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Mercenary Manifesto


Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.22.2012 , 01:38 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Lexlo View Post
I believe 5 stacks of Instant-Tracer Missiles is a bit much.


But, I'm not against 5 stacks of using Tracer Missile while running. (Channels like normal, but allows movement during channel time).
I see no mention of Tracer being uninterruptable. Without that, mercs are no better off than they are now.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.22.2012 , 01:46 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Lexlo View Post
I believe 5 stacks of Instant-Tracer Missiles is a bit much.


But, I'm not against 5 stacks of using Tracer Missile while running. (Channels like normal, but allows movement during channel time).
It would do no more damage than 5 normally casted Tracer Missiles would. It simply allows Mercs to use Tracer Missiles while they are pressured by opponents.

Merc's largest weakness is being interrupted (not just by interrupts, buy by knockbacks/leaps/CC/etc), and a brief period of being able to use casted abilities instantly would give Merc a tool with which to fight back and try to win a fight, rather than just run away

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.22.2012 , 02:11 AM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Nassik View Post
At this stage of the game I would argue that mercs are constantly under pressure (beings free kills). But that would likely change if we became more competitive.

Looking at the above example, let's play it out...

The sentinel Force leaps at you and begins his rotation. You pop Tech Override immediately and get off three Tracers (for the stack of five heat signatures). followed with an Unload and a power shot. If you're not dead yet and he's into his Master Strike, you can hit Heatseeker and hope it finishes him off before his master strike (uninterruptable) ends or you can pop jet boost and run. If he pursues, you're back to reliance on a cast ability. Fortunately, his Force leap is on cool down so you can breathe. You've gained enough range to get off a cast Tracer Missile. Perhaps that will finish him off.

What if you've been rooted or otherwise CCed, though? You've already popped your Tech Override and it's a long way from coming off its cool-down. You can't set up another stack of heat signatures because your Tracer is back to being cast and the sentinel is interrupting everything you've got. You watch the last of your health drain away and you find yourself in the respawn area. With all of the various CCs in SWTOR this is very likely to happen.

The above scenario is a 1v1 case, though, and those don't tend to be the norm in a war zone. That five charge Tech Override would let us burn into a single opponent as a starter but we'd never survive long enough to use it again. Add just one more opponent to the furball and you're likely dead before you finish your first rotation. In that case, you'd probably hit jet boost first to gain some space. After you've gained some range, you hit Tech Override and start attacking your first opponent. Once your first rotation is finished you're doomed. If Tracer Missile/ Power Shot were instant cast, though, you may still die, but not necessarily alone.

Modifying Tech Override to give us five instant casts provides us with an excellent opening rotation, but we're back to being dead meat until Tech Override comes off cool-down. If an encounter goes beyond a single rotation it will come down to survivability (something that mercs aren't known for). And conversely, other classes will only have to survive that first rotation before we become an easy kill.


An instant cast Tracer Missile/ Power Shot would allow mercs to keep others at range or at least enable us to fight our way out to range. It would be a steady and reliable heat signature builder that would allow us to kite. The fact that our heavy hitting abilities still require cast times prevents us from being over-powered.
i fully agree with this entire post.

5 instants is a band-aid fix for sure, but it is better than no fix at all.

do i support instant cast Tracer Missile / Power Shot? absolutely, i think it is the one change that would have the largest impact on bringing Merc DPS up to the level of other DPS classes.

but i think we may need to make small improvements, and compromises. i think this new Power Surge would be a step in the right direction for sure

Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.22.2012 , 02:12 AM | #74
Perhaps, but it is indeed a band aid. Silly when your original proposal is so easy to implement.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.22.2012 , 02:13 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by Nassik View Post
See previous page for my response to your example. I don't think a five-charge Tech Override is going to do the job.
my reply is the post above yours

i do agree with you, and would much prefer to see instant Tracer Missile / Power Shot than a band-aid, compromise fix. but in all honesty, something is better than the nothing we have now

Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.22.2012 , 02:19 AM | #76
I'm inclined to think it best to go for the whole hog, so to speak. Your proposed changes aren't game-breaking or unbalancing. A smaller step, while an improvement, may prevent later improvement. "Why do you need this? We already gave you that."

A five-charge Tech Override would be an improvement, but it would still leave us sub-par to other classes. We'd be competitive for a single rotation and then be easy kills for the rest of the encounter. With a five-charge Tech Override, though, the arguments of being over-powered with instant cast unload and such would start rolling in. If we could cast any of our harder-hitting abilities instantly people would start screaming that we're over-powered and calling for us to be nerfed.

Some people are set against the idea of a permanently instant cast Tracer Missile/ Power Shot. But isn't that better for balance than giving mercs the opportunity to instant cast any of our stronger abilities? Imagine this rotation...

Unload, Tech Override, Tracer Missile (three times), Rail Shot, Vent Heat, Fusion Missile, Unload, Heatseeker Missiles.

None of which can be interrupted. Vent heat keeps us going and since it's already an instant cast ability it doesn't use a charge of Tech Override. That rotation could dish out 8662-9514 unstoppable damage (That includes the bonus 1944 DoT from Fusion Missile). That would destroy a sizable chunk of player HP. That full rotation, if used, would take us right to the edge of our heat, but we would be instruments of pure carnage.

How fast would players start calling for a nerf? We could be devastating (If we don't die before finishing the rotation) from the edges of a fight. With proper target selection and LoS, we could finish off targets with relative ease. Mercs would have a glorious run for a short while and then feel the weight of the nerf bat.


It's safer and better-balanced to make Tracer Missile and Power Shot instant cast.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.22.2012 , 08:52 AM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Nassik View Post
I'm inclined to think it best to go for the whole hog, so to speak. Your proposed changes aren't game-breaking or unbalancing. A smaller step, while an improvement, may prevent later improvement. "Why do you need this? We already gave you that."

A five-charge Tech Override would be an improvement, but it would still leave us sub-par to other classes. We'd be competitive for a single rotation and then be easy kills for the rest of the encounter. With a five-charge Tech Override, though, the arguments of being over-powered with instant cast unload and such would start rolling in. If we could cast any of our harder-hitting abilities instantly people would start screaming that we're over-powered and calling for us to be nerfed.

Some people are set against the idea of a permanently instant cast Tracer Missile/ Power Shot. But isn't that better for balance than giving mercs the opportunity to instant cast any of our stronger abilities? Imagine this rotation...

Unload, Tech Override, Tracer Missile (three times), Rail Shot, Vent Heat, Fusion Missile, Unload, Heatseeker Missiles.

None of which can be interrupted. Vent heat keeps us going and since it's already an instant cast ability it doesn't use a charge of Tech Override. That rotation could dish out 8662-9514 unstoppable damage (That includes the bonus 1944 DoT from Fusion Missile). That would destroy a sizable chunk of player HP. That full rotation, if used, would take us right to the edge of our heat, but we would be instruments of pure carnage.

How fast would players start calling for a nerf? We could be devastating (If we don't die before finishing the rotation) from the edges of a fight. With proper target selection and LoS, we could finish off targets with relative ease. Mercs would have a glorious run for a short while and then feel the weight of the nerf bat.


It's safer and better-balanced to make Tracer Missile and Power Shot instant cast.
True. I also just realized that a Power Surge like that would be usable by a Combat Medic Merc. THAT would create imbalance; 5 instant rapid scans every 60 seconds would definitely increase healing output significantly, which is not my intention.

We really only want Tracer Missile and Power Shot to be able to be used instantly. There would be no change in use when not under pressure (cast time = GCD), and survivability would go up because we could actually defend ourselves when the time came, rather than just hope to run away.

Unload is Channeled tho, so would still be able to be interrupted, even with Power Surge which only affects abilities with cast times.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
11.22.2012 , 10:43 AM | #78
The imbalance you're worried about for combat medics already exists. It's called Supercharged Cells/Gas Cylinder.


Tech Override SHOULD provide a buff that lasts longer than one cast. Imo it should just straight up last 12 seconds. Keep the cooldown the same (though the talent that reduces the CD of Reserve Powercell should also lower the cooldown of Tech Override instead of Concussion Charge). Concussion Charge should be changed to an instant ability period.


The reason I keep asking for hold the line is 8 seconds of interrupt/leap immunity via Hold the Line is enough time to get off your entire setup, from range if you cast it preemptively. Put it high in the tree so the medics can't get it. One full setup every 30 seconds guaranteed is one cycle in two, and you can do your best to go uninterrupted in the meantime by staying at range. You really aren't under pressure ALL the time. Especially if you let the furball develop and then come into engagement range. Full Auto/Unload should be uninterruptable with Curtain of Fire up though I agree.

I know you guys REALLY want instant cast Tracer/Grav/PS/CB, and I can see a talent higher in the assault tree to grant instant cast PS. It fits with the supposed mobility of the spec and PS is subject to defensive rolls, though the ability to run and gun would very possibly be OP (Knockback as soon as you're leapt to and then run/gun and they're stuck trying to catch you for 15s). I'd also change the endurance talent to one which lets PS/CB guarantee a proc from plasma cell just like Flame Burst/Ion Pulse works for Vanguards. But arsenal is a ranged turret. It should stay a ranged turret. Run/Gun with tracer missile really would take things to the opposite direction. Also there really is a regen argument. Specifically, an instant cast Grav Round at 9 ammo puts you into mid tier regen. A 1.5s cast time Grav Round at 9 ammo will regen to 10 ammo before the cast goes off and you end up back at 8 ammo which is still top tier regen. It's a small thing but it really adds up over the course of a fight in PVE where you need to be able to stand and cast for sustained periods of time.

Do you guys play melee? It would do wonders for your ability to deal with them on commando/merc because you'd have a better appreciation of what good ranged do with their abilities to deal with melee, and what in general can frustrate melee, then take that lesson back. The frustration for me comes from the simple lack of tools to do those things which melee find so very annoying. Roots, on demand snares, AoE mezzes, these are the things that can win games.

A burst with less of a setup wouldn't hurt, but actually that's what assault does quite while. It's just after having to rely on Power Shots turns you into a ghetto gunnery for the next 6 seconds.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

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LeonHawkeye's Avatar


LeonHawkeye
11.22.2012 , 10:59 AM | #79
Bump for justice. If you (Bioware) have not yet noticed the overwhelming discontent with the Commando/Mercenary class you failed to properly balance and adequately develop, here is a link to another warm and fuzzy thread with over 28,000 views and 640 replies: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...541411&page=17

Fix this horribly dysfunctional class for competitive, Ranked PvP.

Luctari's Avatar


Luctari
11.22.2012 , 04:53 PM | #80
I recently got back into my Mercenary. These changes look reasonable and balanced

/signed
Y'all ready know!