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P2W is bad?


filipesantana's Avatar


filipesantana
11.13.2012 , 02:58 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Fregger View Post
Uhm ?!?!
Well a day has 24 h for everybody, right. But the question is how much time do you have available for playing. As a student I had 12h+ now I have 2h at maximum. But now I have money to compensate. That's fair, so let me buy the stuff. Btw, I did enough skill and gear grinding to last for three lifetimes.

OR

Kill gear progression for pvp. Stupid idea anyways. Softcore kiddies playstyle, bah. In the old times 14/18 I ...
ok i wont even reply because this topic is behond retarded..there is no doubt p2w wont ever..EVER make into another mmo because companies learn that p2w gives money at the start but then kills the game because:

people pay and get geared way to fast..then get bored and leave

or

people refuse to pay and see those who do it getting better gear.

Chosmetics ONLY tough thrive is a mmo market, people actualy pay to be "different" without any advantage other then looks..and that WONT kill the game...giving them more money in the long run.

MMOS survive due to the grind...it was allways like this it will allways be like this..designers try to find way s to hook people and make them have objectives to keep playing...hooked...often.

Drudenfusz's Avatar


Drudenfusz
11.13.2012 , 03:20 AM | #12
Pay to win is a terrible idea! But what BioWare could do, is reducing the grind to get top gear.
My Old Republic Warring is Magic
Gwenya - The Drudenfusz Legacy, Jedi Shadow on Jar'Kai Sword
When you play the game of PvP, you win or you die.
English version <- SWTOR Wiki -> German version

Fregger's Avatar


Fregger
11.13.2012 , 03:35 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by filipesantana View Post
MMOS survive due to the grind...it was allways like this it will allways be like this..designers try to find way s to hook people and make them have objectives to keep playing...hooked...often.
No.
Grind never motivated me. There are other motivations. Like being at the top of the bounty board, ranks/titles, player recognition, content, events world pvp et cetera.

Your perception = diablo/wow-generation.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." ^^

Labradoraki's Avatar


Labradoraki
11.13.2012 , 04:28 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
Let me think...

Still thinking....

Wait for it....

NO.

Invalidate this reason:

P2W completely screws up gear progression, takes away all the satisfaction from getting new pieces, would make server firsts completely meaningless and there would be no reason whatsoever to raid or do warzones.
So you need to feel better about yourself by accomplishing things that even a retard could if he had the time. Sorry grinding isnt skill and you shouldnt feel better

I will only agree with 1 reason i show about why p2w is bad, it is the fact that bioware might intentionally slow the time we need to get gear making it require insane amount of time to get unless you buy it. That isnt really healthy since most people will simply ragequit if they see it takes years.

But on the other hand i find getting gear through money not really a big deal, why? Simply because better geared players wll always exist, its either the one that payed money or the one who spend days playing. It wont give them a real unfair advantage(well unless if it takes years to grind the gear without money).
THE REAL issue here is things that will clearly hurt f2p players like the limited quickbar slots, NOW THAT IS PAY TO WIN, beceuse if you have too few quickslots you cant put all your skills on and your effectiveness is hindered.

So lets look on real p2w elements who directly hurt f2p players abillity to win and not "silly time achievements" like gear

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
11.13.2012 , 04:42 AM | #15
time = money
grind = p2w
one can 'grind' money and spend it virtually, other can 'grind' items.

edit: p2w is to get BETTER gear for money then you can get for free (well, free = grind, so since time = money, nothing is free)
in instance where you get same gear for money, it's rather 'pay to not grind'.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

Rassuro's Avatar


Rassuro
11.13.2012 , 04:55 AM | #16
Pay to win is not getting the same gear that you can get by just playing, pay 2 win is getting better gear than what you can get by just playing.

Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Here's why gear grind is bad. If you can get the best gear by grinding for a really long time, then every time a new set of gear comes out, people with tons of time will be able to grind the whole set instantly right off the bat. This will give said players a massive advantage everywhere.
I agree 100%. :trollface:

Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
You do endgame content TO acquire new peices of gear.
You're lost again, this is the PVP forum. There is no endgame content here.
Toor, 50 Operative healer | Odaen, 50 Assassin tank | Tiyr, 50 Vanguard tank | Zerofour, 50 Mercenary DPS | The Red Eclipse

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
11.13.2012 , 05:03 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Labradoraki View Post
So you need to feel better about yourself by accomplishing things that even a retard could if he had the time.
No effort invested, no reward given.

And can you not see the runaway effect?

Player A buys his gear instead of going through the sweat and toil player B has. That puts Player B at a disadvantage, so he will also have to buy his gear if he wants to have even odds against player A. Then Player C and D will be at a disadvantage and will need to buy gear if they want to keep competing against Players A and B. And so forth, and so forth....

In PvP all big PvP guild would immeditely buy the best gear to tip the scales in their favor. Then smaller PvP guilds would have to compensate by also buying gear because otherwise they would be at too big a disadvantage. Then competitive solo players would have to buy it too because otherwise, well, they won't be competitive. The vast majority of casual players (what's left of them anyway) would leave because this would mean they could never ever win a match again. Some of those who bought the best gear would also leave because there is nothing left for them to play for.

P2W would effectively cut the playerbase in half. Some would pay but most would leave. Then more server mergers would follow as disgruntled people, who actually played the game to be successful, leave and this would gain momentum as more and more people stop playing because his/her friends and guild members have already moved on. Then a point would come, where so few players play the game that the revenue they generate woud not cover the cost maintaining the game/paying the staff/developing new content. This would significantly drive up prices in the cash shop as they try to compensate for the lost revenue. The more people leave, the more expensive the items become. The more expensive they become, less and less people buy them.

At some point most of the P2W players would leave, too, because they wouldn't be able to pay for anything new and EA wouldn't not have the money to develop anything new anyway.

Total shutdown would follow shortly.

P2W is a death blow to any MMO game and there is a very valid reason why none of largest MMO games are P2W.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
11.13.2012 , 05:13 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
No effort invested, no reward given.

And can you not see the runaway effect?

Player A buys his gear instead of going through the sweat and toil player B has. That puts Player B at a disadvantage, so he will also have to buy his gear if he wants to have even odds against player A. Then Player C and D will be at a disadvantage and will need to buy gear if they want to keep competing against Players A and B. And so forth, and so forth....
P2W.
Player A has a full time job, family, and responsibilities, that puts him on disadvantage if he want's to compete with player B.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
11.13.2012 , 05:13 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Rassuro View Post
You're lost again, this is the PVP forum. There is no endgame content here.
Correct me if I'm wrong but "endgame content" means "content played when you reach the maximum level cap". By any definition the 50 PvP bracket is "endgame" in any and all sense of the word. It has an ever progressing gear grind, just like PvE, hence 50 warzones are "Endgame PVP Content". Le gasp.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
11.13.2012 , 05:21 AM | #20
The essence of any competitive game is you pit yourself against the opponent on equal terms, within the game, to see who is better.

If you play someone at chess, do you regard the fact that they have practiced and played more as unfair? Perhaps you demand that you should be able to buy six more queens if you want, as your time is too valuable to waste learning how to play.

For a game to be a clean contest and have the integrity to keep people engaged, it must not be possible to simply buy your way to victory, because then it's just a contest to see who can spend the most rather than who's best at the game.

For the record, I'm married and have a full-time job; and also two toons in full aug-WH. It's not that hard to gear up. I'll pay to play (I subscribe after all), but I would quit the moment a game went pay to win; because I want to play a game, not get into a wallet-waving contest.
It's a small world and it smells funny, I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money.
Ilmarinen 55 Scoundrel (Red Eclipse)