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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
11.22.2012 , 02:29 PM | #3251
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
We have been led to expect same-sex romance with companions we already know. And sc****** up CC to unlock it, when those could be invested elsewhere, IS Pay-to-Gay, because no one had to do anything like that for OGR. It was just there, part of the content with the companions one met along the way. I want the same thing for SGR. Anything less and I will turn around and walk away rather than accept more of a second-class experience than we have already been subjected to.
I've not interpreted the BW scriptures this way. They've wanted to do SGRs justice by not flipping a toggle and making them player sexual. Rewriting existing non romance able companions would seem like a big task not really leading to additional content. Heterosexual players could also have SGR companions and not romance them and experience a new companion with their own character and opinions. I don't see why they would rewrite existing companions. If the content had already been written, then why would they have adjusted it to the current companions and then later rewrite those to be inclusive? They've never said literally that the existing companions would be SGR capable and I very much doubt that they're going to do that, it just doesn't make sense. Adding new companions with a story update makes much more sense.

As for the Cartel Market, not all things are paid for by subs, isn't HK51 also free for subs? I'm not lvl 50 yet so I don't have it yet.
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

JediMB's Avatar


JediMB
11.22.2012 , 02:37 PM | #3252
I guess, maybe, the reason Makeb is being delayed is so they can wait and see how the transition to F2P affects their finances. That way they can determine whether or not they'd have to charge money from subscribers in order for new story content to continue to be viable.

That said, I would hope that the SGR content would be freely available to all regardless of if they buy the expansion or not, even if they do come in the same update.

EDIT: And HK-51 is free of subscribers, yes. The idea is basically that F2P players have to pay to unlock anything that isn't the basic story/path to level 50.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
You know, that is exactly what I was talking about. We may disagree on the subject, but we do so without calling each other names or scream and yell at another.
And on the Internet too. Isn't it zany?

Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
On public boards when I mentioned I was okay with the endings and didn't really miss anything, there were people telling me I could never ever be a "true" Mass Effect fan then. They did not allow any disconsent. That I found quite presumptuous.
In my own experience, the reversed was much more common from day one. Anyone daring to support the idea that BioWare "owed" the fans more than what was there was called childish, bratty, immature, etc..

I have no doubt that it's highly dependent on the demographic of specific public boards, but it just seemed worse in this direction. Above mentioned insults were usually the catch-all response to any and all legitimate and detailed criticism covering everything from the emotional impact of the lack of denouement to deconstructions of the plot or inconsistent game design.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
I read just last night (I didn't even know), that Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk left Bioware to retire. I have no idea whether there's any connection here, but one saying he lost passion for creating video games, after all this ruckus with the new DLC was over .... I find this timing rather odd. But maybe that's just me.
I'm under the impression that Muzyka and Zeschuk have been planning to retire ever since they decided to sell BioWare to EA. They probably just stayed on to oversee the transition and, perhaps, the wrap-up of the Mass Effect franchise. No disrespect intended toward them, but once EA "assumed direct control" of BioWare... the founders were more or less rendered redundant, and that's just the nature of the business.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Everyone should do what they want to get the content they want. That's more than fine with me. But don't claim I'm not a real fan if I disagree with you on some things and behave yourself in a way that makes it possible for other people to interact with you, be it other fellow gamers or writers, producers, and so on. I guess that's all I'm saying. And by "you" of course I did not mean you you... in case that was unclear.
Crystal clear and agreed on.

No one has the right to try to dictate whether or not another is a "true"/"real" fan. Just like with that idiotic "fake geek girl" thing, if I'm allowed to go on this very brief tangent. One's internal dedication and enthusiasm isn't for anyone else to judge.
The Morrowbringer Legacy The Red Eclipse (PvE) [EU]
Deep into that darkness peering, you reach out your hand and grasp what you are searching for.
Now ring the bells that sweep away the darkness; the bells that beckon tomorrow's dawn.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
11.22.2012 , 02:56 PM | #3253
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMB View Post
No one has the right to try to dictate whether or not another is a "true"/"real" fan. Just like with that idiotic "fake geek girl" thing, if I'm allowed to go on this very brief tangent. One's internal dedication and enthusiasm isn't for anyone else to judge.
AMEN!

I feel the same way about this content.

I want SGRAs because I like to play them, but also because everybody deserves them, it's awkward and non-2012-ish without them and Bioware is so freakin' good at them.

Win-win situation for everyone, now we just need to make clear to the BW folks that sooner is better than later.

Palar's Avatar


Palar
11.22.2012 , 02:59 PM | #3254
Quote: Originally Posted by fabiyun View Post
f the content had already been written, then why would they have adjusted it to the current companions and then later rewrite those to be inclusive? They've never said literally that the existing companions would be SGR capable and I very much doubt that they're going to do that, it just doesn't make sense. Adding new companions with a story update makes much more sense.
That's just another thing we can't get an answer on - they say they've "known from Day One" who it would be, provided "it makes sense" which may mean some Classes get new ones as the SGR option.

However, "we want to do it right"... plowing through to 50, then meeting some brand-new sidekick and racing through their story arc on just one planet (assuming it's in the Makeb patch)... I don't know, that doesn't seem like it'll be up to par with the existing standard.

"Everything's still on track, this year" - in the absence of any follow-up info, that's feeling more and more like "What we told you was true.. from a certain point of view." will be the gist of a Yellow post come February.

fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
11.22.2012 , 03:10 PM | #3255
Quote: Originally Posted by Palar View Post
That's just another thing we can't get an answer on - they say they've "known from Day One" who it would be, provided "it makes sense" which may mean some Classes get new ones as the SGR option.

However, "we want to do it right"... plowing through to 50, then meeting some brand-new sidekick and racing through their story arc on just one planet (assuming it's in the Makeb patch)... I don't know, that doesn't seem like it'll be up to par with the existing standard.

"Everything's still on track, this year" - in the absence of any follow-up info, that's feeling more and more like "What we told you was true.. from a certain point of view." will be the gist of a Yellow post come February.
Hence my earlier comment that I personally think that by this point in time they've been postponed indefinitely. I do believe what the dev said last year that they had written lots of content, that might even have included SGRs, but I'm not sure that we're ever going to see it, certainly not in the way it was written (now that F2P has come along, and the move from class story to the nice and vague avenger story) and also not without a riot from our part.
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

Palar's Avatar


Palar
11.22.2012 , 03:24 PM | #3256
I'd like to think they would have been honest about it and said something, were that the case....


Damned if I know.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
11.22.2012 , 03:48 PM | #3257
Quote: Originally Posted by Palar View Post
I'd like to think they would have been honest about it and said something, were that the case.... Damned if I know.
Yeah, we do not know, but whenever Makeb comes they will have to say something about story content, since, if I remember correctly, they always said Makeb would come with story content. And of course SGRA are story content.

Slaign's Avatar


Slaign
11.23.2012 , 12:52 AM | #3258
Here's the thing about the anger at BioWare's silence: Everyone seems to be clear about SGRAs being classified as story content. Yet, people are comparing the information we get to things like hood toggles, which are decidedly NOT story content.

Many of you seem so sure that BioWare is holding back on giving us information because of the homosexual angle, but I'm not so sure that's true. People in this thread are claiming discrimination based on the thin evidence of we haven't gotten the information we are looking for, and we also happen to be talking about homosexual content.

But let's be honest here, has BioWare EVER shown a history of being forthcoming about this type of content? How much more than "No new information" did people asking about HK-51 ever get prior to his imminent release? How much info would you expect to get out of them if you were asking about Makeb, unrelated to SGRAs? After the announcement of Cathar, how freely has BioWare discussed that? Aside from vague hints at it's existence, what kind of details have we gotten on improved space gameplay?

As far as I'm concerned, BioWare has followed a very consistent pattern of announce content, give no new information, talk about it once it's on the PTR. The only thing out of the ordinary here is the length of time we've been waiting, and as I pointed out, if the content is of the quality we all hope it is, that isn't so bizarre.

I think you guys need to be extremely careful about these very serious allegations of discriminatory behavior. I don't see any evidence to support such allegations, and the history of all the players involved indicates the opposite of discriminatory attitudes.

I'm very frustrated about the silence of BioWare on this issue, and the length of time we've gone without adequate communication. However, I see it as a whole issue of poor community service. I think the community team should be much more open with us in general, I don't think it's something special about our pet issue.

Being angry and disappointed the content we care so deeply about is taking so long to arrive with no end in sight is reasonable. Continuing to make apparent our level of desire for said content is appropriate. However, letting the dissatisfaction turn into hate, and lobbing unjust accusations is irresponsible.

You may force a reply from BioWare when you go and level an accusation of discrimination, but not only is that unfair, it's counter productive. Do you honestly want to leave these developers and anyone else looking on with the impression that dealing with our community will be met with such hostility if we're unsatisfied? Accusations of discrimination are an extremely serious thing. It's not unfathomable that the developers would start out doing something because they believe in it, but then stop because even the people they were trying to support made it too volatile.

Someone earlier pointed out that BioWare is one of the few game companies consistently generating this kind of content, and urged you all to remember who your friends are. That couldn't be more true.

stormdrakelord's Avatar


stormdrakelord
11.23.2012 , 01:39 AM | #3259
I think the problem is that they do not know how to develop them the way they want them to be.

Merrill's in DA2 was a step in the right direction, with a whole separate conversation line with a female Hawke at the start of a romance.

They want a complete different dialogue for S/S romance than the O/S romances, so it will be harder for them.
Han Solo: Great, kid. Don't get cocky.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
11.23.2012 , 01:51 AM | #3260
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
I'm very frustrated about the silence of BioWare on this issue, and the length of time we've gone without adequate communication. However, I see it as a whole issue of poor community service. I think the community team should be much more open with us in general, I don't think it's something special about our pet issue.
I agree. I was reading another thread in this part of the forum (and realized I mostly just come to this thread to read and maybe shouldn't be so exclusive) where people complained about the lack of info on additional chapters to come, or more class story content.

It's not just us, though of course it doesn't make it that much easier to wait.

Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
Someone earlier pointed out that BioWare is one of the few game companies consistently generating this kind of content, and urged you all to remember who your friends are. That couldn't be more true.
Yeah, that still is my biggest hope, and one major reason why I consider myself loyal to Bioware and prefer them over other game companies AND am willing to give them the benefit of doubt at this point.

But patience is a fickle thing and and since Bioware (unlike other companies - Bethesda, I'm looking at you) is so good at creating romance content that's engaging, embedded into the story and not just thrown to the sidelines, be it OGR or SGR, I do find it hard waiting. Really, really, increasingly so ....