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Artifice is crap?

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AsheraII's Avatar


AsheraII
02.15.2012 , 06:36 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Deathnasty View Post
apart from the only off hands that people want are for shadow tanks and they don't exist yet due to a known bug
Funny that you mention those. The difference between what would've been a comparable willpower based shield with the aavailable strength based shield actually isn't that big.
The strength shield might actually be slightly beneficial, provided it's your only strength based piece of gear. Melee Crit Rate per point of strength/willpower. Look it up.
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livnthedream's Avatar


livnthedream
02.15.2012 , 07:04 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by AsheraII View Post
Funny that you mention those. The difference between what would've been a comparable willpower based shield with the aavailable strength based shield actually isn't that big.
The strength shield might actually be slightly beneficial, provided it's your only strength based piece of gear. Melee Crit Rate per point of strength/willpower. Look it up.
shadow tanks dont benefit from str at all.

GeorgZoeller's Avatar


GeorgZoeller
02.15.2012 , 07:27 PM | #13 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by nickCAV View Post
Artifice needs more schematic drops. The poin only ones I've heard of are the magenta crystals
The next major content patch adds additional schematic drops.

AsheraII's Avatar


AsheraII
02.16.2012 , 07:33 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by livnthedream View Post
shadow tanks dont benefit from str at all.
Oh, you don't melee as a shadow tank then?

In case you never even played a Consular (or an Inquisitor for that matter), the Shadow AC is a melee-based AC, unlike the Sage AC. Same with the Sith Assassin AC, that's also a melee based AC, while the Sorcerer is ranged.

Strength gives both bonus melee damage and bonus melee crit, just in case it's too hard for you to hover your mouse over the strength attribute on your character window for more than 3 seconds as well.
Willpower gives bonus melee damage, bonus melee crit, bonus force damage and bonus force crit.

Neither directly affects your tanking capability, even less your defense ratings, and both have only a minor effect on your aggro capabilities which are derived from the damage you deal.

Basically, you'll tank way better using a crafted purple strength based shield than you'd do with that blue mission reward you got from Corellia. Even if there was a comparable Willpower based shield, the difference between 43 strength or 43 willpower would be neglectable to a tank. If that's not enough, simply get a critted one, and put willpower in the augment slot.
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Niddhog's Avatar


Niddhog
02.16.2012 , 07:57 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by AsheraII View Post
Oh, you don't melee as a shadow tank then?

In case you never even played a Consular (or an Inquisitor for that matter), the Shadow AC is a melee-based AC, unlike the Sage AC. Same with the Sith Assassin AC, that's also a melee based AC, while the Sorcerer is ranged.

Strength gives both bonus melee damage and bonus melee crit, just in case it's too hard for you to hover your mouse over the strength attribute on your character window for more than 3 seconds as well.
Willpower gives bonus melee damage, bonus melee crit, bonus force damage and bonus force crit.

Neither directly affects your tanking capability, even less your defense ratings, and both have only a minor effect on your aggro capabilities which are derived from the damage you deal.

Basically, you'll tank way better using a crafted purple strength based shield than you'd do with that blue mission reward you got from Corellia. Even if there was a comparable Willpower based shield, the difference between 43 strength or 43 willpower would be neglectable to a tank. If that's not enough, simply get a critted one, and put willpower in the augment slot.
As a shadow tank, all our threat moves are force based. The only melee move I use is double strike- project, force breach, slow time, telekinetic throw... these are all force based attacks. While double strike is effecient for its damage/force power cost... it has no bonus threat coeffecients and is mainly used to proc particle acceleration... which forces the next project to crit (project in turn is talented for bonus threat). Slow time is -very- force/damage effecient, and generates bonus threat+ is aoe+ adds two debuffs to every target. Breach is AoE and also leaves a debuff (force effecient for damage, no bonus threat however). ST/project both stack harnessed shadows... which increase TK throw damage. at 3 stacks also causes TK throw to do self healing...

As far as "directly affects tanking ability" Doesn't matter what my defensive stats are, if I don't have threat I'm not tanking. As a new shadow tank (what you are talking about) threat can most definately be an issue- especially when one is getting a feel for best threat rotation. Even guarding a geared dps, the threat difference can be too much (like when I started doing FP's as a fresh 50 with 2 geared smugglers.... I learned threat quickly O.o)

TL;DR Melee crit is a -very- insignificant part of a shadow tank's threat output. Our only melee skill (other than lol 0 force attack for filler) is used ONLY to proc a more powerful FORCE attack. Everything else (force attacks) are our real bread/butter.

So no.. in fact you DON'T need melee as a shadow tank. In fact I can/have successfully tanked using only my force abilities at 10m range when the situation demands. yes I do suffer a threat loss (small) but only because I can't use my 1 melee ability to proc tasty project crits.

The wise speak only of what they know: please learn a class before talking down to someone about it.

That being str WILL improve threat for a shadow/sin tank, but very marginally compared to WP. The oversight of missing a craftable offhand/matrix cube for us... while annoying at best, is not fair.

Shadow tanks should not be forced to take sub-par gear due to a 2 month (since live) developer oversight. Combined with the fact that there is no willpower/defense based matrix cube... and its a rather harsh slap in the face for Shadow/Sin tanks.

Boshlord's Avatar


Boshlord
02.16.2012 , 08:18 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Bialaska View Post
So I hit 50 with my inquisitor, levelling up artifice, archaology and treasure hunting and all hit 400. While it lacked the omg-factor of being able to craft medpacs, I always had a blue hilt to put into my own and my pets lightsabers/vibroswords.

And then I hit level 50. All the end game gear is better than the hilts and enhancements I can craft myself. I get a few relics to craft. But the lightsabers that I can craft are crap compared to the Champion/Columi Lightsabers.

All in all I now sit with the feeling that I just wasted hundreds of thousands of credits on levelling a useless craft.

So please fix this Bioware, please, make Artifice useful in end game, either to make the rank 25 hilts/enhancements (similar to those in Columi/Artifice) or somehow give us some other boosts, please.
If your posting this now you haven't been on the forums the last 2 months. Unfortunatly the 2 options are to wait for the next major content patch or to drop for biochem which isn't to expensive/hard to level (think you can probably level to 400 in like 3 hours as a 50

Mavnas's Avatar


Mavnas
02.16.2012 , 08:38 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by AsheraII View Post
You've got the most accessible source of raid-worthy offhands WITH augment slots for Inquisitors and Consulars, half the Bounty Hunters and all Troopers, Juggernauts and Guardians. Basically, 9 out of 16 Advanced Classes. And you're ditching it?

Even if I bought all the mats on the GTN I could make a profit out of those. But, with just a small investment and some smart arrangements in guild, Artificing can make you a crucial member for your guild to gear up the fresh 50's.

The best part of Artificing isn't the lightsabers or the modifications. It's the often forgotten off-hands.
They don't really sell on my server. Unless it's got an augment slot, and even then I'm not sure I can really extract the cost of failing to crit several times.

here's the problem, I've sold the purple tier 6 gems for 13k each before. I can't sell any of the enhancements for at least 52k (even assuming the non-purple mats are free, I'm LOSING money by turning my materials into something).

Balth_azare's Avatar


Balth_azare
02.16.2012 , 08:41 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Niddhog View Post
What you fail to realize is that after you crit craft, you can drop artifice and level synthweaving. Crit craft your BoP synthweaving belt/bracers then drop it. End on biochem for their BoP stims/adrenals and the money you save/quality of life benefit of reusables.

THAT is the real issue (credits are also a joke). All BoP craft items should require 400 in their respective crew skill to use.
So that if/when they input those requirements I will be screwed? I think not.

I will play it safe and laugh at everyone who went through leveling 2+ crew skills for 1337 gears and gets slapped with the requirements of 400 in X/Y/Z to use.

They did it for Cybertech grenades, they will most likely do it for the rest of the crew skills.

And honestly, by the time you level up and get your reuseable stim/adrenal/medpac, you'll have spent enough money that you could have just bought a massive amount from the vendor (as far as the stim/medpac go). Luck with RNG aside of course with how long it takes to RE the purple schematics.

ZudetGambeous's Avatar


ZudetGambeous
02.16.2012 , 08:49 AM | #19
Artifice is not crap at all... you are just doing it wrong...

With artifice I sell 400k in Enhancements daily.

I am capable of crafting for myself the best Relics in the game (even better then Nightmare mode Ops)

I can create the best lightsaber outside of Nightmare mode ops because it can crit an augment slot, and once they allow us to pull the mods out of ops gear it will be even better then the ops ones.

I can create Offhands equal to the Columi offhands which are great for people just getting into ops.

I can create one of the best Color crystals and in a color that is unique to artifice.

So yeah... you are jut doing it wrong I guess... Don't know what else to tell you.
I tell you this: though neither he nor they yet know it, he is the greatest of all the Jedi. Jacen Solo is the living Jedi dream. Even without the Force, he is more dangerous than you can possibly imagine."

Niddhog's Avatar


Niddhog
02.16.2012 , 09:10 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Balth_azare View Post
So that if/when they input those requirements I will be screwed? I think not.

I will play it safe and laugh at everyone who went through leveling 2+ crew skills for 1337 gears and gets slapped with the requirements of 400 in X/Y/Z to use.

They did it for Cybertech grenades, they will most likely do it for the rest of the crew skills.

And honestly, by the time you level up and get your reuseable stim/adrenal/medpac, you'll have spent enough money that you could have just bought a massive amount from the vendor (as far as the stim/medpac go). Luck with RNG aside of course with how long it takes to RE the purple schematics.
Just saying its a possibility that people can/have done. I'm not doing it as it is an abuse to the system, and well... I'm lazy . As far as credit costs...? credits are worthless, this doesn't need to be said again. However you can easily buy the reusables from another biochem as long as you have 400 skill (in fact I've seen some bios try and sell these for pathetic prices). Also... what is its CD? 2 minutes? Using it every time its up in a 15 minute match (just say 6, what with defending/waiting for oppurtune times) and 3 hours of pvp with your friends/guildies. Waiting 5 minutes in queue between 15 minute matches is 3 matches an hour. 9 matches in 3 hours, 6 uses a match. Thats 54 uses in that night. Adrenals (before the mat change) would go around 10k each if you could even find. Its just nice to know its always there, and you'll never have to do dailies to afford another batch again... ever, while maintaining the full benefits of chain popping adrenals.

Idk, if I hadn't learned about that after getting 400 artifice/my crit crafted relics, I would have rerolled. Its just a very appealing bonus to me, which is why I'm leveling my alts as biochem.