Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Suggestions for a Hybrid Build?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Suggestions for a Hybrid Build?

revansowns's Avatar


revansowns
11.20.2012 , 04:18 PM | #1
OK so I am looking to do a Taning/DPS hybrid build for my Shadow. I am a PVE-er, and I want to utilize my stealth abilities so I plan to go Infiltration as the DPS part. Does anyone have advice for me about how far up the Infiltration tree I should go before I start working on Kinetic Combat? I've looked for some answers but so far have not been able to find any.
The Darkslayer Legacy
Zhendai - Level 55 Jedi Guardian Valixe - Level 52 Sith Sorcerer Omin'it - Level 52 Sniper Valiantes - Level 50 Commando Thondurr - Level 50 Jedi Shadow Ikorath - Level 50 Sith Marauder Araxxo - Level 13 Powertech Tegldef -Level 36 Scoundrel

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
11.20.2012 , 04:23 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by revansowns View Post
I am a PVE-er
Hybrids don't work for PvE. Your survivability will be mediocre and your damage will be terrible. You're better off just going pure tank or pure DPS for PvE.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

revansowns's Avatar


revansowns
11.20.2012 , 05:05 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Hybrids don't work for PvE. Your survivability will be mediocre and your damage will be terrible. You're better off just going pure tank or pure DPS for PvE.
So why do they work in PVP?
The Darkslayer Legacy
Zhendai - Level 55 Jedi Guardian Valixe - Level 52 Sith Sorcerer Omin'it - Level 52 Sniper Valiantes - Level 50 Commando Thondurr - Level 50 Jedi Shadow Ikorath - Level 50 Sith Marauder Araxxo - Level 13 Powertech Tegldef -Level 36 Scoundrel

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
11.20.2012 , 07:21 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by revansowns View Post
So why do they work in PVP?
Hybrids can work in PvP because, in PvP, the additional utility and combination of decent damage with decent survivability (without either being particularly amazing) are actually useful. PvE is all about specialization: as a tank, you need to be able to take a lot of hits, but your damage isn't really all that important (beyond the ability to maintain threat); as a DPS, you need to be able to dish out a crapton of damage, but your survivability isn't really important (beyond not dying to unavoidable damage). PvP effectiveness can run the gamut between specialization and generalization, but I wouldn't recommend most of the hybrid specs you end up seeing out there. Pretty much the only ones that are useful are the 24/0/17 (for instant Force-Lift) and the 27/3/11 (for FiB as a ranged attack and Infiltration Tactics as solid PvP useful hit). In PvE, the advantages of those specs aren't really present: Infiltration Tactics on a tank is pretty much wasted, Force Lift isn't a real CC on a Shadow, FiB without DoTs is just a ranged attack that doesn't really make up for losing Slow Time, which bolsters your threat generation (since it's on a low CD, has good damage, and is high threat), mitigation (because of the 5% dam debuff), and healing (since it generates roughly half of your HS stacks).

PvP and PvE are completely different games. Just because a spec works in one has no relationship on that spec working in the other (just look at many of the PvP players that head into PvE with their PvP spec and insist that they're doing amazing damage because they can put out decent number in warzones).
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

jmsutton's Avatar


jmsutton
11.22.2012 , 12:30 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Hybrids don't work for PvE. Your survivability will be mediocre and your damage will be terrible. You're better off just going pure tank or pure DPS for PvE.
This is just not true. Maybe for Nightmare modes I guess. But I've run just about all content SM and HM in hybrid build and never had any problem carrying my weight. Hybrid can tank all HM FP's if you're appropriately geared (27/0/14 Hybrid) and in other versions of the kinetic hybrid I have finished SM and HM Ops with average DPS of 1100-1300 and spike DPS of 1600+. On HM KP I can easily sustain enough DPS to carry my weight. Admittedly haven't tried HM EC or TFB in the builds yet, because I am primarily a PvP player.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
11.22.2012 , 12:38 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by jmsutton View Post
Hybrid can tank all HM FP's if you're appropriately geared (27/0/14 Hybrid)
If by "appropriately geared" you mean "drastically overgeared". A hybrid isn't going to be an effective DPS or effective tank unless you're so greatly overgeared that spec doesn't matter. I could run as DPS on my Shadow tank for HM FPs and KP/EV but that doesn't mean it's a good spec for doing so. If you're running PvE as a hybrid, you're pretty much insisting that the people you run with carry you because you won't tank as well as a pure tank (including threat generation and DPS) or DPS as well as a pure DPS.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

jmsutton's Avatar


jmsutton
11.22.2012 , 10:49 AM | #7
I guess we have different definitions of being carried and 'good' spec. It's good enough to do your job at the level you need to do. None of the content requires that much in terms of actual output, most of the tough fights are coordination checks, not stat checks.

Pernicia's Avatar


Pernicia
11.22.2012 , 11:50 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by jmsutton View Post
I guess we have different definitions of being carried and 'good' spec. It's good enough to do your job at the level you need to do. None of the content requires that much in terms of actual output, most of the tough fights are coordination checks, not stat checks.
When it comes to level 50, Kit is absolutely correct. You have a role to fill and going halfway up 2 trees with different purposes will make you unable to adequately do either one. jm, you reference content that is nearly a year old and was not at all challenging when it was new; any decent guild could clear both EV and KP in about 2 hours total even back then. Take a quick look at HM TFB if you go in with squishy tanks and DPS pulling 1100-1200. On Writhing Horror the worse your DPS, the more damage the tank takes as his debuff stacks up and you'd be hard pressed to survive the burn phase at the end. If your DPS is too low on Dread Guards, you'll get 2 of the AoE lightnings on phase 1 and probably hit enrage. Also, squishy tanks will die during phase 3 due to not being able to be healed while still taking damage. If you can't get Operator IX's Data Cores down in time, you'll be overwhelmed by hard hitting adds and never even see phase 2. Kephiss and TFB are more of the same.

That being said, I assume from the OPs signature that he is still leveling his Shadow, and that is a different ballgame from what happens at level 50. It's more like PvP in that, as a melee class, you'll be taking the brunt of the damage from whatever you're fighting. It's not necessarily bad to take a mix of offensive and defensive talents in this situation, especially on something like a Shadow which is lightly armored. The problem with doing this on a Shadow specifically is that in order to get the full benefit of any tree, you really have to be using the associated Technique. I suppose that following the hybrid PvP build would not be terrible in this case, but probably still worse than going straight tank or straight DPS.
Pernici the Furious
<Night Stalkers>
Server: The Harbinger

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
11.22.2012 , 06:15 PM | #9
We once had an Infil spec shadow tank NiM KP in tank stance and full tank gear, but he was also our other tank in progression content and knew how to tank, and also our healers are amazing. In general Kitru is absolutely correct, and really the only reason we even did it then was because outside of Jarg/Sorno and Fabricator you don't really need an off tank in KP.


If the argument is that hybrids work in HM flashpoints and SM Ops, then yeah sure but so what?
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

jmsutton's Avatar


jmsutton
11.23.2012 , 06:07 PM | #10
Sure, far enough. But I would say 'so what?', a huge number of players only care about doing SM because they just want to see the content. So even if it's true that in NiM and some HM ops a hybrid couldn't pull weight I'd say 'so what?'

Not everyone is a hardcore progression raider.

That being said, I'd be interested in seeing some hard numbers from somewhere on what the highest DPS requirement in the game is to beat an encounter. I would be really surprised if it was too high for a talented hybrid player to put out. The game just really doesn't have ANY super difficult encounters once you figure the mechanics out and have every body's role down pat as to what happens when.

I mean, I can't do them all, but I'm just some schlub. But this is what I hear other 'hardcore' players repeat over and over again.