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Enough of exploiting ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Enough of exploiting ranked warzones

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.16.2012 , 08:25 PM | #81
ok. how bad are ranked queues right now? the top guild on my server has recently recruited about 3 teams worth of players (including their sister guild). I tried to get an 8v8 going. not enough interest. they came back at me to get the 8v8 going (tired of an empty Q!). so me and about 5 of my guildies plus those of them that are willing to do it just to do *something* - we STILL CAN'T GET ENOUGH PPL FOR 2 TEAMS. (the 16th man decided he didn't wanna do it, and it all fell apart). ****! I know this is a PvE server, but this is getting ridiculous.

and the server population isn't the problem. the server was full. multiple instances of fleet. oye.
Krackerjack/Deinon
JC/Harb

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.16.2012 , 08:30 PM | #82
Ouch, can't tell you how often that happens to me Foxy. :-( Dark day for the Empire.

<.< not sure how that's on topic, but I feel like replying cause I'm bored and it's fun to call you Foxy.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
11.18.2012 , 02:13 PM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by NamikazeNaruto View Post
So on my server it has gotten to the point where other ranked teams refuse to face the guild I am in ranked warzones. Now not queueing is one thing... but these guys queue in 2 sets of eight. The purpose of this is for them to face each other. Ok, that's all fine and dandy too, but if either of these two teams happen to be in a queue against us, they don't even play the game. None of them even enter the ranked warzones. So the past 3 days my teammates have had the majority of our games be empty ranked warzones. We just stand there for the entire game because there is noone to fight. At the end, we get ranked comms but pretty much no rating whatsoever. The other teams don't seem to care if they lose points as long as they can avoid facing us. Bioware, isn't there some way you can fix this?
If your guild is "unbeatable" then could you blame someone for not being a mazochist? There are many complaints both in ranked and normal. My personal view would be that it might be more fun to increase the randomness more. By that I mean,
1. Normal zones only for solo queuers or groups of two (dangerous a bit the latter, as might end up with 4 healers).
2. Ranked zones only for groups of 4 and with some minimum valor that corresponds to bm gear at least.
3. Lockout durations to frequent quitters.

And of course cross-server queues, at least for ranked, but seems more difficult to implement than the above.

stringcat's Avatar


stringcat
11.18.2012 , 02:31 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
. If you don't wanna get hurt, don't get in the ring.
I'm confused. They're doing just what you're saying --- they're not getting in the ring. That's exactly what you're QQing about. So what's your problem?
Valiya Illegal Test Kitchen The Bastion

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
11.18.2012 , 08:12 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by stringcat View Post
I'm confused. They're doing just what you're saying --- they're not getting in the ring. That's exactly what you're QQing about. So what's your problem?
different definition of "the ring." just like different definitions of "competitive." and to be really riské, just like different definitions of "pro-life."
Krackerjack/Deinon
JC/Harb

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.19.2012 , 02:11 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by stringcat View Post
I'm confused. They're doing just what you're saying --- they're not getting in the ring. That's exactly what you're QQing about. So what's your problem?
Ranked is a place for 8 man premades to run against each other. You enter the queue, fight whichever team is in there, then get your rewards. That's "Getting in the RIng."

What they're doing is more akin to the neighborhood kids hijacking your state's official baseball field for a pick up game of catch.

Now to tone is down a notch (cause ranked isn't major league baseball), I think it's fine for people to use the "field" if they can't find a legit opponent and want to get some matches in, but if a legit team is in there waiting for opponents, it's pretty crappy to dodge them (exploiting the system).

stringcat's Avatar


stringcat
11.19.2012 , 03:13 AM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Ranked is a place for 8 man premades to run against each other. You enter the queue, fight whichever team is in there, then get your rewards. That's "Getting in the RIng."

What they're doing is more akin to the neighborhood kids hijacking your state's official baseball field for a pick up game of catch.

Now to tone is down a notch (cause ranked isn't major league baseball), I think it's fine for people to use the "field" if they can't find a legit opponent and want to get some matches in, but if a legit team is in there waiting for opponents, it's pretty crappy to dodge them (exploiting the system).
Eh. They're using the system for what they want to do (competitive matches). I don't see that as an "exploit." Fighting against a team of friends that you know is about the same strength as your team is still a "legit" match. Arguably, it is in fact more legitimate by virtue of actually being competitive. Ranked wasn't intended to be a game in which the server-best team stomped everyone else -- there's a matchmaking element intended to balance teams. No one has fun doing uneven stomps. (Or at least, I hope the server-best team isn't lame enough to enjoy that.) That element is broken, because there aren't enough ranked teams. Your team is not intended by BW to engage in such uneven matches. Arranged matches fix what's broken about the ranked system.

I wouldn't queue dodge -- it's a bit rude, because the other team has to wait out the match or lose ranking, which some people care about. Also, my epeen demands that I face bruising losses stoically. But it's hardly an "exploit."
Valiya Illegal Test Kitchen The Bastion

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.19.2012 , 03:30 AM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by stringcat View Post
Eh. They're using the system for what they want to do (competitive matches). I don't see that as an "exploit." Fighting against a team of friends that you know is about the same strength as your team is still a "legit" match. Arguably, it is in fact more legitimate by virtue of actually being competitive. Ranked wasn't intended to be a game in which the server-best team stomped everyone else -- there's a matchmaking element intended to balance teams. No one has fun doing uneven stomps. (Or at least, I hope the server-best team isn't lame enough to enjoy that.) That element is broken, because there aren't enough ranked teams. Your team is not intended by BW to engage in such uneven matches. Arranged matches fix what's broken about the ranked system.

I wouldn't queue dodge -- it's a bit rude, because the other team has to wait out the match or lose ranking, which some people care about. Also, my epeen demands that I face bruising losses stoically. But it's hardly an "exploit."
If the system intended for you to be able to pick your opponents, it would have an option to form 16 people and hit "Start costum match." The system is designed that 8 people queue up, then get placed against the next 8 people in the queue (there is no matchmaking/balance system implemented.)

If you form 2 teams of 8, then leave queue every time it pops until you both get a pop at the same time, you are not using the system as intended. If you're not using it as intended, then you're exploiting it.

(Same applies to two 4 man premades in normal who drop queue until they both get a pop, and try to get on the same side. It's exploiting a broken system to pick your own 8 man in non-ranked.)

stringcat's Avatar


stringcat
11.19.2012 , 03:37 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
If the system intended for you to be able to pick your opponents, it would have an option to form 16 people and hit "Start costum match." The system is designed that 8 people queue up, then get placed against the next 8 people in the queue (there is no matchmaking/balance system implemented.)
There is a matchmaking/balance system "implemented", it just doesn't work because there aren't enough ranked groups. It's supposed to match similarly-ranked teams together. The fact that you don't know that, well, that just says it all re: the fact that it's broken.

Quote:
If you form 2 teams of 8, then leave queue every time it pops until you both get a pop at the same time, you are not using the system as intended. If you're not using it as intended, then you're exploiting it.
The system is "intended" to form competitive matches. It is intended for people to have fun. Working as intended.

I get that you think that other teams should line up to be smashed; I just don't get why you think that anyone besides yourself (and your team) should care.

I agree that they should fix it so that the matches ends early if it's empty of one team. But I don't think a technical fix is what you're asking for. (Not sure what you ARE asking for, other than other teams lining up to be smashed).
Valiya Illegal Test Kitchen The Bastion

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.19.2012 , 04:07 AM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by stringcat View Post
There is a matchmaking/balance system "implemented", it just doesn't work because there aren't enough ranked groups. It's supposed to match similarly-ranked teams together. The fact that you don't know that, well, that just says it all re: the fact that it's broken.



The system is "intended" to form competitive matches. It is intended for people to have fun. Working as intended.

I get that you think that other teams should line up to be smashed; I just don't get why you think that anyone besides yourself (and your team) should care.
Patch 1.3 Notes:

•Pre-Season One Team Ranked Warzones are now available! Teams of 8 level 50 players can use the "Queue Team Ranked" button in the Warzone queue window to queue for a Ranked Warzone match.
•Ranked Warzones reward Ranked Warzone Commendations.
•Teams receive their Team Rating after participating in 10 Ranked Warzone matches. This rating is adjusted at the end of every Team Ranked Warzone match based on win or loss and the ratings of all other matched players.
•Leaving a Ranked Warzone before it ends counts as a loss. Declining an invitation once a match is made counts as a loss.
•Players in the queue for a Ranked Warzone can queue for a normal Warzone at the same time. Entering a normal Warzone does not remove players from the Ranked Warzone queue. If a Ranked Warzone match is found while a player is in a normal Warzone, the match is reserved until the player finishes the normal Warzone, and other players in the reserved match will not be asked to join normal Warzones

No Mention of a matchmaking system based on anything.

PvP in Game Update 1.2

Goes into what they -want- to do with ranked, which includes a matchmaking system (not unlike what I've been promoting for non-ranked). Of course, 1.2 pulled the PvP update about 16 hours before the actual update. In 1.3 there is no mention of how much of the system was implemented.

Game update 1.3

Quote: Originally Posted by Update1.3
"Ranked Warzones allow for top-level competitive play for our PvP fans. Join Ranked Warzones as part of a team of eight level 50 players, and earn recognition and rewards!"
Then I found this little gem. Look at that. It says Top-level competitive play. Not balanced matches, not even competitive matchs.. Top-Level Competitive matches. So the system -is- not intended for people to play against their friends. It's not intended for two teams to ignore others in the queue and fight each other.

If you are using Ranked, cool... but if a Top-Level Team is in the queue you either fight them, or you stop queuing. Anything else, exploit.