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Why not: Deception Manifesto


Andar's Avatar


Andar
11.22.2012 , 05:48 PM | #31
The OP is asking for equal balance among specs for equality, not because said operation is too difficult. But thanks for clearing that up for us.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
11.22.2012 , 05:52 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Tetsuos-despair View Post
I guess I can understand if you are missing something PVE wise.

I know this is offtopic so just ignore it if you'd rather not go into it. I do not PVE so I'm curious what the issue is with it, do people go by how much damage they caused to mobs in a parse or something?

I ask because I imagine PVE to be simply a preset routine that once learned is devoid of challenge, like playing through contra on the NES. For example, once you know what a particular boss is going to do you basically do the exact same thing as last time to beat it no?

Not trying to be insulting or anything I just don't see how playing against a non thinking program can offer any challenge beyond the first couple of runs?

Sorry, not attempting to jack this thread I've just always wondered what the appeal of continually repeating PVE content is, I've heard it's for gear but that gear is just to keep doing more PVE, I'm just curious as to the repetition and what makes that fun if indeed it even is?

First you beat it, then you master it, then you farm it, then you clamor for more while trying out crazy ideas in the meantime just to see if you can. That's why PVE people are constantly asking for more content. The best of the best conquer it quickly. The more middle of the road groups take a bit longer to conquer it. It's very satisfying beating a challenge with a group you've developed good team work with. I personally used to not see the appeal of PVP, and to a large extent I still don't. To each their own I suppose =)
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
11.23.2012 , 04:03 PM | #33
/signed

I would love to see +crit added somewhere in deception. The tree depends on it, and it creates an unfair advantage that more crit mods have to be used when other classes can just go power. Do I still do ok on my deception sin? Sure, but I could be doing even better if the playing field was level, and I could push my power higher as other classes that do top dps also do.

And Saber Conduit -- what a WASTE of 3 points! Fully agree, in this form this should be a single point talent. For 3 points it needs to proc twice as often (every 5 sec) or return double the force, 20. More often would create better sustained damage and more predictable force management, so would probably be better.

Also, deception needs a 30m ability of some sort, even if it does no damage. Like make the interrupt, Jolt, 30m. This may actually permit ranked teams to use deception over darkness hybrid assassins. They still don't because deception can be a liability due to having no ranged interrupt -- it simply makes the tree less viable.

Oh and just as a question for a dev if any stumble upon this thread: Why do sorcerers have +3% Accuracy high up in the HEALING tree, and assassins have none anywhere? Is this a remnant of early alpha and has never been rethought? I was in beta and I always remember sorcerers having that 3% accuracy as healers -- totally out of place. Move that 3% accuracy over to where it belongs, the other inquisitor class.
Sominette . Saminette
Pot5 > Harbinger

nosmos's Avatar


nosmos
11.23.2012 , 04:18 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Monterone View Post
/signed

I would love to see +crit added somewhere in deception. The tree depends on it, and it creates an unfair advantage that more crit mods have to be used when other classes can just go power. Do I still do ok on my deception sin? Sure, but I could be doing even better if the playing field was level, and I could push my power higher as other classes that do top dps also do.

And Saber Conduit -- what a WASTE of 3 points! Fully agree, in this form this should be a single point talent. For 3 points it needs to proc twice as often (every 5 sec) or return double the force, 20. More often would create better sustained damage and more predictable force management, so would probably be better.

Also, deception needs a 30m ability of some sort, even if it does no damage. Like make the interrupt, Jolt, 30m. This may actually permit ranked teams to use deception over darkness hybrid assassins. They still don't because deception can be a liability due to having no ranged interrupt -- it simply makes the tree less viable.

Oh and just as a question for a dev if any stumble upon this thread: Why do sorcerers have +3% Accuracy high up in the HEALING tree, and assassins have none anywhere? Is this a remnant of early alpha and has never been rethought? I was in beta and I always remember sorcerers having that 3% accuracy as healers -- totally out of place. Move that 3% accuracy over to where it belongs, the other inquisitor class.

Well said man. If anything what we need first are a couple talents. I would suggest at least Accuracy somewhere (surging charge stance maybe?) and a force crit chance increase. This would help A LOT with BiS'n ourselves. I have all 63's, except for my implants / earpieces. I recently had to take my power mods out and put back the black hole crit mods etc, simply because the crit rating everyone else needs - is subpar for us. We need HIGH crit for deception, but have nothing to help us with this. Why does carnage (a lot like deception) get an auto-crit force scream that hits just as hard as my disharge and maul...and it can be used every what..6 seconds or so? Where is our 'auto-crit' move?

On the rage trees, i think it is critical hits with vicious slash etc reduce the cooldown of smash - why not give us something like that with blackout? That would help A LOT for sustained damage.

First, please..hook us up with stat talents! Seriously, the other tank classes Jug and powertech, do they only have an endurance stat in their Tank tree? NO, they have crit / mainstat / etc...

Do the devs not see a disparity here?

EDIT: On the subject of Hazmat implants / earpieces...I notice one earpiece does have accuracy but it was 128 endurance and like 89 willpower...umm ok? The striker implants have ZERO accuracy, which means once i start getting those this week, I will have to start saving again to reverse engineer black hole stuff, spend lots of money transfering mods through legacy...so i can make some accuracy / crit or power enhancments....because the black hole ones we use have +57 on them.

Teh heck?
55 Assassin - 55 Sorc - 55 Jug - 55 Marauder - 55 Sniper
55 Operative - 55 merc - 55 Powertech

ElitehunterDS's Avatar


ElitehunterDS
11.23.2012 , 04:43 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Monterone View Post
/signed

I would love to see +crit added somewhere in deception. The tree depends on it, and it creates an unfair advantage that more crit mods have to be used when other classes can just go power.
Best result i saw are with only 71 Crit rating, on my earpiece, added with the crit from willpower and fully buffed it end up at 28,28% crit.

Wish the dev would see that Exploitive Strikes is currently bugged on sin and doesnt proc on charge crit like a shadow.

P.s. PVE point of view but its doing fine in pvp too.
Retiring from SWTOR August 2013

Sev'ra Level 55 Sith Assassin {Deception spec}
Tempest (Prophecy of the Five)

nosmos's Avatar


nosmos
11.23.2012 , 08:18 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by ElitehunterDS View Post
Best result i saw are with only 71 Crit rating, on my earpiece, added with the crit from willpower and fully buffed it end up at 28,28% crit.

Wish the dev would see that Exploitive Strikes is currently bugged on sin and doesnt proc on charge crit like a shadow.

P.s. PVE point of view but its doing fine in pvp too.
Dude 71 crit rating is not good for PVE operations. I notice a major difference from 33 percent crit to 37
55 Assassin - 55 Sorc - 55 Jug - 55 Marauder - 55 Sniper
55 Operative - 55 merc - 55 Powertech

Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
11.23.2012 , 09:52 PM | #37
Yeah I definitely like adding more crit rating on my sin. Still keeping it above 900 power (force) for PvP, but moving crit up every percentage point I notice an increase in dps.

I wouldn't dip below 900 power, but everything else I'm slowly remodding for crit.

Now imagine having a +3% crit talent or even more as some classes have... one could easily push power above 950 like other classes do and still have decent crit rating.
Sominette . Saminette
Pot5 > Harbinger

ElitehunterDS's Avatar


ElitehunterDS
11.24.2012 , 06:23 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by nosmos View Post
Dude 71 crit rating is not good for PVE operations. I notice a major difference from 33 percent crit to 37
Not from my many test and theorycrafting.
Retiring from SWTOR August 2013

Sev'ra Level 55 Sith Assassin {Deception spec}
Tempest (Prophecy of the Five)

nosmos's Avatar


nosmos
11.24.2012 , 02:12 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by ElitehunterDS View Post
Not from my many test and theorycrafting.
Guess i'm a little unsure how a 71 crit rating could pump out consistent enough big crit hits to sustain a good dps on the operation dummy and in operations themselves. Got any logs or anything?
55 Assassin - 55 Sorc - 55 Jug - 55 Marauder - 55 Sniper
55 Operative - 55 merc - 55 Powertech

Aaramis's Avatar


Aaramis
11.25.2012 , 12:40 PM | #40
Reduce the force cost of Voltaic / Clairvoyant by 1/3rd (allowing for better force management for PvE purposes; irrelevant for PvP);

Throw in an Accuracy ability somewhere in the tree - 3 points, 1% per point (solves stat management - mostly); or simply add it to another ability (i.e. Recirculation / Security Breach).

Change Surging Charge/Shadow Technique bonus from 3% AP per point to 10% - maxing out at 30% AP (ups dps a bit, which it should - currently Madness/Balance outparses Deception/Infil by 100dps or more on any prolonged fight- *and* they can self-heal. Very skewed).

Class fixed imo.