What exactly in legacy perks give you pay to win? Rocket boots are a convenience pure and simple. Nothing in the cash shop or legacy gives a player a massive boost that suggest pay to win. It does not diminish your accomplishment that you ground out 4mil creds. The real accomplishment was that you had the patience to save for it. What price would in cartel coins do you feel would be sufficient? $10 in real money $20 perhaps. It is a nice perk to have yes but it is in no way a slap to your face. You still made the sacrifice and that still means something. However with the credit cap CC is the only way to get the f2p players to spend money. They need something to spend it on and I think $5 is pretty reasonable. Besides most of the other global unlocks are similar in price.

 

Taking your scenario of it needs to be in line for time invested vs cost (assuming it takes 2 hours of dailies per day at a gain of 250k per day) I would need to work at a real job for the equivalent of 18 hours. Now given that minimum wage (lets not worry about higher earners because that makes this even worse) is not an even number lets say $8/hr for just neat math sake, I would have to spend $144 in real money for the comparison to credits earned per hour. There are many variables here because I may make more in credits than you do per hour or even less which makes the real world comparison higher or lower but then this is just about an average as 250k is reasonable doing dallies. Now we are only doing some rough math here but you get the point being that it would make the game cost prohibitive and very out of sync.

 

The P2W mentality is that it is easier to buy then to grind. In other words, unless you're broke as hell, why would anyone choose to grind out 4 million over spending $5? So my point is lower the cost in legacy to say 1 or 2 million if the CC cost is goin to be at its current rate. I understand that credits - real money is a subjective topic... However my rule of thumb would be to set the cost so that an "average" player would be inclined to see the choices available to be balanced. I understand EA wants to make more money and I don't have a problem with that... But when you start to encourage a community that lacks any sense of *delayed gratification* you, IMO, start to degrade the MMO.

 

As an adult I completely get and agree with the argument that not everyone can grind hours of game time per day. So for us adults who can afford it, buying via CC is, IMO, fair. But when you set the price such that it would make more "average" subscribers more inclined to spend $$$ over playing the game and "working for it" (even if you have the time to do so) then you not only take away from the player who invested significant time to buy it, you encourage people to just buy things because its insane to spend days earning 4mil when for most adults, $5 isn't crap.

 

So if you want to sell it for $5 bucks because that's all that perk is demmed worth, then reflect that in future legacy cost by reducing the in-game credit cost to make that option more competitive.

 

In other words, EA shouldn't, IMO, start down the path of encouraging people just to buy perks, items, armor, ect instead of giving two "reasonable" options. Again, I conceded the final cost ratio is subjective.

The P2W mentality is that it is easier to buy then to grind. In other words, unless you're broke as hell, why would anyone choose to grind out 4 million over spending $5? So my point is lower the cost in legacy to say 1 or 2 million if the CC cost is goin to be at its current rate. I understand that credits - real money is a subjective topic... However my rule of thumb would be to set the cost so that an "average" player would be inclined to see the choices available to be balanced. I understand EA wants to make more money and I don't have a problem with that... But when you start to encourage a community that lacks any sense of *delayed gratification* you, IMO, start to degrade the MMO.

 

As an adult I completely get and agree with the argument that not everyone can grind hours of game time per day. So for us adults who can afford it, buying via CC is, IMO, fair. But when you set the price such that it would make more "average" subscribers more inclined to spend $$$ over playing the game and "working for it" (even if you have the time to do so) then you not only take away from the player who invested significant time to buy it, you encourage people to just buy things because its insane to spend days earning 4mil when for most adults, $5 isn't crap.

 

So if you want to sell it for $5 bucks because that's all that perk is demmed worth, then reflect that in future legacy cost by reducing the in-game credit cost to make that option more competitive.

 

In other words, EA shouldn't, IMO, start down the path of encouraging people just to buy perks, items, armor, ect instead of giving two "reasonable" options. Again, I conceded the final cost ratio is subjective.

 

I understand the point you are trying to make but you fail to see it isn't pay to win period, end of story. You are paying for perks nothing more. Pay to win is if I don't buy this item I can't be competitive in this game. Rocket boots don't add an edge in pvp which is the only thing one might complain about. Some argument can be made to certain items we can get in the shop but they are subjective and very few. It just isn't pay to win. They aren't taking anything away from you they are making it more accessible than it was before. There are many items that they have done this with in this game. This happens in everything you do in daily life.

 

In order to have more people play over time things always get a bit cheaper here and there. This happened with speeders and may very well happen with some legacy items in the future. However this isn't the only instance of this happening in the game and this isn't the only game it happens in. In order to reach out to more players they have to change things up and trivializes nothing of what you accomplished before. You still have your accomplishment and if some player would prefer to buy it with cash then so be it. I see no problem here because I do feel EA should be encouraging buying of perks. I don't want it to turn into a true pay to win model and if you have played any Asian MMO's then you know exactly that you have to pay to be competitive at even a low level.

 

You have a right to voice your opinion on the matter to say you think credits and coins aren't comparable as far as investment and you may be right. I just happen to disagree that it in any way trivializes what you did. In fact I as most gamer's would not care how you went about getting them we just think it's cool that you have them. That doesn't mean that everyone will have to take your path. I am sure there are some people that made the credits in a day or two at most by use of the GTN. Does it trivialize what you did if it took you a month to make the same amount? And the answer is no.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Scovina

How can rocket boots even be considered P2W?

 

Rocket Boots honestly just make you look cool. Unless you consider 110% speed boost for 12 seconds game breaking.

This is why i didn't buy them when they were availible cause i knew you rich *** noobs would get slapped for it...so now i laugh at you hahahahahah ^.^

This is why i didn't buy them when they were availible cause i knew you rich *** noobs would get slapped for it...so now i laugh at you hahahahahah ^.^

 

This is how I feel because if you did buy them for the accomplishment of doing it you need no other gratification than doing it for itself.

This fanbase will complain about anything.

 

Please, just be quiet. I can't handle listening to all this ************. Be grateful that you got it in the first place, this is dumber then listening to people QQ about Jedi being able to be playable at level 1 in SWG.

 

thats a very stupid response when people spent months collecting holocrons to learn how to become a jedi only to have their hard work spat on buy devs that wanted newer players to have it all bad response on your part how would you like if someone could juts buy there way to say lvl 100 in the game in 5 seconds after you spent 1 year getting there if you dont have a problem with that something is wrong

 

the boots meh their cosmetic get over it thats what a cash shop is for

but you sir are wrong about your statement

Edited November 18, 2012 by TheLordMagnus

thats a very stupid response when people spent months collecting holocrons to learn how to become a jedi only to have their hard work spat on buy devs that wanted newer players to have it all bad response on your part how would you like if someone could juts buy there way to say lvl 100 in the game in 5 seconds after you spent 1 year getting there if you dont have a problem with that something is wrong

 

the boots meh their cosmetic get over it thats what a cash shop is for

but you sir are wrong about your statement

 

If they wanted to pay a ton of cash and they would have to then so be it let them spend the money. It is a win/win because now EA has more profit which will justify more content. The argument isn't valid anyway because by that statement if I get to the max level in one month the traditional way vs you taking a year it trivializes what it took you to accomplish that. No it does not in any way, shape or form. You made the accomplishment take longer because of whatever the reason ,not that it matters, it took you that long.

 

Not everyone is having the exact same experience you are. I may have more mounts or less mounts. I may have more datacrons or less datacrons. The list goes on and on. It is an evolving world where no two players will do exactly the same thing in the same manner!

This is how I feel because if you did buy them for the accomplishment of doing it you need no other gratification than doing it for itself.

 

Should have realized the price was ridiculous in the first place and not thrown creds into a money sink.

Should have realized the price was ridiculous in the first place and not thrown creds into a money sink.

 

Kind of the whole point of a credit sink though isn't it. Besides what the hell are people going to do get buried with their credits? I for one always have a little buyers remorse when spending so much currency on something but it goes away as within a week I've spent another million on another toy.

We loyal subscribers get rewarded via "free" cartel coins for every month we sub. So, in a way they're basically giving us everything that can be purchased on with cartel coins for nothing more than being a loyal subscriber. Granted, it will take time to be able to purchase everything for all twelve characters, but it's from doing nothing more than we have already loyally been doing for a year now.

 

As for those who are irked over things they had to grind for now being almost handed out, it happens in just about every MMO out there. Does it suck, yes, but it's just the way that it is. Eventually some of those things we grinded countless hours to obtain will become completely obsolete in the game... it happens.

 

For 500 coins a month I can't even buy 1 of those orange yellow crystals. Actually it takes 2 months to buy 1 crystal. Everything I said would happen is actually happening much faster. The value of cartel coins is so low that you're basically a sucker if you are subscribed since for your subscription you get nothing!!!

 

I actually plan on sitting down and doing some math to see if being subscribed even pays off in the long run. I think it's better to play for free and every so often spend some money when you need an extra character slot or the ability to use purple gear.

This fanbase will complain about anything.

 

Please, just be quiet. I can't handle listening to all this ************. Be grateful that you got it in the first place, this is dumber then listening to people QQ about Jedi being able to be playable at level 1 in SWG.

 

Totally agreed. Blah blah blah refund blah blah.

I agree with OP.

 

Sure, in an MMO things change (and I guess legacy perks make sense to have in the Cartel Shop).

 

But there is no reason there shouldn't be some kind of justice in those changes.

 

But in BW's defence, I guess the Cartel Coins players get for past subscribed months is BW's attempt to compliment us for the things we spent time achieving which can now be achieved in a second.

All these "It's fake money get over it" answers aren't necessary. That doesn't change the fact that it was a slap in the face. We wasted a **** ton of credits that took a **** ton of time to get on something that could of been bought for 5$ if not for free from the CC we receive monthly as subs.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that more people will be able to enjoy the boots, and I know those of us who already got them wont be compensated. But sometimes it's nice to let out some steam after getting gipped like this.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Radzkie

If it cost 5usd then that's a decent trade off I mean credits aren't real and if you were to put a monetary value on it you would get a lot of credits for 5bucks Because they are so easy to come by in the game

 

Mmos change that's the nature of them you

Spend months grinding top tier gear only for it to become obsolete at the next expansion

Fortunately with swtor gear if you like the look of a certain item or set you can keep them and upgrade the components

Edited November 20, 2012 by denpic

I think the problem that subscribers are not realizing here is this is not a slap to your face. The devs are trying to make it so the game is more accessible! Isn't this what we all want? We need more players to breathe life into this game and I appreciate the low prices on items in the shop. The monthly coin stipend is something they didn't even have to give to us but they do as a little thank you. At a minimum you are getting $5 dollars back for your subscription in CC! If you don't feel it is worth it then stop your subscription and see just how much you will spend when you want to jump into as many FP's and WZ's as you please. Not to mention the gear you will no longer be able to wear, cargo space etc. If you have already unlocked a great many things and you just want to play the story then no having a subscription may be for you. I for one applaud this move and know it has really bolstered my server for one. I made a new character the other day and had 5 instances of Korriban. Even during peak times you would be lucky to see 2 instances.

I have an image of BioWare employee's going round to people's houses and slapping folk round the face.

 

It amuses me.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Gomla

It sucks however sadly you will have to take it and It happen to all the early adopter.

 

Just like what happened to me in Steam Summer Sale. I bought Rage for 19.99 in the summer sale event, however 3 hours later the new daily sale drop Rage to 9.99. I email Valve and they reply that they can't do anything about it. (Can't refund or grant credit.)

For 500 coins a month I can't even buy 1 of those orange yellow crystals. Actually it takes 2 months to buy 1 crystal. Everything I said would happen is actually happening much faster. The value of cartel coins is so low that you're basically a sucker if you are subscribed since for your subscription you get nothing!!!

 

I actually plan on sitting down and doing some math to see if being subscribed even pays off in the long run. I think it's better to play for free and every so often spend some money when you need an extra character slot or the ability to use purple gear.

 

Yes you are right you are getting absolutely nothing at all for your subscription. Way to be horribly over dramatic.

What baffles me is how so many people in this thread are talking about BW devaluing all of your "hard work". Seriously, you're playing a game for entertainment. If this is work to you, you're either a sweatshop credit farmer or maybe should reconsider your hobby. Also, how does someone buying these perks now affect your enjoyment of the game? You saw something you wanted and did what was needed to get it, so clearly it was worth 4.5m to you. I fail to see how someone paying $5 for it changes that.

Of course they will change things, but dropping the price of a luxury item from 4 mill to 5 bucks is a slap in the face to those who worked for them.. it would be the same as if they came out next month with the ability to buy unlocks into endgame gear(26-28), like the artifact gear unlocks, then put up dreadguard and warhero gear up for sale for CC. People worked for that gear, then later the Devs come along and say "here, you can now buy these for 5 bucks".

 

It makes as much sense as putting defense rating on smuggler gear.. must be a QQ thing, right?

I remember grinding raids in WoW for months to get T2 epics only to see every friggin piece get replaced by quest blues the first week Burning Crusade went live. Welcome to the wonderful world of MMOs. Edited November 20, 2012 by GalacticKegger

This is how I feel because if you did buy them for the accomplishment of doing it you need no other gratification than doing it for itself.

 

That's a fairly altruistic way of looking at it ... honestly though I'm no saint and don't expect most other people to be either.

 

Part of the gratification is having other people validate your efforts not just yourself. It's part of what keeps people hooked to MMO grinds of all sorts. Yes things change but past efforts should be validated in different ways when they do. Maybe with a special title or novelty pet reward for completing the achievement in the past as examples.

 

It's not just the gratification of the challenge that counts for most people but also the recognition of it.

What baffles me is how so many people in this thread are talking about BW devaluing all of your "hard work". Seriously, you're playing a game for entertainment. If this is work to you, you're either a sweatshop credit farmer or maybe should reconsider your hobby. Also, how does someone buying these perks now affect your enjoyment of the game? You saw something you wanted and did what was needed to get it, so clearly it was worth 4.5m to you. I fail to see how someone paying $5 for it changes that.

 

When they say work they mean effort - not gainful employment. Effort can be fun as can recognition for effort. You know this I believe because it's not really hard to gauge given the topics context but you're playing semantics with the word "work".

 

Do you only play games that require no effort? Of course not just as people who "work" at games aren't on the payroll.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Rigermortis

Of course they will change things, but dropping the price of a luxury item from 4 mill to 5 bucks is a slap in the face to those who worked for them.. it would be the same as if they came out next month with the ability to buy unlocks into endgame gear(26-28), like the artifact gear unlocks, then put up dreadguard and warhero gear up for sale for CC. People worked for that gear, then later the Devs come along and say "here, you can now buy these for 5 bucks".

 

It makes as much sense as putting defense rating on smuggler gear.. must be a QQ thing, right?

 

No it's not. I bought everything from Legacy and I don't feel like I was slapped in the face. It was my choice to spend credits after all. I feel an alternative method was needed and I approve of it.

An analogy for all of you:

 

As a student, I worked really hard during the summer to earn enough money to buy me a new gaming PC. It had all the specifications I needed and to even be good in a foreseeable future.

 

Last week I saw a pamflet from a computer store that they sell that very same PC for only half the price I paid it then... My friend went and bought it.

 

I am not envious of my friend. I am not mad at my manufacturer that I have paid twice the amount in that time.

 

I am happy that I saw something I really wanted, I had the possibility to get it and I am still enjoying the performance this machine can bring me. And on top of that, I am proud of myself because it was my perseverance alone that got me that computer.

 

No one ever sees my computer, it's in my room. But I know it's there and I know how it got there. And that is what mattered.

 

Things lose their value over time... It"s the way of things.

What baffles me is how so many people in this thread are talking about BW devaluing all of your "hard work". Seriously, you're playing a game for entertainment. If this is work to you, you're either a sweatshop credit farmer or maybe should reconsider your hobby. Also, how does someone buying these perks now affect your enjoyment of the game? You saw something you wanted and did what was needed to get it, so clearly it was worth 4.5m to you. I fail to see how someone paying $5 for it changes that.

 

I like this way of thinking. Since the onset of 1.5 I've looked at the activity on virtually every planet and it's much higher than usual. Even Founder subsribers are having fun withthe cartel coins and what's inside the meteor that just fell by their feet.

 

Let's consider now the question of $5.00 vs. 4.5m credits. One is real money and the other is time. But how much time? With a subscription cost of $14.99 for a month, would it take anyone 1/3 of a month to crank out 4.5 mil for rocket boots? No. With all the dailies and other ways to make credits, they tend to pile up rather quickly if you're motivated to do it. PLUS when you're subscribing, you get all content, not just storyline. MMO subscriptions are still one of the cheapest forms of entertainment I know. Cartel coins just seem to have added to the fun.