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BW: FIX DPS Operatives! Statistics out of 100 played WZs inside!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW: FIX DPS Operatives! Statistics out of 100 played WZs inside!!

Swanea's Avatar


Swanea
11.16.2012 , 06:12 AM | #21
I like how people post that under rare and extreme circumstances, an OP dps tops the dps charts. Terrible commandos can do that too.

Im in mostly champion (lol) gear. I got into a game with a bunch of wh guys against of scrub 50s. I got spam healed, never died. I topped damage.
Obviously we need to nerf Ops.

Im not saying conceal dps is terrible (well, sustained isn't great...), but our overall utility is just so meh. Sure, we can lock one target pretty well. But even if that's a healer, why not bring another lolsmash instead? One smash can do our opener on 5 people at once. And they don't need to wait 9 and than 1:30 to do it twice more. We can mez a number of people at once. Thank goodness there is no AoE or dots out.
Swanea Stormrider

WAR - WoW - LotRO - SWG
Internecion - Apex - FotR - EE/BoT/SWoT

LordRahlik's Avatar


LordRahlik
11.16.2012 , 06:20 AM | #22
I really agree.

Chain-stunning, super high dps, multiple vanish possibilies.

The operative/smuggler-counterpart DPS specs needs to be looked at really hard. A huge nerf is needed.
Societies in decline tend not to innovate. I just wish we had cellphones to report quests. Guess light speed tech and cell phone tech are mutually exclusive.
I know this image is supposed to be an insult, but it's not.
Two similar games and yet SW:ToR is so much better.

Masarko's Avatar


Masarko
11.16.2012 , 06:43 AM | #23
People who are against operatives are playing sorcs and solo defending nodes

We all know theyre scary the 3 first seconds after they pop out, then they poke you...

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
11.16.2012 , 09:46 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
How about you read the post you're attacking. Then read what it was quoting and replying to.
I did not attack anyone - firstly you, agreed with the post from missandei, which is on border of ridiculousness, then you say (cite) "Operatives have so many CCs and escapes ..." which is about same funny.
Let me tell you, as Lethality, I have 2 CC (4sec stun 4m debilitate - knife attack) and 10m 8sec stun flashbang grenade, is this 'so many CC'?? Escapes, - i have 'hide' ability on 3min cooldown, easily broken by an AoE. Ridiculous
Concealment has same stuns, only have better 'hide' cooldown and one more hiding ability. Otherwise nothing. I dunno where people still gather info about Operatives?? On QQ posts on forums? Btw where/when did you see QQ post about stealthy Operatives??
BW need to address this.
Lethality is R.I.P. and Concealment Ops is close to it.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
11.16.2012 , 10:26 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by tatatan View Post
Let me tell you, as Lethality, I have 2 CC (4sec stun 4m debilitate - knife attack) and 10m 8sec stun flashbang grenade, is this 'so many CC'?? Escapes, - i have 'hide' ability on 3min cooldown, easily broken by an AoE.
Sleep dart fallen off your quickbar?

Thats 1 cc that can screw with anyone not too close to their team.

One that can cripple a group at a distance while your team takes on one at a time or gets on with something else. And a straightforward stun.

Being stealthed at the start allows use of Sleep Dart and you've already escaped while still hindering an enemy.

The in-combat stealth is the other escape.

So yeah, that is a fair bit, you would like to say it's not?

So what did I say:

Quote:
Operatives have so many CCs and escapes its disgustingly useful for staying alive as a healer in a WZ or just controlling the enemy team.
When I referred to mercs:

Quote:
Everyone and their dog knows mercs are at the bottom of the wz usefulness list but you still find every type being played.

Bodyguard is ok but its not amazingly more useful than Pyro and Pyro is only a bit better than Arsenal. Ultimately they all have the same crap 2 tools to mess with other players which is the core issue with them.
I was not referring to the class but the class distribution which is much flatter because there IS no shining light in that tunnel.

You made a thread complaining about the stacking of operatives in certain branches, they are stacked in the healing branch because, yes the healing branch plus all the CC and escapes is entirely the best healing class in the game for pvp.


If you understood that then you'll note I agree that not enough operatives play DPS.

But I see it the other way round.

I don't think the DPS trees are crap, I think the healing tree is just so much more powerful in the WZ.

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
11.17.2012 , 01:25 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
Sleep dart fallen off your quickbar?

Thats 1 cc that can screw with anyone not too close to their team.

One that can cripple a group at a distance while your team takes on one at a time or gets on with something else. And a straightforward stun.

Being stealthed at the start allows use of Sleep Dart and you've already escaped while still hindering an enemy.

The in-combat stealth is the other escape.

So yeah, that is a fair bit, you would like to say it's not?

So what did I say:



When I referred to mercs:



I was not referring to the class but the class distribution which is much flatter because there IS no shining light in that tunnel.

You made a thread complaining about the stacking of operatives in certain branches, they are stacked in the healing branch because, yes the healing branch plus all the CC and escapes is entirely the best healing class in the game for pvp.


If you understood that then you'll note I agree that not enough operatives play DPS.

But I see it the other way round.

I don't think the DPS trees are crap, I think the healing tree is just so much more powerful in the WZ.
Dear sir,
let me explain it to you
you're mixing everything together. At my post, i stated that Medics are fine, Snipers are fine. I said also Lethality need rework, i also said, Concealment needs some boost (debatable) and since i did not play it extensively, i'm not suggesting anything, contrary to you, who knows, apparently the class from 'top to bottom'.

You mentioned Mercs, so it is like if you'd be mixing Arsenal and Pyrotech together. You probably never played Operative, did you?
Lethality - due to relying on the DoTs the Flasbang is no big deal, since DoTs break it. (one CC minus). Debilitate is OK (just one stun). Sleep Dart (you almost make it sound like OP CC) is very situational. You cant be in fight, target cant be in fight and is usable only from stealth.
!And since Lethality does not have any boosts in its tree to stealth technique, it is easily spotted even for the 'nonstealth' classes (laughable), which renders the Sleep dart again even more unreliable.
Concealment has due to 'real' Stealth and shorter reusable times to enter Stealth, much better use of it.
This thread i started is just 'cry for help' for BW developers to do something with Lethality tree, which is not good for teamplay.
I merely stated Concealment would appreciate some boost too - in comparison with other stealth class - assassins.
If out of 800 players, noone is Lethality specced, does it ring bell to you? Looks like not, since you're probably deaf.
I played Lethality from game start as main character, until recently, i know every odds and end of that spec. Great for solo play, yes, but this is MMO right, so i just merely ask this to be adjusted so we're accepted to groups!!

This is my last reply to you, since it is hard to reason with someone, who doesn't know the class specs and yet pose like expert. (how do you call such ppl?) .......

Blasphemerr's Avatar


Blasphemerr
11.17.2012 , 01:31 AM | #27
Man, ToFN has a lot of snipers!
Something pretentious.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
11.17.2012 , 04:15 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by tatatan View Post
This is my last reply to you, since it is hard to reason with someone, who doesn't know the class specs and yet pose like expert. (how do you call such ppl?) .......
Indeed, you put a DoT on someone, deliberately spec for extra long DoT time then say it messes with your CC in a WZ therefore the CC is not useable for your spec.

A CC will also interrupt an uninterruptable attack even if its broken by a dot straight away.

It's the same for all DoT classes, sorcs, assassins, pyro anything, CC before the fight then attack who you want.

Their DoTs are as long as yours AND if extra long DoTs are gimping you in a WZ it's free to respec these days so you don't take the talent which doubles their length. It's not as if having a weak DoT for 30 seconds is going to really kill someone in the burst happy world of pvp.

Yes, sleep dart is situational, so is all CC but it's excellent when it comes to solo defense and slowing down enemy players, especially key ones without actually having to fight them.


Also your statistics lie which is a different thing.

Out of 800 players (who may be players counted multiple times) you count for 100, you don't exist?

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
11.17.2012 , 05:13 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Blasphemerr View Post
Man, ToFN has a lot of snipers!
I know, this is why i said in my 1st post in this thread, that snipers are fine, i just been looking after them in the statistic for reference, out of curiosity.

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
11.17.2012 , 05:47 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
Indeed, you put a DoT on someone, deliberately spec for extra long DoT time then say it messes with your CC in a WZ therefore the CC is not useable for your spec.

A CC will also interrupt an uninterruptable attack even if its broken by a dot straight away.

It's the same for all DoT classes, sorcs, assassins, pyro anything, CC before the fight then attack who you want.
Let me explain to you again:
The one, Biggest hit of Lethality (Cull) rely on the presence of 2 DoT *present*. The DoTs are curable. So either you spec to 'lingering toxins' or your DoTs are cured and Cull is unusable. You dont know the mechanics of the class apparently. Yes, there is many classes using DoTs but, their 'big hitters' are not as relying on them. So what? You either spec for for it, then you break CC of your team, or you dont and you dont have any burst damage. What would you choose?
The Lingering toxins - actually was originally 'Fix' of BW for curability of our DoTs. So if someone cure it, your Cull is not for just for laughs. But in team play, this is fail. Next thing is that energy maintenance also rely on DoT crittical ticks. So - wha you do to have egnergy for Cull? You must poison as many as you can from opposing team.... but wait you break the CCs of you teammates So what you choose(having energy to do DPS or breaking CCs)? In PUG play, if you poison everyone, it might be OK, if you face coordinated team and you poison everyone - you're kicked of your team.
So eiter you dont have energy to do what you're supposed to do - DPS - or what good you are there for?
I repeat myself - roll op, choose lethality, play, then ./discuss.
Whole Lethality tree need rework - i made my suggestion.
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
Their DoTs are as long as yours AND if extra long DoTs are gimping you in a WZ it's free to respec these days so you don't take the talent which doubles their length. It's not as if having a weak DoT for 30 seconds is going to really kill someone in the burst happy world of pvp.
Explained above - you *must* have it or you can *not* use Cull (well you can but it's just energy waste).

Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
Yes, sleep dart is situational, so is all CC but it's excellent when it comes to solo defense and slowing down enemy players, especially key ones without actually having to fight them.
Explained in previous post - as Lethality is not true or full Stealth class, this is very situational. Many times people just see me, even if i'm stealthed. So it is not reliable tool. If your team can not rely on your stealth ability, then you're no good node guard.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
Also your statistics lie which is a different thing.

Out of 800 players (who may be players counted multiple times) you count for 100, you don't exist?
[/QUOTE]
This really is almost funny. You know what? I made my statistics playing my Juggernaut tank. I'm already sick being ruled out of team play for playing the class i wanted. Yes. I rerolled another class. As everyone playing Lethality did. They play heals, few Concealment.
With Juggernaut, mediocre outfitted (mixed Battlemaster with -already- 3 WH parts) i'm much much bigger asset to my team, than my valor 89 Lethality op with BiS Armor and elite weapons.

Please, open your eyes, have a look on the team you queue with. Try to spot Lethality Operative. You wont. You'll see lot Operative Medics, some Operative Concealment, but none Lethality.
I made this statistics accurate. These numbers were not just pulled from my clever hat. I really watched the people i play with. Please do your own statistic. I really would be glad if some other people did. I just take plain pen and paper.

I still love my Lethality Op, it is best solo class i played. I can solo any Daily content, including Blackhole Torvix H4, i can do 'Old Enemies' Heroics (lord Raxus) on Belsavis in 3 minutes from quest pickup to quest delivery. But - *solo* PVE stuff and this is MMO where i need to party up for PVP. This is where this Ops tree fails.