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BW: FIX DPS Operatives! Statistics out of 100 played WZs inside!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW: FIX DPS Operatives! Statistics out of 100 played WZs inside!!

Missandei's Avatar


Missandei
11.17.2012 , 06:04 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by tatatan View Post
Let me explain to you again:
.............
I still love my Lethality Op, it is best solo class i played. I can solo any Daily content, including Blackhole Torvix H4, i can do 'Old Enemies' Heroics (lord Raxus) on Belsavis in 3 minutes from quest pickup to quest delivery. But - *solo* PVE stuff and this is MMO where i need to party up for PVP. This is where this Ops tree fails.
Lets conclude: As an Operative you have the choice:
- to be the OverPowered Healer in PvP and best healer in PvE,
- to find yourself among the top DPS in WZ results table as Concealment
- to be OverPowered in PvE as Lethality.

Yeah. There is a much to QQ about.
Really broken class. Definitely unplayable at all.
And the free-of-charge anytime respec doesnt help at all.
Missandei Shadow ...yet shadows can kill. And oft-times a very small man can cast a very large shadow.

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
11.17.2012 , 11:14 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Missandei View Post
Lets conclude: As an Operative you have the choice:
- to be the OverPowered Healer in PvP and best healer in PvE,
- to find yourself among the top DPS in WZ results table as Concealment
- to be OverPowered in PvE as Lethality.

Yeah. There is a much to QQ about.
Really broken class. Definitely unplayable at all.
And the free-of-charge anytime respec doesnt help at all.
add1: Medic is fine, nothing overpowered
add2: you're clearly out of picture (id get better DMG number as Lethality in WZ than Conceal - if i poison everyone - and in doing so screw all my teammates CC
add3: you're clearly out of picture again, on border of trolling

From what you say now, it's very clear you never played the class, or at least not seriously, ergo, any serious discussion is out of equation with you. Go Troll somewhere else. This is serious thread about Class having problems.
From what you said so far, it looks, you probably have problesm with Ops in WZs? Probably weak play, Concealments always target the weakest.

Have a nice day.

TyrellJonez's Avatar


TyrellJonez
11.17.2012 , 01:00 PM | #33
To the OP:

Your an operative. A Space Ninja. Ninjas don't fight in the front line. They wait in the shadows for the right time to strike and kill with high efficiency.

I'm leveling an operative. I do just fine keeping my space ninja mentality. I jump in the fight when i see a target at 50% and murder it before it can do anything, then proceed to dot (if lethality) or choose the next lowest target and kill it. I flashbang people i know have used their CC breaker and focus a target with someone, then clean up.

It sounds like you don't like that as a play mechanic. Then by all means play a jugg. It sounds like your playstyle. I'm not ragging on you. Don't buy a donkey if you wanna win a horse race. Werd.
If they don't wanna see the hood in me, be satisfied when you see the good in me

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
11.17.2012 , 01:54 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by TyrellJonez View Post
To the OP:

Your an operative. A Space Ninja. Ninjas don't fight in the front line. They wait in the shadows for the right time to strike and kill with high efficiency.

I'm leveling an operative.
I know you mean well, but its not a L2P or don't pick a class for a role you don't want to fill issue with the OP. Your reasoning for the first part I quoted would make sense if we had that "high efficeincy" As of 1.2 we don't. Since our burst has been nerfed so many times we instead have to kill an opponent by controlling them either through CC or DCDs from 100%-0. Its not efficient and it takes a long time, too long for it to be viable in rateds.

As for the second part I know Operatives seem fine in lowbies, but like DPS (non bubble stun) Sorcs that is where they shine, it only gets worse once you hit 50. And while in optimzed EWH gear you will be okay in regs simply because you can take Off nodes from BM geared guards players, you bring nothing useful to any higher level of play. You can't kill someone who plays at your level, but a better class, fast enough to take the node before their help arrives. As for finishing off people below 50% at the main fight, Rail shot does it better on a much shorter CD, as does Ravage, Smash, Snipe, ect ect. Oh and those classes actually have the tools to survive in a large scale fight (PTs excluded)

TyrellJonez's Avatar


TyrellJonez
11.17.2012 , 02:10 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Asunasan View Post
I know you mean well, but its not a L2P or don't pick a class for a role you don't want to fill issue with the OP. Your reasoning for the first part I quoted would make sense if we had that "high efficeincy" As of 1.2 we don't. Since our burst has been nerfed so many times we instead have to kill an opponent by controlling them either through CC or DCDs from 100%-0. Its not efficient and it takes a long time, too long for it to be viable in rateds.

As for the second part I know Operatives seem fine in lowbies, but like DPS (non bubble stun) Sorcs that is where they shine, it only gets worse once you hit 50. And while in optimzed EWH gear you will be okay in regs simply because you can take Off nodes from BM geared guards players, you bring nothing useful to any higher level of play. You can't kill someone who plays at your level, but a better class, fast enough to take the node before their help arrives. As for finishing off people below 50% at the main fight, Rail shot does it better on a much shorter CD, as does Ravage, Smash, Snipe, ect ect. Oh and those classes actually have the tools to survive in a large scale fight (PTs excluded)
Yeah i never meant it as a L2p issue. It wasn't meant to offend so thats cool =)

Yeah lowbie pvp is nothing like the 50 bracket and i could be wrong. My first 50 was a Merc and i remember the good ole days and the current bad times being a merc and i sympathethic. There will always be a class that does SOMETHING better than you no matter what class you play. I just look for what i CAN do better than other classes and push that to its full extent. I made my full Elimator merc a healer simply because it has more success but do to gearing stats and set bonuses i made it a pyro/bodyguard hybrid and it works for me. I don't do as much damage or healing as a dedicated class, but for RWZ i have fun. and thats the name of the game.

I'm not sure for survivability but There is an OP on Jung Ma named Lursa who can stand toe to toe with my WH geared Assassin and its always a close fight. Fairly positive he/she is lethality but i've seen it done. You do have survivability, but its on a timed instance, when your time is up you have to withdraw or face defeat.

As for controlling your opponent, why is that a bad thing? I control my opponents AND the large fights on my assassin. It makes for great fun =)
If they don't wanna see the hood in me, be satisfied when you see the good in me

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
11.17.2012 , 03:31 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by TyrellJonez View Post
Yeah i never meant it as a L2p issue. It wasn't meant to offend so thats cool =)

I'm not sure for survivability but There is an OP on Jung Ma named Lursa who can stand toe to toe with my WH geared Assassin and its always a close fight. Fairly positive he/she is lethality but i've seen it done. You do have survivability, but its on a timed instance, when your time is up you have to withdraw or face defeat.

As for controlling your opponent, why is that a bad thing? I control my opponents AND the large fights on my assassin. It makes for great fun =)
First off i'm glad we can mostly agree. As for the first part I quoted though yeah, best OPS can stand toe to toe with good Assassins. The problem is thats in a 1v1 and the Assassin (even infultration spec) brings more to a 3v3 or larger fight than an operative does. if the Assassin and Op preform equally in 1v1s but the Op is much worse in large fights we have a problem.

As for controlling your opponents I didn't mean it was a bad thing AT ALL. Its a great thing. The problem is unless I can control their keyboard and voice chat they can call for help and even as an optimized Op you aren't going to kill them and cap the node before help arrives. Meaning you don't have a high enough conversion rate of taking Off nodes to be viable in high level play (and an Assasin will be just as succesful as you at the role), and you aren't as useful as any class including a dps merc in a 3v3+ encounter. Your control doesn't lend itself well to fights bigger than a 2v2 with stealth and Our of combat requirements.

Missandei's Avatar


Missandei
11.18.2012 , 05:28 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by tatatan View Post
add1: Medic is fine, nothing overpowered
lol.. so when 3-4 ppl are chasing the Medic and he just running laughin at them it is considered as «fine». Ok. Fine.

Quote: Originally Posted by tatatan View Post
add2: you're clearly out of picture (id get better DMG number as Lethality in WZ than Conceal - if i poison everyone - and in doing so screw all my teammates CC
My statement was based on the picture provided IN THIS THREAD. lol.
You are not reading your own thread? lol. fine.


Quote: Originally Posted by tatatan View Post
add3: you're clearly out of picture again, on border of trolling
Lol.. It is YOU whom i quoted. It was you who are saying that with lethality you can easilly SOLO all the H4 dailies..
Nothing owerpovered. Worked as intended. lol.. Fine..
So who is trolling?

Quote: Originally Posted by tatatan View Post
From what you say now, it's very clear you never played the class, or at least not seriously, ergo, any serious discussion is out of equation with you. Go Troll somewhere else. This is serious thread about Class having problems.
From what you said so far, it looks, you probably have problesm with Ops in WZs? Probably weak play, Concealments always target the weakest.

Have a nice day.
Lol.. Personal insults? lol.. so childish.
Yes, i am the worst player in all the swtor. Feel better?
And now just be honest with yourself and admit the simple truth:
Noone is playing Lethality in PvP becasue other 2 trees ARE WAY TO OP.
Why to be on par with other classes when you can choose different tree and be OWERPOWERED?
lol..
Missandei Shadow ...yet shadows can kill. And oft-times a very small man can cast a very large shadow.

deanth's Avatar


deanth
11.18.2012 , 10:04 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Missandei View Post
lol.. so when 3-4 ppl are chasing the Medic and he just running laughin at them it is considered as «fine». Ok. Fine.
Those 3-4 ppl need to l2p

Quote: Originally Posted by Missandei View Post
My statement was based on the picture provided IN THIS THREAD. lol.
You are not reading your own thread? lol. fine.
Any dps can pull large numbers in wz


Quote: Originally Posted by Missandei View Post
Lol.. It is YOU whom i quoted. It was you who are saying that with lethality you can easilly SOLO all the H4 dailies..
Nothing owerpovered. Worked as intended. lol.. Fine..
So who is trolling?
pve =/= pvp

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
11.18.2012 , 10:53 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Technohic View Post
I am going to say I think it would be very hard to buff damage operatives with their ccurrent stealth and lockdown type playstyle. They either need to make resolve more effective first/with that, or change operatives to be lest about stun timing and more about burst and restealthing.
Just to clarify... it's overpowered if a concealment restealths and bursts... but not overpowered when sins/shadows do it.

It's not overpowered when sins/shadows can use their Knockdown skill while out of stealth.

It's not overpowered that Tankasin hybrids can have 82% + or - 3% damage reduction for 15 seconds (Not factoring in Saber Ward)

It's not overpowered that sins/shadows have force shroud which defends against Force/Tech damage by 100%. While concealments only have defense against tech, kinetic and energy damage. What's the population of Glowstick users to IA's again? like 50:1 ratio? For those that missed the point here: Glowstick users do Force and energy damage.

Right cause bubble sorcs aren't overpowered at all right now...

4 bubble stuns = 100% resolve

then they root you

run off heal to full HP

rinse and repeat.

And you have the audacity to complain about our stunlocks?

Define Irony: Bubble stun - 3 second duration does not break on damage. Concealment Knockdown was 3 seconds (Overpowered and nerf'd to 1.5 sec) Give us our KD back and we might be talking about something here.

All of the above is completely ignoring the fact IA's have broken mechanics which Bioware is to stupid to see or address or is deliberately ignoring.

To be fair though, I'd give up a 2 second duration on our stunlock to have more damage.

Ahebish's Avatar


Ahebish
11.18.2012 , 11:12 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Missandei View Post
Lies...
Nearly in at least once every 5-6 games i stumble upon this invisible annoyances that you call DPS operatives..
Yeah - ToFN.

But the hard truth about operatives is that that not a DPS tree is weak, but Heal tree is too OP...
Everyone knows that healer Operatives are immortal beasts.
Tune down the Opness of Healtree and you will find more DPS operatives in WZ
I sincerely hope you aren't being classist and don't discount BH's/Troopers/Sorcs/Sages out of that OP'd healer genre.

Because that's just what they are.

I came across a trooper healer in a wz earlier today... 2-3 people beating on him his HP never went below 1/2. I would say I was one of them attacking the trooper but I'm a concealment spec'd DPS'er so my DPS doesn't count which is why I said 2-3 people instead of 3-4.