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Lost Island HM should have better loot.


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This is getting a bit ridiculous, the rewards that drop from Lorrick more than make up for the effort to clear this flashpoint. In a lot of situations you will see players with full columi sometimes even rakata / columi yet they still wield a recruit mk-2 mainhand. The Columi mainhand drop from lorrick is an awesome opportunity for a chance to get the columi weapon people tend to miss due to not doing operations so frequently or being generally unlucky with them. Also Rakata Chestpiece with Mainhand is one of the most difficult to obtain Rakata piece in the game, it is quite the generous reward for the hassle. Not to mention the fancy speeder drop chance and the pet drop chance is a bonus for quite many players.

 

 

It doesn't need to have better loot, and it doesn't need to be nerfed.

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Exception rather than the rule.

 

Not really, it shows that enough damage is avoidable so players with "only" Recruit are able to take it down, this then means that players, if skilled enough, can take it down without having any of the tier gear. Sure, many groups are probably not able to do it but the fact that it's possible means that the only thing that it takes, is a high amount of skill, however that is something that many lack in this game.

 

I would like to quote AllisonBerryman on this, read this and understand what it means:

 

He mentioned that Lost Island is balanced very tightly for a group in Tionese-quality gear, but that because the boss mechanics are heavily execution-based, many players prefer to overgear for it. Small mistakes can easily wipe the group, so bringing Ops level gear is great insurance, even if it isn't required. The loot quality reflects this - players who take the risk of going in with Tionese and Columi gear will be rewarded. Players with Ops level gear are likely there for the Black Hole Commendations right now.

 

What people is complaining about in this thread is that when they enter with their over geared characters they don't get any "better" gear as drops, and the reason for them entering with their overgeared characters is that are not able to handle the mechanics and thus need to have higher DPS, HPS, migration and HP to cover up for their own mistakes.

 

The real question that these players should ask isn't "Why doesn't LI HM drop better gear?", it should be "What can I as a player do to improve my performance in PvE?", because what it comes down to after considering all points, arguments and posts in this entire thread, is peoples performance and the fact that their current performance isn't enough for LI HM and the mechanics, bosses and fights that occur in this flashpoint.

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@RikuvonDrake <3 U :)

 

I had another thought on the Rakata Chestpiece.

 

HM EV may not be particular challenging to a group that knows that they're doing, but you can only run it once per week and there are 7 other people in the instance that you are competing against for the Rakata Chestpiece drop from Soa.

 

HM LI can be run as many times as you want in succession and with only 3 other people competing for the drop, you have a much greater chance of getting it.

 

See this just seems fair to me that Lost Island is as hard as it is.

Edited by Khevar
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I talked with Jesse Sky (Lead Flashpoints and Operations Designer) about the difficulty of Lost Island and its rewards, and he shared his insight about these questions.

 

He mentioned that Lost Island is balanced very tightly for a group in Tionese-quality gear, but that because the boss mechanics are heavily execution-based, many players prefer to overgear for it. Small mistakes can easily wipe the group, so bringing Ops level gear is great insurance, even if it isn't required. The loot quality reflects this - players who take the risk of going in with Tionese and Columi gear will be rewarded. Players with Ops level gear are likely there for the Black Hole Commendations right now.

 

I have to disagree with this.

 

I'm not a gear snob by any means, twice since last week I've had a recruit gear PuG in my EC SM group and done surprisingly well. However there's no way on earth this flashpoint is balanced for tionese, while there are people who got past it most of that level tend to fail at either the shaclaw or the droid especially healers or tanks.

 

Not in any way calling for a nerf but there's no way tionese is enough just because a small minority of "leet" players done it in that gear. The gear should reflect what the majority can get past it in, which IMO tends to be columi.

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Not in any way calling for a nerf but there's no way tionese is enough just because a small minority of "leet" players done it in that gear. The gear should reflect what the majority can get past it in, which IMO tends to be columi.

 

Agreed. Decent players can get through it in partial Tionese or Recruit with some Columi, but only a very good group will be able to get through with all TIonese.

 

In my experience, the hardest role in LI HM is healer and it's not forgiving of people with L2P issues. Even if all of the group avoids as much damage as possible by paying attention to the mechanics, the shaclaw and Sav-Rak are very hard work for the healer, and it's usually at Sav-Rak where healers that are not absolutely maximising their heals and energy management fail. I've had numerous occasions where sorcs or sages have failed repeatedly to keep the group alive because they were running out of force, and that tells me that they really don't know how to properly do sorc healer energy management.

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What people is complaining about in this thread is that when they enter with their over geared characters they don't get any "better" gear as drops, and the reason for them entering with their overgeared characters is that are not able to handle the mechanics and thus need to have higher DPS, HPS, migration and HP to cover up for their own mistakes.

 

The real question that these players should ask isn't "Why doesn't LI HM drop better gear?", it should be "What can I as a player do to improve my performance in PvE?", because what it comes down to after considering all points, arguments and posts in this entire thread, is peoples performance and the fact that their current performance isn't enough for LI HM and the mechanics, bosses and fights that occur in this flashpoint.

 

Most of the people can't do LI mostly with tionese, and they can get stuff from SM KP easily. Not to say most of them already did LI a few times before.

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In my experience, the hardest role in LI HM is healer and it's not forgiving of people with L2P issues. Even if all of the group avoids as much damage as possible by paying attention to the mechanics, the shaclaw and Sav-Rak are very hard work for the healer, and it's usually at Sav-Rak where healers that are not absolutely maximising their heals and energy management fail. I've had numerous occasions where sorcs or sages have failed repeatedly to keep the group alive because they were running out of force, and that tells me that they really don't know how to properly do sorc healer energy management.

 

Well all 3 roles have to be very good.

 

Tank mostly need good skills in the last fight against Lorrick to avoid his Sachel Charge, also pick him ASAP when he reemerges after the tank broke, DPS also has to do a good job to avoid all the damage in 3 boss encounters, and DPS Lorrick quickly enough before he opens the 4th tank.

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Most of the people can't do LI mostly with tionese, and they can get stuff from SM KP easily. Not to say most of them already did LI a few times before.

If the group was in Columi, the last drop (Rakata Chestpiece and Columi Mainhand) will be an upgrade.

 

With 1.6, EVERYBODY gets a full set of free Tionese. This means that for most people, the last boss on a T1 FP will have their upgrade.

 

This is just fair, don't you think?

 

Then take into account the fact that EV and KP are on weekly lockouts and require 8 people to do. That's 7 other people you're competing with for the same drop that you can only do once per week. HM LI is infinitely repeatable and you're only competing with 3 other people.

 

Now, if a group is unable to complete the flashpoint in full Columi, there are many many guides to help them get better.

Edited by Khevar
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If the group was in Columi, the last drop (Rakata Chestpiece and Columi Mainhand) will be an upgrade.

 

With 1.6, EVERYBODY gets a full set of free Tionese. This means that for most people, the last boss on a T1 FP will have their upgrade.

 

This is just fair, don't you think?

 

Then take into account the fact that EV and KP are on weekly lockouts and require 8 people to do. That's 7 other people you're competing with for the same drop that you can only do once per week. HM LI is infinitely repeatable and you're only competing with 3 other people.

 

Now, if a group is unable to complete the flashpoint in full Columi, there are many many guides to help them get better.

 

Well that's the case,

 

Tionese is enought for all the Tier1 HM FP, recruit gear is enough for some of the FP especially as DPS. The bosses don't just drop tionese, but also columi belt/implants, along with Exotech sometimes. So it's upgrade for them as well.

 

But most of the LI runners got at least half columi and D7 and Foundry are both easy, so LR-5 and Sav-Rak's drop are usually quite pointless.

 

Sure Lorrick drops good so I think we should leave him there, but the other 2 should either get better drop or get nerfed. Sure I can run well with good groups but none of us look at their drops.

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Well that's the case,

 

Tionese is enought for all the Tier1 HM FP, recruit gear is enough for some of the FP especially as DPS. The bosses don't just drop tionese, but also columi belt/implants, along with Exotech sometimes. So it's upgrade for them as well.

 

But most of the LI runners got at least half columi and D7 and Foundry are both easy, so LR-5 and Sav-Rak's drop are usually quite pointless.

 

Sure Lorrick drops good so I think we should leave him there, but the other 2 should either get better drop or get nerfed. Sure I can run well with good groups but none of us look at their drops.

You're saying that D7 and Foundry are easy. Of course they are. They are TOO easy. You're trying to take the ONLY flashpoint in the entire game that has any challenge to it and trivializing it.

 

I believe you should up your standards of ability play your class, interrupt damage, avoid circles on the group and move at the right time. Don't lower the standard of difficulty to match your ability.

 

LR-5 only requires 2162 dps to beat his enrage timer. The tank will do at least 400-500. That leaves 800 each for the dps. That is NOT HARD TO DO. If you never miss an incinerate, never stand in the energy coils, and the tank maintains aggro, there really isn't that much damage to heal.

 

This is why players can do it without awesome gear. This is also why some of the people earlier in this thread make absurd claims like "requiring BH/Rakata gear." They're taking too much avoidable damage and running around like a chicken when they should be hitting the boss.

 

Why are you lobbying to make the instance easier instead of trying to become a better player?

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You're saying that D7 and Foundry are easy. Of course they are. They are TOO easy. You're trying to take the ONLY flashpoint in the entire game that has any challenge to it and trivializing it.

 

Yeah so not many people will try to get their columi pants/boot by doing LI.

 

I believe you should up your standards of ability play your class, interrupt damage, avoid circles on the group and move at the right time. Don't lower the standard of difficulty to match your ability.

 

LR-5 only requires 2162 dps to beat his enrage timer. The tank will do at least 400-500. That leaves 800 each for the dps. That is NOT HARD TO DO. If you never miss an incinerate, never stand in the energy coils, and the tank maintains aggro, there really isn't that much damage to heal.

 

Yeah sure I beat it many times easily with good groups, but many groups I met wipe horribly there, and it is more difficult than other FP's bosses.

 

This is why players can do it without awesome gear. This is also why some of the people earlier in this thread make absurd claims like "requiring BH/Rakata gear." They're taking too much avoidable damage and running around like a chicken when they should be hitting the boss.

 

Why are you lobbying to make the instance easier instead of trying to become a better player?

 

Well among all of the groups I've met need at least 1 rakata guy to beat it, it's the healer because Sav-Rak's encounter, we did avoid all the damage we could but the healer still could not heal up.

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Slowpokeking, see here's the difference between you and me:

 

I see difficult content and say, "I need to get better to beat it"

 

You see difficult content and say, "Make it easier, or overgear it" Then when you beat it by overgearing it, you say, "It needs to drop more rewards to make it worthwhile"

 

By now, it's apparent that I'll never convince you otherwise. I just hope that the devs don't listen to you. We've already had two nerfs on HM LI, and you're hard at work on another.

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Yeah so not many people will try to get their columi pants/boot by doing LI.

 

Right. I, for one, look at flashpoints's loot as whatever the last boss drops. In this case, Columi mainhand and Rakata chest. No other flashpoint has that. You need to do operations to get them.

 

Well among all of the groups I've met need at least 1 rakata guy to beat it, it's the healer because Sav-Rak's encounter, we did avoid all the damage we could but the healer still could not heal up.

 

What makes that boss hard for the healer, is dps eating his cleave. Yes, usually people avoid it most of the time.

But when the ape starts his chest pounding thing, they should stack up looking at his ugly butt. Not in front of him (range dps may fall for it since they're at a safe distance before this) , because after the smash, if boss doesn't jump immediately to the pipes, dps will eat his cleave. Squishies going to the consoles at 30% health.... well, a pain to heal through....

 

We've already had two nerfs on HM LI, and you're hard at work on another.

 

What two nerfs ?

 

One is the white circle "warning" on droid boss. The other ?

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Right. I, for one, look at flashpoints's loot as whatever the last boss drops. In this case, Columi mainhand and Rakata chest. No other flashpoint has that. You need to do operations to get them.

 

But a good designed FP should have the the bosses upgrade loot for people, not just the final boss, especially the first 2 bosses require columi to beat for most of the people.

 

 

What makes that boss hard for the healer, is dps eating his cleave. Yes, usually people avoid it most of the time.

But when the ape starts his chest pounding thing, they should stack up looking at his ugly butt. Not in front of him (range dps may fall for it since they're at a safe distance before this) , because after the smash, if boss doesn't jump immediately to the pipes, dps will eat his cleave. Squishies going to the consoles at 30% health.... well, a pain to heal through....

 

It's the lag issue, if you don't get near him, you may be too late to get beneath him when he use that smash.

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Stop whining.

 

Should we nerf heavily EC HM because the vast majority of players cannot pass it in Rakata (without any amelioration) ? Or Nerf EC Nightmare/TFB HM because the vast majority of players cannot pass them with BH/Campaign gear ? No. When the new Operation will come, a nerf would be welcome, to give a chance to the newcomers to gear up fast. EC NM went that way.

 

The same logic applie to LI. When a new FP will come, I'd agree to nerf LI, but now : NO. And yes, this FP can be done with a good Tionese group, like EC HM was doable in Rakata, but most of the players weren't able to pass the tanks in SM, even in Rakata ......

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Stop whining.

 

Should we nerf heavily EC HM because the vast majority of players cannot pass it in Rakata (without any amelioration) ? Or Nerf EC Nightmare/TFB HM because the vast majority of players cannot pass them with BH/Campaign gear ? No. When the new Operation will come, a nerf would be welcome, to give a chance to the newcomers to gear up fast. EC NM went that way.

 

The same logic applie to LI. When a new FP will come, I'd agree to nerf LI, but now : NO. And yes, this FP can be done with a good Tionese group, like EC HM was doable in Rakata, but most of the players weren't able to pass the tanks in SM, even in Rakata ......

 

They drop better gear than Rakata and Campaign/BH.

 

Very very few Tionese groups could do it well, and the groups we saw in this thread mostly already did it many times, just use Tionese for a challenge, that's totally different than newbies doing LI.

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My suggestion is instead of Columi boot/leg, let the first 2 bosses drop some non set gears with level 58 mods and Rakata implant/earpiece.

Forgot how to interrupt? Never heard of cleanse? Do you think the circles mean "Stand Here"?

 

No problem, just grind some black hole comms for a week and try again!

 

P.S. And while we're at it, Story Mode Toth and Zorn is harder than Dr. Lorrick and HM Soa, all of which drop the Rakata Chest. Let's have SM T/Z drop a Campaign Chestpiece instead! Oh, and a random Hazmat implant, too!

 

:shootmenow:

Edited by Khevar
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Forgot how to interrupt? Never heard of cleanse? Do you think the circles mean "Stand Here"?

 

No problem, just grind some black hole comms for a week and try again!

 

P.S. And while we're at it, Story Mode Toth and Zorn is harder than Dr. Lorrick and HM Soa, all of which drop the Rakata Chest. Let's have SM T/Z drop a Campaign Chestpiece instead! Oh, and a random Hazmat implant, too!

 

:shootmenow:

 

Not everyone will want to try LI with Tionese and pay all the repair bills, especially pugs. At most 7-8 wipes then disband.

 

I don't see a tionese pug could do LI, maybe 1/10 of them can past LR-5 and 1/20 of them will be able to do it.

Edited by Slowpokeking
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Not everyone will want to try LI with Tionese and pay all the repair bills, especially pugs. At most 7-8 wipes then disband.

 

I don't see a tionese pug could do LI, maybe 1/10 of them can past LR-5 and 1/20 of them will be able to do it.

 

Then don't do it with Tionese gear.

 

/thread

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The only thing that bugs me about this Instance is when you finish it, you 1 Tionese Comm which thb isn't that useful when rest of the instance drops columi.

 

but apart from that, i love this instance, i hope they don't change it.

 

Now if they made a Nightmare Mode Verison of this then i'd love this even more.

 

P.S the Bonus boss drops nothing but rubbish lol.

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