First of all, I think you need to be very careful using The Force Unleashed as an example. Remember that the effects of the force in that series were greatly amplified. It's right in the title. It wasn't just Galen either. Although he is an exceptionally powerful wielder of the force, pretty much every force user in that series used the force casually at titanic levels of power.

The events of The Force Unleashed are cannon, but perhaps the details are a bit exaggerated. Leland Chee, I believe, once said that each medium is like looking at real events through a differently distorted lens. I believe this was in reference to the original Clone Wars Animated Series, in which Mace Windu took on an entire battalion of SBDs with just his fists and the force. Obviously what really happened that day was not Mace Windu imitating The Flash by machine gun punching 1000 SBDs into scrap.

If we must use The Force Unleashed as an example, we should use the events as described by the book, as they would be more grounded than the game. I read the books, but I don't remember how the fights were described. Further, even using the books, we should likely assume that the scale of the lightning wasn't quite as magnificent as portrayed, but the event of it effecting Vader would have still happened.

Next, in regards to Mace Windu, I don't know that I believe Sidious' lightening killed him instantly. Actually, many people aren't convinced it killed him at all. We don't see his death conclusively. If Darth Maul can come back from his defeat in the movies, Windu can survive that attack. Instead, what we see is Windu unbalanced by a one-two punch of being attacked by Anakin, then lightning and force blasted into the distance while he was off balance.

The lightning's effect on Sidious may be telling of the level of power in use at that moment, as well. I'm not sure the lightning itself caused Sidious' decay, it may have been drawing on the dark side that did that, but either way it speaks to an incredible level of power. He also kept the Jedi Order's premier combatant at bay with the force of the attack. It could be argued that Sidious' deformation was a ruse to bait sympathy from Anakin and the people of the Republic, however.

As for Luke, we know that the Emperor's stated purpose was to turn Luke to the dark side. Thus we can assume the level of lightning was at least not fatal in an immediate sense. We might assume that Sidious would prefer not to excessively damage his future apprentice. However, Sidious isn't one to make death threats idly, and he did tell Luke he would die for not slaying Vader. Also, Vader clearly feels his son is at immediate risk of death, and is moved to intervene. I take from this that the level of force in Sidious' attack was substantial, but only fatal in the longer term.

Even dealing with this lower level attack, Luke was effectively crippled. Granted, he was not fully trained to the level a knight of the old order would have been, and likely wasn't prepared for such an attack. Still, it says something that after being driven down by Luke, Vader is able to withstand a continuous assault of what would have to be Sidious' strongest lightning, hold onto him, move under his own power, and throw him into the reactor. Mace WIndu under similar circumstances was unable to defend himself from a force attack.

Also, Force Lightning clearly doesn't behave exactly the same as regular electricity, so it's exact effects on circuitry may be unknown. Force Lightning, for example, seeks it's target even over great distances. It does not seem to be drawn off to conductive surfaces. It can be drawn into a lightsaber, but this is likely a force technique of it's own, or perhaps a side effect of a lightsaber's containment field. When a lightsaber takes a hit from lightning, it's circuitry seems unaffected.

As such, we might assume that circuitry is damaged by direct hits from force lightning as it would be burned away, but it may not be drawn to, travel through and overload a circuit like normal electricity. This might in fact indicate that a mechanical being would be more resistant to the negative effects of a lightning attack, as their mechanical limbs might be capable of shutting down pain, which is a major factor in the stunning effect of the attack. The attack might also cause muscle spasms in biological limbs that might not be a problem for mechanical equivalents.

With that in mind, it might explain why Vader can fight through the attack without being crippled, but still comes away with damage having been done.

I don't think it is possible to separate Vader's ability to resist lightning and his suit's specific advantages and disadvantages without a direct canon source. The examples we have are all of the two of them together. We never see anyone else use Vader's suit, and indeed, the suit is so much a part of Vader, it may as well be considered an aspect of his being.

That said, I think we can say that Vader has a greater resistance to lightning as opposed to an unarmored opponent. Both basic electrical attacks and standard force lightning should be assumed to be less effective against Vader because of the additional layer of resistance offered by his armor. In the hands of a specialist like Galen or Sidious, Force Lightning can overcome this resistance and stun or damage Vader. Vader's suit should also be noted to have the disadvantage that if it does take significant damage, it's failing functions will impede Vader's ability to function himself.

First of all, I think you need to be very careful using The Force Unleashed as an example. Remember that the effects of the force in that series were greatly amplified. It's right in the title. It wasn't just Galen either. Although he is an exceptionally powerful wielder of the force, pretty much every force user in that series used the force casually at titanic levels of power.

As for Luke, we know that the Emperor's stated purpose was to turn Luke to the dark side. Thus we can assume the level of lightning was at least not fatal in an immediate sense. We might assume that Sidious would prefer not to excessively damage his future apprentice. However, Sidious isn't one to make death threats idly, and he did tell Luke he would die for not slaying Vader. Also, Vader clearly feels his son is at immediate risk of death, and is moved to intervene. I take from this that the level of force in Sidious' attack was substantial, but only fatal in the longer term.

 

Even dealing with this lower level attack, Luke was effectively crippled. Granted, he was not fully trained to the level a knight of the old order would have been, and likely wasn't prepared for such an attack. Still, it says something that after being driven down by Luke, Vader is able to withstand a continuous assault of what would have to be Sidious' strongest lightning, hold onto him, move under his own power, and throw him into the reactor. Mace WIndu under similar circumstances was unable to defend himself from a force attack.

But what's this about being crippled? How so? Luke may have suffered some long term joint pain but that didn't stop him from lugging an armored dead weight all the way to the hangar and become the most powerful Force user in existence. On the other hand, the only logical explanation for Vader being able to pick Sidious up and throw him down the reactor was sheer strength of will. The incidents on Kamino would suggest that he would have at least faltered after being subject to that level of voltage. So saying that his suit protected him from farm is simply impossible to hold.

I also don't think the circumstances with Windu were at all similar and I don't think a comparison can be made. Clearly it was the same level of voltage as both had their skeletons lit up, but Windu recieved the blast head on while Vader received brief sparks. Hence why his skeleton is only visible in brief flashes rather than a continual X-Ray effect. Which is why I believe Vader and Luke recieved the same amount of lightning, Luke's was a weaker but longer stream while Vader's was more powerful but much shorter and not full on.

And therefore, the disparity between the damage inflicted on them would indicate that a normal person is more resistant against lightning than Vader's suit. I mean, even if we accept that Vader received a higher voltage the disparity remains enormous. On one hand Luke seemed to suffer no immediate ill effects, and it was only a while after that a few chronic symptoms began to show through. On the other hand Vader's suit was irreparable and fatally damaged beyond repair, he was unable to stand without aid and had difficulty breathing, which without the dark side to sustain him led to his death. If Vader's suit really did over the resistance you suggest, he should not have died.

Also, Force Lightning clearly doesn't behave exactly the same as regular electricity, so it's exact effects on circuitry may be unknown. Force Lightning, for example, seeks it's target even over great distances. It does not seem to be drawn off to conductive surfaces. It can be drawn into a lightsaber, but this is likely a force technique of it's own, or perhaps a side effect of a lightsaber's containment field. When a lightsaber takes a hit from lightning, it's circuitry seems unaffected.

 

As such, we might assume that circuitry is damaged by direct hits from force lightning as it would be burned away, but it may not be drawn to, travel through and overload a circuit like normal electricity. This might in fact indicate that a mechanical being would be more resistant to the negative effects of a lightning attack, as their mechanical limbs might be capable of shutting down pain, which is a major factor in the stunning effect of the attack. The attack might also cause muscle spasms in biological limbs that might not be a problem for mechanical equivalents.

 

With that in mind, it might explain why Vader can fight through the attack without being crippled, but still comes away with damage having been done.

Prolonged exposure to intense electrical fields (such as a sustained current of Force lightning) caused most humanoids to experience sudden and massive calcification of their skeletal system; the abrupt drop in blood minerals provoked muscular micro-seizures all over the victim's body. ~ Wookieepedia

Note how Wookiee merely uses the effects of electrical fields on a person to describe the effects of Force lightining, indicating they are very similar in nature. I think the only real difference is that Force lightning can be controlled and directed which is why it would not be drawn to conductive surfaces en route to its victim. And really we have no reason to believe this is not the case. Sidious' Force lightning did extensive damage to Vader's suit, which is most noticeable in his changed breathing indicating his rebreather was fried. And this ultimately led to his death. And any source you will find will tell you this is the reason for his death.

And secondly on Kamino, when hit by lightning his body clearly spasms. And not just his biological body but his mechanical limbs also, if mechanical limbs are not effected as you say this would not have happened which in turn can only indicate that it was doing damage to his circuitry and wiring. In fact his suit actually emits sparks, now you might just say that that is the lightning but you won't find any other example of that happening in Star Wars lore. So I think making the assumption that Force lightning does not operate in the same way as lightning would create more problems than it solves.

I don't think it is possible to separate Vader's ability to resist lightning and his suit's specific advantages and disadvantages without a direct canon source. The examples we have are all of the two of them together. We never see anyone else use Vader's suit, and indeed, the suit is so much a part of Vader, it may as well be considered an aspect of his being.

 

That said, I think we can say that Vader has a greater resistance to lightning as opposed to an unarmored opponent. Both basic electrical attacks and standard force lightning should be assumed to be less effective against Vader because of the additional layer of resistance offered by his armor. In the hands of a specialist like Galen or Sidious, Force Lightning can overcome this resistance and stun or damage Vader. Vader's suit should also be noted to have the disadvantage that if it does take significant damage, it's failing functions will impede Vader's ability to function himself.

But yes, Vader and his suit are almost one and the same. However Vader for short periods can function without his suit through sheer strength of will. Which is why I attempted to separate the two.

Vader got hit with Chain Lightning after Palpatine popped Recklessness.

I don't know. I don't think Luke and Vader are accurate comparisons. Luke was attacked with lightning meant to torture and slowly kill him. Vader took the full power of Sidious' Force lightning.

 

A more accurate comparison would be Vader to Mace Windu. But whatever, I guess.

I'm mean really, just by comparing the two its obvious that while Sidious was emitting the same level of power, Vader was hit far less than Windu. Far far less.

I mean we should note that Vader's skeleton flashes once or twice, while Windu's is lit up like a Christmas tree. And Luke may not have been getting unlimited power, but he wasn't exactly laughing. In the end this is Darth Sidious' lightning we are talking about here.

I would just like to point out something about the Luke example. We don't see it in the film, but Luke was in pain after the lighting he took. In fact, in The Truce at Bakura novel, it clearly states that he suffers from long term damage to his bones because of Sid's Force Lightning, causing lots of pain and fatigue. Luke we ordered to remain off his feet and even underwent several Bacta treatments to try and repair the damage. That damage took a long time to heal and he still never fully healed from it. And yes, Aurbere, I believe you are correct about him now being more susceptible to lightning attacks as a result. Good thing he knows how to use that lightsaber so well.

 

Luke didn't just shrug it off with no ill effects, as you suggest, Beni. He suffered greatly and for a long time from it. We just do not see it in the film. If Sidious had hit Luke with a full powered blast it would have killed him. We all know he was just torturing the man to death, making it as slow and painful as possible. Truce at Bakura shows just how much Luke suffered from that torture.

Exactly. Even by the time Truce at Bakura was over he STILL wasn't fully healed. Luke was in a lot of pain almost the entire book. Bacta and using the force is what sustained him during the bakura fighting.

The lightning almost certainly fried Vader's suit, but It's not what killed him. Quite the contrary, Vader was almost unphased by the lightning as he lifted and carried Sidious. I believe it really was the abandonment of the dark side that killed Vader. Lightning though...after all these years that man has surely developed an immunity to lightning. Heck you could almost make a drinking game out of how many times he gets shocked in TCW.

One does not simply 'develop a resistance to lightning'. On the contrary, the more times you get shocked, the weaker you become. Also the fact Vader was unphased by Sidious' lightning makes little sense, as if all other circumstance he was. Its either a continuity error or Vader using the power of love. That said once he dropped him he completely collapsed and his suit was ruined. But no it was not what killed him, but remember this is Vader's Suit, not Vader.

One thing I would say about Vader - is That virtually everyone else that I have seen be hit with Force Lightning Instantly Spasms and is incapacitated/goes flying etc (well definitely with Sidious's Lightning).

The Fact that Vader was able to pick Sidious up - walk with him - and throw him down the bottomless shaft while simultaneously being hit by the Lightning is an impressive feat (in fact it would be hard of me to think of anyone besides Vader being able to do that and ironically that could have possibly been because of the Armour)

The caveat to that - is that the Armour cannot 'heal' like a person so damage would have to be repaired at a facility - so the main issue would be with the recovery.

Personally I don't think Lightning should be held as a particular weakness as such to Vader - more than damage to the suit cannot be healed and has to be repaired - but the suit could be damaged in other ways too which would still essentially be the same thing. What I am saying that overall it is the inability to heal the suit that could be seen as a weakness of Vader Rather than the Force Lightning damage type - if he was hit by enough damage to destroy his life support systems whether it be by Saber, Telekinesis, Lightning or whatever then the overall effect will be pretty much exactly the same.

Also - Sidious does have arguably the most Powerful Lightning ever - and Vader's Saber hand was chopped off at the time otherwise, he may have just stabbed Sidious in the back in that situation....

So in a fight Matchup Vader will be armed and would be able to use his Saber to deflect Lightning like anyone else (he may even possibly be able to deflect it by hand if he is prepared).

If We are to even use Galen Marek game mechanics in this argument - Then I would say Lightning is a Huge Part of Starkiller's fighting arsenal anyway and Lightning was pretty instrumental in him beating Everyone and not Just Vader - in fact it took a lot more effort for him to beat Vader than he did others...

One thing I would say about Vader - is That virtually everyone else that I have seen be hit with Force Lightning Instantly Spasms and is incapacitated/goes flying etc (well definitely with Sidious's Lightning).

 

The Fact that Vader was able to pick Sidious up - walk with him - and throw him down the bottomless shaft while simultaneously being hit by the Lightning is an impressive feat (in fact it would be hard of me to think of anyone besides Vader being able to do that and ironically that could have possibly been because of the Armour)

 

The caveat to that - is that the Armour cannot 'heal' like a person so damage would have to be repaired at a facility - so the main issue would be with the recovery.

 

Personally I don't think Lightning should be held as a particular weakness as such to Vader - more than damage to the suit cannot be healed and has to be repaired - but the suit could be damaged in other ways too which would still essentially be the same thing. What I am saying that overall it is the inability to heal the suit that could be seen as a weakness of Vader Rather than the Force Lightning damage type - if he was hit by enough damage to destroy his life support systems whether it be by Saber, Telekinesis, Lightning or whatever then the overall effect will be pretty much exactly the same.

 

Also - Sidious does have arguably the most Powerful Lightning ever - and Vader's Saber hand was chopped off at the time otherwise, he may have just stabbed Sidious in the back in that situation....

 

So in a fight Matchup Vader will be armed and would be able to use his Saber to deflect Lightning like anyone else (he may even possibly be able to deflect it by hand if he is prepared).

If We are to even use Galen Marek game mechanics in this argument - Then I would say Lightning is a Huge Part of Starkiller's fighting arsenal anyway and Lightning was pretty instrumental in him beating Everyone and not Just Vader - in fact it took a lot more effort for him to beat Vader than he did others...

So while know lightning is not one of Vader's glaring weaknesses, it is a greater weakness than any Force-wielding biological opponent, that cannot be denied.

I'm also just wondering are you in favor of lightning or do you not like vader because I understand how you counter staments but the way you say(well type) it it seems like you specificlly want and expected everyone to say lightning

I have no personal vendetta against Vader, this is merely a response to the fallacious assumption that Vader is somehow resistant to such attacks.

I think the reason why vader died, is a combination of things. If you ever read 'shadows of the empire' vader was attempting to be come strong enough in the force, so angry all the time that he could function without his suit. And for short periods of time, he could.

But if you ever read the book about vader that happens right after SW ep III during a light saber duel, it's confirmed that the chest monitor on his front is quite fragile.

I think palpatine hurt him physically with force lightning like he hurt luke but I don't think it was the lightning alone that killed him.

It was a combination of letting go of the dark side, his chest monitoring piece being fried, and wounds sustained from force lighting which did Vader in. Not just one thing.

Couldn't a lightsaber absorb sith lightning?

Yes...

walls and wall, and walls of endless text over this...

Vader picked up sidious to save his son, the lightning hit him, his life support function was DAMAGED" (not destroyed) hence the labored breathing right the fall, Vader would have lived (painfully, but possible) he suffered suvier injury and we as an audience knows his breathing thing is broke. vader asks luke to take his mask off, who is already having a hard time breathing. he dies maybe a minute or two afterwards.

Vader died there because the plot required it.

just like these video games and other irrelevant stories that didn't happen in the films, vader can't die or be killed by anything that happens because the plot requires him to survive, other wise you create a time paradox..

this is why I disapprove of the extended fan universe

this is why I disapprove of the extended fan universe

 

this is why I disapprove of the extended fan universe

Also its not a fan universe, its all one connected universe. Stories written by actual authors to expand on SWU, so...its not something by just fans.

Wait all this time for only 2 replies quoting only my last sarcastic, irrelevant, last statement. I have other names and phrases for it too, I was going to say the European universe. there's also the EWww universe, and like I said before, the extended faniverse. Pay attention to that instead of acknowledging the rest of the post that ended all arguments about this.

gg

Wait all this time for only 2 replies quoting only my last sarcastic, irrelevant, last statement. I have other names and phrases for it too, I was going to say the European universe. there's also the EWww universe, and like I said before, the extended faniverse. Pay attention to that instead of acknowledging the rest of the post that ended all arguments about this.

 

gg

Anyway, you can't expect to come out and say that you don't like the EU on a forum dedicated to an EU game as well as topics largely concerning the EU itself, without raising some eyebrows.

Consider my eyebrows raised.

I thought this debate was settled a long time ago.

Horray for nercoing! We seem to have powerful necromancers here.

Horray for nercoing! We seem to have powerful necromancers here.

doesn't apply

necro requires at least more than a month or more from the last poster

doesn't apply

 

 

necro requires at least more than a month or more from the last poster

The debate was still settled already.

doesn't apply

 

 

necro requires at least more than a month or more from the last poster