking unavoidable damage, the tank is going to be top priority. I will TRY to heal the DPS(es) once the tank is in safe range, but if they're still standing in AoE's (despite telling them not to after the first surprise) they might die before I can get off a heal for them. The tank is my top priority because if he dies I'm almost guaranteed to steal the aggro (and while I'm pretending to be a tank and healing myself, the DPS(es) will STILL be doing stupid things and acting like I should heal them).

This NEVER happens while running with experienced people who know not to stand in things. I usually keep everyone at near 100% health throughout the fight, which means we can run right along to the next mob without pausing. It's the lower level FPs that cause the problem, and I don't know if it's new players who don't know the mechanics or people running alts who forget they're not overgeared out the wazoo like they normally are, or a combination of both. But people do need to show some consideration to their healer and stop acting like healing between fights is part of the job description (if you want to take on that job for the challenge, far be it from me to stop you, but people need to be prepared to show courtesy to the other healers that don't (or can't in the case of commando medics who have limited power cells) want to).

Same goes for DPS pulling before the tank is ready. Stop it already!

And the same also goes for people who are stealthers in HMs and STILL haven't learned that boss mobs have a mechanic to allow them to see a person in stealth from further away than non-stealthed people (it keeps stealthers from skipping bosses). Have had more than one boss fight start before everyone was ready because someone stealthed up to the group and just stood there. By the time you get to an HM you need to know about these mechanics existing - and if you didn't before, you do now, so stop doing it!

Anyakaschala's Avatar


Anyakaschala
11.23.2012 , 04:21 PM | #24
well, with f2p here, there will be a lot of new people trying this game, it is for the people that aren't new and knowledgeable, and familiar with MMO's in general to help out. If you are CC'ing a target, call it out. If people don't understand, then it's there issue not yours. However, if we want this game to be successful, then we need to have patience with newer people.

Add that if you are reading this and are new, this isn't a bad thing. You just need to say you are new or have never been to the flashpoint you are in. If you have a question, ask. Most people will answer. Boss fights really don't require much explanation other than one or two sentences. And will go a long way to a much more enjoyable experience, and less repair bills

SharpG's Avatar


SharpG
11.24.2012 , 09:14 PM | #25
*Sigh* You people treat HM flashpoints like they are rocket science..

Level 50 group finder HM FPs are generally accepted as speed runs for the daily BH comms. I play all three roles and unless a group is absolutely undergeared and clueless I will chain pull because these HM FPs are ridiculously easy as ANY role. I always ask if we want to spacebar or not, I'm all for watching the cutscenes if someone hasn't seen it or wants to.

To the healers, do your job, you aren't anymore important or special then the other roles, grow up and heal the people, especially on the speed runs as some people don't have all the time in the world and just want their commendations for the day

To the tanks in this thread, get off your high horses, HM FPs can easily be done without you and frankly are only needed to make it even more easy then it already is

To the DPS. if your group is struggling through each pull then DO let the tank pull first. possibly encouraging him to speed it up a little if the healer can handle it

Like I said, I have plenty of experience in all three roles, it absolutely infuriates me when a tank thinks he is so important and that DPS are the scum of the earth, thinking he can take all the time in the world to do his job or when a healer doesn't heal somebody to "teach them a lesson" and wipes the whole group (or slows them down significantly) because they refused to heal.

TL;DR Grow up and do your "jobs", its a game and not everyone wants to spend hours in something that can be completed in 20 minutes (Of course there are exceptions like doing a FP to experience or "re-experience" the story, but let the group know so they arent sitting there staring at a blank screen waiting for you to watch the cutscenes)

/endrant

Brundhila's Avatar


Brundhila
11.25.2012 , 03:52 PM | #26
Im glad I ran across this thread because I thought I was taking crazy pills. I have been back 4 days and am seeing the exact same type of behaviour. Running into boss fights at low health, No one recupping between fights, no CC, running ahead, etc etc. I have had to leave groups or go crazy. One dps went into a fight at 10% health, died and then yelled at me for not healing him. For those of you that can speed run,thats great, but your not going to stress me out doing it. If you go in at low health and die please shut your ball washers and dont put it on the healer. Stupid player is stupid.
Wydoe, Operative

Druidregalia's Avatar


Druidregalia
11.25.2012 , 08:46 PM | #27
i think everyone forgets why the groupfinder gives daily BH comms in the first place. Its not because you deserve BH gear for doing tier 2 endgame content. It's because they wanted to keep the groupfinder populating and giving everyone a small amount of BH comms to do it would incentivise people who are long past needing columni or tionese gear to help out the new 50s and make it so they dont have to wait an hour to group.

I read this and the other thread on this forum(the one that focuses on skipping bosses) and I get this idea, that people who are well geared and are only there for the comms, which is great btw, have put this attitude in their heads that a new 50(with recruit gear or oranges filled with daily mods, welfare crafted epics etc) are somehow ruining their expeirence. Im all for speedruns when everyone's well geared(like my level 50 sorc healer). But when someone isnt well geared and actually is there not just for comms but for the columni gear, don't chain pull.

I mean one way or another don't waste time. If you've played the flashpoint before, dont hesitate to skip cutscenes(dont spam SKIP either like a 3 year old throwing a temper tantrum if others decide not to) If you can skip a group of trash do it. Its not terrible to skip bonus bosses either(there are a few that drop good gear, but most can be skipped without losing anything you cant live without) , but if someone wants to do it, build the community and just do the bossfight.

TLDR. Speedrunning's cool if everyone's ok with it and geared to actually do so. Otherwise just play the freaking flash point. .If you absolutely insist on doing speedruns every time, get a group of 3 well geared peeps together and then press the queue button. And also if you want to speed run, make sure you let ppl know at the beginning of the flashpoint, and not act like a dick when you find they are not skipping.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
11.25.2012 , 10:20 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Andrey_Siberya View Post
I have a lot of experience playing in WoW (more than 3 years), on russian server. I have tried all of the roles in the game. But now, with the renewal subscription SWTOR, and began to play a healer, I encountered a very strange behavior of the vast majority of players. For example: almost no one recovers his health, and resources, after the battle meditation, and other abilities. All, just immediately run to the next mob puck without looking at their own health.
In WoW, it is difficult to find a tank that it attacked the new pack of strong mobs with 50% health. In SVTOR is this a common thing. In WoW, a few more can be found of the tank, which will start the fight when healer out of mana, or the doctor is not there. In SVTOR it constantly. The fact that people have to help the tank, and beat his goal, I did not even mention.
What is this? I just had bad luck with groups? Or is it not a basic understanding of MMO game players? Or simply a cultural feature of english game worlds?
Please do not tell me to go back to WoW. I like it a lot SWTOR despite the large number of drawbacks. I just wanted to find out why.
Sorry for my bad English.
English is fine and, hopefully nobody tells you to get lose (would be complete dick move by them to do so) but there's two reasons why you're seeing this.

-Tank may be used to operative healers. Operative healers don't need the tank to stop between groups to get him back to full health. As long as he doesn't get down to, like, 10% health, the tank can just run from group to group and remain at full health.

and the biggie

-Group finder reward. The flashpoints reward tionese and columi gear. Group finder rewards tokens for black hole gear. Result of this is the groups you're getting in with may be WELL overgeared for the flashpoints and just want enough comms to buy something and reverse engineer everything for molecular stabilizers, then ship those off to crafters to get dread guard equivalent mods. So in their case, everything except the flashpoint's last conversation or boss is just an obstacle to their goal.

Also, consider that some people might just be morons. Was in a black talon run today where some ******* assassin tank sapped an enemy and complained that the mob got pulled. There was a droid in the mob and the tank's the one who pulled him.

Edit: one more thing. The problem the OP is having is a recent-ish development, or, at least, it's gotten worse. Was in a group with a resubscriber tank from a february. Totally competent, but didn't do ANY of the stuff TC's talking about.

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
11.26.2012 , 01:14 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Larry_Dallas View Post
but there's two reasons why you're seeing this.
I will add a third. Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors have the opposite game mechanic for energy/force that the rest of the classes have. While my smuggler builds up energy while waiting for a few seconds between fights, my Sentinel is losing it. My main is a smuggler healer, I have hated Sentinels in HMFP, it has nothing to do with them not healing between fights, everything to do with them leaping out of my range towards a elite instead of attacking the three weaks tearing me apart as I was casting a big heal on them. Sawbones are slow and even slower when 3 weaks are beating/shooting her in the back while she runs into range of the Sentinel. Get there and him and his Guardian buddy leap to the next pack leaving me now to deal with 6 weaks and still need to get a heal on him. I donít mind chain pulls, but if you are chain pulling and not healing, then at least do your job and kill the weaks. Donít make the healer do their job and yours too.

Still donít understand the need to only kill elites, but I do understand the chain pulling now as I am just as guilty of it as anyone else that plays a Sentinel. It is a total blast clearing an entire area in a few seconds. I do however still understand the healers perspective and I kill stuff in the right order to keep it off the healer. I also watch the healers health bar so that I can leap back to whatever is attacking the healer should dps miss something. I will also self heal and use defensive cooldowns and even stop and wait when the healer isnít completely overgeared.

I will also say something about CCís. I have gotten yelled at before for breaking CCís in a HMFP. Weaks are one, at most two hits on my Shadow. If you CC a weak I will kill it last in that area, but I will kill it before I force speed across the room. I am not going across the room and kill that stuff and then come back for one weak. CC elites if you want, but donít bother with weaks or strongs when the group is completely overgeared or donít yell at someone when they break it with a one hit force breech.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
11.26.2012 , 01:33 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by mikebevo View Post
I will add a third. Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors have the opposite game mechanic for energy/force that the rest of the classes have. While my smuggler builds up energy while waiting for a few seconds between fights, my Sentinel is losing it. My main is a smuggler healer, I have hated Sentinels in HMFP, it has nothing to do with them not healing between fights, everything to do with them leaping out of my range towards a elite instead of attacking the three weaks tearing me apart as I was casting a big heal on them. Sawbones are slow and even slower when 3 weaks are beating/shooting her in the back while she runs into range of the Sentinel. Get there and him and his Guardian buddy leap to the next pack leaving me now to deal with 6 weaks and still need to get a heal on him. I donít mind chain pulls, but if you are chain pulling and not healing, then at least do your job and kill the weaks. Donít make the healer do their job and yours too.

Still donít understand the need to only kill elites, but I do understand the chain pulling now as I am just as guilty of it as anyone else that plays a Sentinel. It is a total blast clearing an entire area in a few seconds. I do however still understand the healers perspective and I kill stuff in the right order to keep it off the healer. I also watch the healers health bar so that I can leap back to whatever is attacking the healer should dps miss something. I will also self heal and use defensive cooldowns and even stop and wait when the healer isnít completely overgeared.

I will also say something about CCís. I have gotten yelled at before for breaking CCís in a HMFP. Weaks are one, at most two hits on my Shadow. If you CC a weak I will kill it last in that area, but I will kill it before I force speed across the room. I am not going across the room and kill that stuff and then come back for one weak. CC elites if you want, but donít bother with weaks or strongs when the group is completely overgeared or donít yell at someone when they break it with a one hit force breech.
Good point about resource re and degeneration.

On the second point, there's not any mystery there, the tanks you're talking about are just bad. Any tank that relies exclusively on "pull" aggo is bad. Healer will overtake that in seconds. Only reason to rely on pull aggro is if he knows the DPS will drop the weaks before they aggro the healer (which he should be able to figure out after the first or second pull). If that doesn't happen, he needs to adjust immediately. If a mob aggros a dps, that might be the DPSes fault. If it aggros a healer, it's the tank's fault.