called facing a premade einstein

^what pvp-pro here said. Premades give the enemy team a magical 99% damage debuff.

Funny that I can pug and still do 700+k damage in voidstars having a lot of deaths and being against preamdes. But I guess badds will allwas need an excuse because surely it's not them being bad.

<3 50k damage horrorshows.

called facing a premade einstein

that wasnt against a premade "einstein"... it was 2 full pug groups in lowbies. at least as far as i could tell, no duplicate guild tags that i saw

Just because I happened to be streaming this last night. Notice my total PUG winning a good match against a premade. We rolled through once we finally got a door. Also check for another poster in this thread to make a cameo .

hey im in that! lol

we got very, very bad pugs on our team lol

Read:

 

 

 

Ie. When there are enough players of each type, the matchmaking should prioritize Group vs. Group, PuG vs PuG, of equal rating. Don't let your bias make you look stupid.

 

 

 

 

Voice chat has been established as an advantage that Premades (not all groups though) can have that a PuG can not. Some debate whether it's a huge advantage or a small one, not really relevant. It's there, we know it, got it?

 

Balanced teams is not something a Premade can do (by itself.) Even if they bring the golden 4 (tank, heal, 2dps) they could still be thrown in with 4 dps, or 4 tanks, or 4 healers. Like wise, the enemy team could end up with 2-3 healers, 1-2 tanks, and 4-5 dps and have a golden "balance." Add in players actually utilizing legacy respec, and you've got better team composition.

 

Focus Fire is a skill. It doesn't require voice chat, grouping, etc... It's a skill.

 

Powerheals is a joke at worst, and an issue with game mechanics at best. Either way, having a strong healer is not a premade only thing.

 

Can we stop arguing what's and advantage (or what's a "HUGE Advantage!!!") and instead debate something that actually matters?

I dont Think youd play without those HUGE advantages for long. I suspect you play mostly Premade and thatswhy you want the current system to stay.

You wouldnt like to be without

- your HUGE heals,

- your voice Communication

- your PREFECTLY, in-advance balanced team

- the HUGE xp, credits and comms reward of stomping PUGs

?

I rest my case, your honor.

I dont Think youd play without those HUGE advantages for long. I suspect you play mostly Premade and thatswhy you want the current system to stay.

...

I don't get it. I just don't.

I say: "The situation is bad."

I say: "I want a change."

I say: "I want a matchmaking system that pits people of equal skill/competitive level against each other."

I say: "Maybe PuG'ing isn't my ideal of a good play style, but I can see others do and they shouldn't be punished so harshly by the situation."

I say: "Heck, the matchmaking should even place Premade vs. Premade as a priority."

I say: "Something needs to change, the situation is no good."

And you vomit out bile like: "You want don't want anything to change, you wanna Stomp."

Do I have to *********** come over there and rub your nose in your biased, hateful, ignorant word **** like a bad dog before you'll hear a damn word I've said?

Individual skills are the same for each class, but a premade can have a balanced team, with heal, tank and DPS, they can have voice communication, and the team play chemistry they developed over many matches.

Those are huge advantage because WZs are a team game.

If you can't see these advantages, you are just silly.

Now you're just being silly.

 

Is any one excluded from playing a healer as a PuG?

 

Do you have less Powers/Abilties as a PuG? Does grouping magically give a healer 2-3 more abilities with which to "Power heal?" Does being in a group grant players a +50% damage buff for the match?

 

Does guard only work if you are grouped with the target before you queue?

 

There is no difference in the mechanics a PuG player and Group play can use. Simple as that.

Individual skills are the same for each class, but a premade can have a balanced team, with heal, tank and DPS, they can have voice communication, and the team play chemistry they developed over many matches.

 

Those are huge advantage because WZs are a team game.

 

If you can't see these advantages, you are just silly.

*Sigh* I seem to have to be sighing a lot...

These "advantages" are not restricted to a Premade, and as a group of 4... a Premade still has zero control over the other 4 slots on their team. Meaning their "balanced team" is just as likely to end up with not enough healers, not enough, tanks, or not enough dps.

Whether these are "Huge" advantages or not (what is everyone's obsession with the word Huge?) or not is still irrelevant to the **** I'm saying.

All of these "advantages" are reflected in skill-based and/or Win/loss ratings. So even if Premades got a magical buff (+9,001 bonus damage, +9,001 defense, -and- stun locks the enemies keyboard) from know how to use /invite function, it would show up in their rating and when they entered the queue...

The system would try it's damned best to put them against people who also have the same rating.

Why is this so hard?

OK, good then we are on the same page, you want change , so do I.

excellent!

why do pugs lose? cuz they are bad....

 

http://i.imgur.com/poCJ7sl.jpg

 

shameful

Oh look, someone sorting by damage instead of mission goals and contribution to the team. How rare.

Oh look, someone sorting by damage instead of mission goals and contribution to the team. How rare.

Oh look, someone playing semantics. How rare.

OK, good then we are on the same page, you want change , so do I.

 

excellent!

*Frazzled* @.@

Yes... most (not all, but most) of us have been in agreement for ages that there's a problem.

We just sit here bickering which problem is it and how you fix it.

Oh look, someone playing semantics. How rare.

Semantics like posting a screenshot and posing as example of good player while getting so few objectives done? You should post much less and think about what you type a lot more.

premades should only face premades. solo que vs premade is ridiculous.

So if 4 friends want to play together but there aren't any other groups to face them, they shouldn't get to play...

Just so 8 pugs don't have to face them and get butt hurt for imagined advantages?

I feel the need for a disclaimer coming on:

Equally skilled/competitive players should fight each other. Whether they win due to personal skill, team coordination, or the mythical group buff, equal players should fight. Only when that option is -not- available should any form of mismatch occur.

Semantics like posting a screenshot and posing as example of good player while getting so few objectives done? You should post much less and think about what you type a lot more.

Right back at you.

Look at his post, never even says he's a good player, just that the others are bad.

The highest "objectives" score on his team is 5000, the enemies 11400 followed by 10400, then 9900, 8500...

Finally a comparison of his team. Again he never stated he was the good player but he had 779,000 damage and a measily 1,400 objective points. Interesting enough...

Only 3 players on his team received more than him, while one falls 200k below his damage, and the rest don't breach 300k.

Of the players on his team receiving equal to or less than his objective points; not one of them broke 100k, and most are close to or under 50k.

So his team: Low damage, low objective points, no protection (gonna bet atleast one of those was an assassin with a taunt...). Only thing they managed was decent heals.

Other team...

Edit: And your post was a critique on his sorting habits...

Think I made my point. Feel free to pull your foot out of your mouth.

How about you stop pissing and moaning and lying...

 

And join the discussion on how to "fix" the issue. Look around, you'll find maybe 1 or 2 posters who only say "Make friends, l2p." (In contrast to a number of PuG-centric posters who come in trash talking about the premade motives, personal habits, and other demonization's.)

 

Wanna know what the rest of your labeled "White-Knighters" are saying; "Yes, there's a bad situation. Whether it's cause of a lack of Casual effort or too much Non-Casual effort, lopsided matches occur. We need a mechanic that targets that, so casuals and non-casuals can all have their fun as much as possible. Matchmaking would do that."

 

So stop spouting your hateful nonsense, it's dragging down the conversation every time someone has to defend themselves from the next wave of "Premades kick Puppies."

I keep trying to remove you from my ignore list, but everytime I do you are back on it in 10 minutes.

Stop the teenage drama. Just communicate like a normal person for once. "Pissing and moaning and lying", "hateful nonsense", "premades kick puppies"...I won't even dignify that with a response.

Call it demonizing if you like; I already said my piece on why I choose to stay away from hardcore guilds and hardcore players in general. I avoid snarky, abrasive people in real life, and I avoid them in games also.

I already said I fell for your trolling once and I won't do it again, so I will not bother with a point by point rebuttal.

You may feel like this issue is centered around you, but it's not. Every post is not directed at you, and people who disagree with you are not character assassins looking to hurt your sensitive feelings. Nor are they mouth-breathing neanderthals because your half-assed logic doesn't convince anyone you are correct.

If you were capable of an honest discussion you would stop with the barrage of logical fallacies and actually attack a position instead of attacking people. You seem to be incapable of anything but arrogance, bullying, and pseudo-intellectual parroting. I DARE you to make 10 posts without the drama, insults, and personal attacks. Just state your case and then shut up, don't add all the extra nastiness. It's liberating, I promise!

Right back at you.

 

Look at his post, never even says he's a good player, just that the others are bad.

 

The highest "objectives" score on his team is 5000, the enemies 11400 followed by 10400, then 9900, 8500...

 

Finally a comparison of his team. Again he never stated he was the good player but he had 779,000 damage and a measily 1,400 objective points. Interesting enough...

 

Only 3 players on his team received more than him, while one falls 200k below his damage, and the rest don't breach 300k.

 

Of the players on his team receiving equal to or less than his objective points; not one of them broke 100k, and most are close to or under 50k.

 

So his team: Low damage, low objective points, no protection (gonna bet atleast one of those was an assassin with a taunt...). Only thing they managed was decent heals.

 

Other team...

do I understand it clearly then. if you had less dmg and a smaller margin of objective points than he had your bad?

so in this match how could my team Lose then? we had 91950 objective points all in all they had 84800

http://postimg.org/image/ju93kh87d/

and it was a close match but how could we lose to a "bad" team with less objective point?

 

Just so 8 pugs don't have to face them and get butt hurt for imagined advantages?

Really, which is it?

In this very thread you've said they have advantages, now they don't?

What's being sold is exactly what America sells to the rest of the world. Equal Opportunity.

It's a fine idea.. the opposite is the grim reality. Class Division is what I speak of. Pardon my political and sociological reference, but it's applicable. Essentially, the rich stay rich and the poor.. well.. they stay in the ghetto.

You can say," You're wrong. All opportunities are available to all people. You just have to go out and take them." I can tell you this is not the case, so don't delude yourself. We won't get into why (though I could write you a book and a couple dozen Theses), but just like in society.. those with an advantage will do ANYTHING to maintain said advantage, up to and including denying their existence.

Inevitably there are those who buy into the idea that no one is more advantaged that another, but those people are like sheep to the herder. There are players incapable of such advantages (in it's simplest definition... maybe they aren't of the same intelligence level you {impersonal} believe yourself to be?). Should you discount them as weak and "bad" (I'm looking at you, Cash)? No. You shouldn't.

You should be empathetic because we all started there, and if you say, "I had to take my licks and BY GOD I LURNT ME SUMTIN I TELL YA WHUT" you just sound like the crazy Uncle we all have

(BOAHH I WALKED UPHILL BOTH WAYS IN THE SNOW WITH NO SHOES OVER BROKEN GLASS AND HOT COALS TO GET TO WORK FOR A NICKEL A DAY AND I APPRECIATED THAT NICKEL)

Basically, don't pretend there are no advantages other than voicecomm to being in a Premade. You'd be lying.

Really, which is it?

 

In this very thread you've said they have advantages, now they don't?

 

What's being sold is exactly what America sells to the rest of the world. Equal Opportunity.

 

It's a fine idea.. the opposite is the grim reality. Class Division is what I speak of. Pardon my political and sociological reference, but it's applicable. Essentially, the rich stay rich and the poor.. well.. they stay in the ghetto.

 

You can say," You're wrong. All opportunities are available to all people. You just have to go out and take them." I can tell you this is not the case, so don't delude yourself. We won't get into why (though I could write you a book and a couple dozen Theses), but just like in society.. those with an advantage will do ANYTHING to maintain said advantage, up to and including denying their existence.

 

Inevitably there are those who buy into the idea that no one is more advantaged that another, but those people are like sheep to the herder. There are players incapable of such advantages (in it's simplest definition... maybe they aren't of the same intelligence level you {impersonal} believe yourself to be?). Should you discount them as weak and "bad" (I'm looking at you, Cash)? No. You shouldn't.

 

You should be empathetic because we all started there, and if you say, "I had to take my licks and BY GOD I LURNT ME SUMTIN I TELL YA WHUT" you just sound like the crazy Uncle we all have

 

(BOAHH I WALKED UPHILL BOTH WAYS IN THE SNOW WITH NO SHOES OVER BROKEN GLASS AND HOT COALS TO GET TO WORK FOR A NICKEL A DAY AND I APPRECIATED THAT NICKEL)

 

 

Basically, don't pretend there are no advantages other than voicecomm to being in a Premade. You'd be lying.

This is nothing like 99 percent and the one percent. Terrible analogy.

"You can say," You're wrong. All opportunities are available to all people. You just have to go out and take them." I can tell you this is not the case, so don't delude yourself. We won't get into why (though I could write you a book and a couple dozen Theses), but just like in society.. those with an advantage will do ANYTHING to maintain said advantage, up to and including denying their existence."

I read that and I just think logic and common sense have gone out of the window - this is a computer game, not a particularly difficult game to play either.

My mate said it best when he said forums are essentially grown men writing nasty messages to each other.

But I mean what next? Ghandi? Che Guevara? Some metaphor involving the third reich and evil premades?

Really, which is it?

 

In this very thread you've said they have advantages, now they don't?

 

What's being sold is exactly what America sells to the rest of the world. Equal Opportunity.

 

It's a fine idea.. the opposite is the grim reality. Class Division is what I speak of. Pardon my political and sociological reference, but it's applicable. Essentially, the rich stay rich and the poor.. well.. they stay in the ghetto.

 

You can say," You're wrong. All opportunities are available to all people. You just have to go out and take them." I can tell you this is not the case, so don't delude yourself. We won't get into why (though I could write you a book and a couple dozen Theses), but just like in society.. those with an advantage will do ANYTHING to maintain said advantage, up to and including denying their existence.

 

Inevitably there are those who buy into the idea that no one is more advantaged that another, but those people are like sheep to the herder. There are players incapable of such advantages (in it's simplest definition... maybe they aren't of the same intelligence level you {impersonal} believe yourself to be?). Should you discount them as weak and "bad" (I'm looking at you, Cash)? No. You shouldn't.

 

You should be empathetic because we all started there, and if you say, "I had to take my licks and BY GOD I LURNT ME SUMTIN I TELL YA WHUT" you just sound like the crazy Uncle we all have

 

(BOAHH I WALKED UPHILL BOTH WAYS IN THE SNOW WITH NO SHOES OVER BROKEN GLASS AND HOT COALS TO GET TO WORK FOR A NICKEL A DAY AND I APPRECIATED THAT NICKEL)

 

 

Basically, don't pretend there are no advantages other than voicecomm to being in a Premade. You'd be lying.

First of all - America is THE most un-equal nation in the whole World. There nowhere on Earth where equality is so non-existen as in America.

Second - We PUGs like to play casual and go vpv off and on as we please since itsuits our way of playin. If you have to find room in a group every time you want to pvp (and ahve a chance of winning) the pvp will take very, very long time to get in place and it wont be as sponanious as you want.

Third - Premades has HUGE advantages

They got voice over internet for Communication.

They have powerhealers that has expertise set on just one specific task -heal others. Not many PUGs has that expertise since they like to PVE and mix it with PVP. Therefore you might want a more mixed expertise then only healing others.

They have very good organisation and tactics set in advance. Everyone knows thier position and what they are supposed to do. You cant expect that from a team that has met for 90 sec Before a WZ.

They can focus all their firepower on one single target at once by voice comm. Its very hard trying do that by typing/Reading while fighting.

They have extraordniary gear due to all thier previous successes. This is not the case with a PUG team.

This is nothing like 99 percent and the one percent. Terrible analogy.

 

"You can say," You're wrong. All opportunities are available to all people. You just have to go out and take them." I can tell you this is not the case, so don't delude yourself. We won't get into why (though I could write you a book and a couple dozen Theses), but just like in society.. those with an advantage will do ANYTHING to maintain said advantage, up to and including denying their existence."

 

I read that and I just think logic and common sense have gone out of the window - this is a computer game, not a particularly difficult game to play either.

 

 

My mate said it best when he said forums are essentially grown men writing nasty messages to each other.

 

But I mean what next? Ghandi? Che Guevara? Some metaphor involving the third reich and evil premades?

Yeah, that analogy is a little out there. I do think there is a point in saying that some posters in this thread are afraid of losing the advantage they have, but won't come straight out and admit it.

Really, which is it?

 

In this very thread you've said they have advantages, now they don't?

 

Maverick, check my post. I said 4 friends. We've discussed the advantages of a highly competitive premade (and I think we've agreed the only one not obtainable by a PuG is voice chat, The rest are just unlikely.)

It's been part of my argument all along that the split queue option (the only way that there is a 100% No Premade vs. PuG ever chance excluding queue exploiting) hurts groups in general to weed out the Competitive Premades. When someone new comes in and posts:

Premade vs. Premade, PuG vs. PuG only! Or something to that effect (they didn't say that specifically, it was the gist of their post), they are not distinguishing between a Premade (as you and I refer to them) and 4 casual friends teaming up. Their not even distinguishing between groups of 2 or 3 and a Premade.

Once more, with the exception of voice chat (that not all groups have) there's no difference between 2-4 casuals in a group and 2-4 casual PuG's.

do I understand it clearly then. if you had less dmg and a smaller margin of objective points than he had your bad?

Nope, he might be bad too.

Are we really gonna go around about screen shots, for me making a point about Veriah's snarky comment about how Cash filtered the warzone by damage?

Nope, he might be bad too.

 

Are we really gonna go around about screen shots, for me making a point about Veriah's snarky comment about how Cash filtered the warzone by damage?

I could have done the same but I did not.

but you said his team were bad due "to less objective points and dmg than him" so the rep team I faced that they must have been bad due to your words, am I right? if you say no then your have no clue what you are talking about.

Yeah, that analogy is a little out there. I do think there is a point in saying that some posters in this thread are afraid of losing the advantage they have, but won't come straight out and admit it.

Show me the post in the last 50 pages by a poster who says: Keep Regular Warzones as is.

Then look at all the posts in the last 50 pages by posters who say: Let's get matchmaking in there, so people of equal competitive level/skill/attitude/ability/etc... face each other, rather than the current system that doesn't do anything to deter lopsided matches (for any reason.)

Finally, look at the number of posts in the last 50 pages by posters accusing player who say all of the above that say: Pfft, you want to PuGstomp!

It's getting really *********** frustrating to be accused and lied about.