)I cant believe the bs from softcore pvpers on this post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=609933

Whoever keeps saying that pvpers depend on superior gear to feel powerful and smash freshies just doesn't get it...

Pvers start out weak doing loads of hm fps, dailies, and pug sm ops so the can improve gear and skill so they can eventually be invited to harder ops with people who have done the same thing. The high end pver rarely has to pug. All this character building unlocks a more sophisticated game experience.

Pvpers do the same thing. They gear to be a good competitor. They pvp constantly and thru the grind they become better at what they enjoy. Eventually they are able to defeat harder opponents and do ranked with some of the best.

That would be understandable if high end pvpers actually played better than lower level. There are some that do but very very few. I don't mind the grind if it wasn't torture to have some idiot just standing taking massive amounts of dmg and not really doing anything then after 10 sec of me whaling on him/her finally figure how to turn ur toon around and kill me in 2-3 hits. I want to reach that level that he/she is at but it shoudnt be totture to do so. Sp the new bolster in 2.0 will put skill ahead of someone who spends all day grinding war zones not really learning anything from it. And if u say ur experience gives you skill then there shouldn't be any problem for you to easily take out a newly bolstered player with your "skill" .

I don't know. I have been struggling with if I even care about PvP in this game anymore. At least as far as warzones goes. I almost feel like I just want to grind them out to get the gear just so I am equipped for the rare open world PvP, where bolster isn't going to help you anyway.

I think it (the bolster system) is complete BS. I worked my *** off for my PVP gear, and it pisses me off to no end that I am hearing someone will get bolstered up to WH or w/e . I had to grind up from recruit gear and everyone else should have to as well. For Ranked WZ there should be NO BOLSTER AT ALL, if they want to bolster people up to recruit - then just give everyone recruit (like they do) and call it a day - I say get rid of it entirely. I also don't think i should be able to go into any high level Operations with my PVP gear and do nearly as well as someone with PVEgear on. I don't ***** about this, and it doesn't bother me that in the new "operations" I won't be able to do the content in my PVP gear -- it infuriates me to no end that the PVEers are ************ b/c they get 3 shot - fk them! If i wannna do operations then i will grind the gear - if you wannna do PVP then GRIND THE GEAR!

I've done very little PvP, but my wife likes to do Warzones, so we're trying to wrap our heads around current and upcoming (2.0) gearing. I always thought it was odd that PvP'rs had to gimp their primary and other secondary stats to get gear with Expertise. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that Expertise is not an "insta-win" stat intended to give PvP grinders an overwhelming advantage over recruit PvP'rs or casuals in PvE gear, but instead that Expertise is a necessary mechanic to modify how damage, defense and healing normally scale/work in a PvE mob/boss environment over to how they need to scale/work in a PvP environment.

 

Assuming that's correct, I've never understood why Expertise wasn't given its own point budget and placed on all gear . (The higher the tier fo gear, the better the Expertise bump, as is the case with gear improvement for any other stat.) IMO, whether you persue gear progression via end-game PvP or end-game PvE material shouldn't matter. Only the relative accomplishment level should matter (e.g. clearing a NiM boss or equivalent ranked warzone performance). Either way (or in some combination) you'd get progressively better gear, equally useful in either environment. That would allow primarily PvP gamers to hop into the occasional Op without being self-conscious about their stats, and vice-versa for PvE players engaging in occasional PvP.

 

I hear that in 2.0 the amount of Expertise on gear (or individual mods) will no longer count against the total amount of primary/secondary stats, which seems to be a step in the right direction. But it seems like BW still wants folks to have two sets of gear from two distinct/separate tiers of gear, one for each environment. Maybe the intention behind separate gear sets is merely to require double the grind-time, but it just seems odd to me. Am I missing something?

 

I read somewhere that PvE gear will get "bolstered" to compensate for lack of Expertise on our side, but is there something equivalent to help out the folks in PvP gear who might want to come raiding with us on occasion? Having Expertise no longer gimp other stats should help a lot, but I hear that level 72 gear is Ops-drop only.

I think it (the bolster system) is complete BS. I worked my *** off for my PVP gear, and it pisses me off to no end that I am hearing someone will get bolstered up to WH or w/e . I had to grind up from recruit gear and everyone else should have to as well. For Ranked WZ there should be NO BOLSTER AT ALL, if they want to bolster people up to recruit - then just give everyone recruit (like they do) and call it a day - I say get rid of it entirely. I also don't think i should be able to go into any high level Operations with my PVP gear and do nearly as well as someone with PVEgear on. I don't ***** about this, and it doesn't bother me that in the new "operations" I won't be able to do the content in my PVP gear -- it infuriates me to no end that the PVEers are ************ b/c they get 3 shot - fk them! If i wannna do operations then i will grind the gear - if you wannna do PVP then GRIND THE GEAR!

 

Feel better? Here, this should help.

Edited April 2, 2013 by cycao

That would be understandable if high end pvpers actually played better than lower level. There are some that do but very very few. I don't mind the grind if it wasn't torture to have some idiot just standing taking massive amounts of dmg and not really doing anything then after 10 sec of me whaling on him/her finally figure how to turn ur toon around and kill me in 2-3 hits. I want to reach that level that he/she is at but it shoudnt be totture to do so. Sp the new bolster in 2.0 will put skill ahead of someone who spends all day grinding war zones not really learning anything from it. And if u say ur experience gives you skill then there shouldn't be any problem for you to easily take out a newly bolstered player with your "skill" .

 

Bolster is stupid. Period..

 

Everyone has to grind for their gear, I'm doing it on my most recent 50. Does it suck to face an idiot that can't play their class and who you should beat, but he outgears and kills you? Absolutely. But hey, in a couple of days I'll be geared up and with a smaller gear gap between me and him which means I'll win this time.

 

This is an MMO, the grind is much better than it was before and needs no change; and definitely NO BOLSTER!!!

 

Skill matters when there is a lesser gear gap. And this is an MMO, take a bite of the sh*t sandwich and ride the grind.

 

 

 

 

Welcome to the suck...

Edited April 2, 2013 by LanceCorporalDan

I think it (the bolster system) is complete BS. I worked my *** off for my PVP gear, and it pisses me off to no end that I am hearing someone will get bolstered up to WH or w/e . I had to grind up from recruit gear and everyone else should have to as well. For Ranked WZ there should be NO BOLSTER AT ALL, if they want to bolster people up to recruit - then just give everyone recruit (like they do) and call it a day - I say get rid of it entirely. I also don't think i should be able to go into any high level Operations with my PVP gear and do nearly as well as someone with PVEgear on. I don't ***** about this, and it doesn't bother me that in the new "operations" I won't be able to do the content in my PVP gear -- it infuriates me to no end that the PVEers are ************ b/c they get 3 shot - fk them! If i wannna do operations then i will grind the gear - if you wannna do PVP then GRIND THE GEAR!

 

2 many ************'s

I like it as a hardcore pvper, it encourages more participation (I prefer the GW2 gearing model anyways). PVP should be about skill and good fighting. If you really need to feel that your gear is advantage you can always world pvp =)

I think it (the bolster system) is complete BS. I worked my *** off for my PVP gear, and it pisses me off to no end that I am hearing someone will get bolstered up to WH or w/e . I had to grind up from recruit gear and everyone else should have to as well. For Ranked WZ there should be NO BOLSTER AT ALL, if they want to bolster people up to recruit - then just give everyone recruit (like they do) and call it a day - I say get rid of it entirely. I also don't think i should be able to go into any high level Operations with my PVP gear and do nearly as well as someone with PVEgear on. I don't ***** about this, and it doesn't bother me that in the new "operations" I won't be able to do the content in my PVP gear -- it infuriates me to no end that the PVEers are ************ b/c they get 3 shot - fk them! If i wannna do operations then i will grind the gear - if you wannna do PVP then GRIND THE GEAR!

 

If everyone who grinds out gear is as angry as you are, doesn't it make sense to minimize the impact gear plays?

 

I'm glad it's gone.

I like it as a hardcore pvper, it encourages more participation (I prefer the GW2 gearing model anyways). PVP should be about skill and good fighting. If you really need to feel that your gear is advantage you can always world pvp =)

 

This, I'd much rather know I outplayed rather than outgeared someone.

The challenge for me is to beat them, not their gear.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Elegances

Basically they are making this about skill now and less about gear but don't be fooled, a good pvper in bis is still going to roll you as a bolstered person. At least now the folks with gear who only had that going for them will run a higher risk of getting rolled by a skilled bolstered person. To me anything that gets more people involved in pvp and rewarding them with a enjoyable experience the better. Pvp has always been more fun when you had to think to beat someone and not just wield a bigger stick.

Feel better? Here, this should help.

 

Personally it doesn't bother me since i pvp for the fun of pvp...but i do feel like pretty much 50/50 likes/hates this concept. And guess what, if they keep doing changes to pvp that upsets about 50% of the pvpers every other month, you will be looking at this.

Personally it doesn't bother me since i pvp for the fun of pvp...but i do feel like pretty much 50/50 likes/hates this concept. And guess what, if they keep doing changes to pvp that upsets about 50% of the pvpers every other month, you will be looking at this.

 

This is an MMO, changes are bound to happen that are going to upset people. Acting like a child and ranting on a gaming forum is not the way to address anything you want to get attention to which is what people in this thread are doing. I am more than ok with this change assuming that they get bolster to work as they intend it to and this is coming from someone who has PvPed since day one and have gone through every single gear grind (F(_)cking rng bag system) and am looking forward to a more skill based PvP...

 

 

...and I am looking forward to gear vs skill threads coming to an end so we can focus everything onto the "premade problem".

This is an MMO, changes are bound to happen that are going to upset people. Acting like a child and ranting on a gaming forum is not the way to address anything you want to get attention to which is what people in this thread are doing. I am more than ok with this change assuming that they get bolster to work as they intend it to and this is coming from someone who has PvPed since day one and have gone through every single gear grind (F(_)cking rng bag system) and am looking forward to a more skill based PvP...

 

 

...and I am looking forward to gear vs skill threads coming to an end so we can focus everything onto the "premade problem".

 

Yeah, i personally agree with you - though i have to say i think they've been doing these "changes" to various aspects of our pvp quite too frequently. I think progression is a good thing, i think grinds can be fun - but it shouldn't compromise skill vs skill.

Wait.. what?

I must've missed this part..

 

Bolster in 2.0 makes all gear the equivalent of top-end PvP gear?

 

Surely the gear must help somewhat, If I feel i'm a competent PvPer and have best gear I'm going to have an advantage over someone with PvE gear?

Edited April 2, 2013 by WaldoA

With bolster, why PvP at all? There is nothing to gain anymore...

No, Bolster does not give you stats equivilent to top-end gear. It gives you stats roughly equal to or slightly better than current recruit. So slightly less than War Hero stats, even if you go in naked, so top-end gear will still have a 1-3% advantage. It just narrows the gap so that someone who comes in in full Columi isn't exploding in 2 hits.

Wait.. what?

I must've missed this part..

 

Bolster in 2.0 makes all gear the equivalent of top-end PvP gear?

 

Surely the gear must help somewhat, If I feel i'm a competent PvPer and have best gear I'm going to have an advantage over someone with PvE gear?

 

At one point, on the PTS, you could queue up naked and have stats comparable to the best PvP gear. I don't think it will hit live like this though. The advantage should still be there, it just won't be as pronounced as it is currently.

At one point, on the PTS, you could queue up naked and have stats comparable to the best PvP gear. I don't think it will hit live like this though. The advantage should still be there, it just won't be as pronounced as it is currently.

 

This isn't true, people who had fully optimized and augmented conqueror gear on the pts had much higher stats than people with no gear on.

 

No gear was better than level 50 gear though, no idea if its going to remain that way (I really hope not)

This isn't true, people who had fully optimized and augmented conqueror gear on the pts had much higher stats than people with no gear on.

 

No gear was better than level 50 gear though, no idea if its going to remain that way (I really hope not)

 

Oh come on you know you cant wait to see all those body type 4 vanguards jumping all around you in their dirty underwear. Or better the ripple of all that flesh as the naked smash monkeys crash down on you lol ok now I gotta burn that image out of my mind.

Oh come on you know you cant wait to see all those body type 4 vanguards jumping all around you in their dirty underwear. Or better the ripple of all that flesh as the naked smash monkeys crash down on you lol ok now I gotta burn that image out of my mind.

 

Body type 4 should give a 3% bonus to smash damage. plus it should shake the camera of anybody nearby.

With bolster, why PvP at all? There is nothing to gain anymore...

 

If the only reason you PvP is to make numbers on your stat sheet bigger, then you missed the point. The reward is only a part of the fun, it's not the fun. I PvP because it is an engaging form of recreation. Back in the 90s I played Street Fighter against my college buddies for hours for nothing more than bragging rights and a way to avoid studying. MMOs have been a great evolution to gaming, but the reward pellet mentality is out of hand.

Bolster should not exist for level 55 WZs.

This is an MMO, changes are bound to happen that are going to upset people. Acting like a child and ranting on a gaming forum is not the way to address anything you want to get attention to which is what people in this thread are doing. I am more than ok with this change assuming that they get bolster to work as they intend it to and this is coming from someone who has PvPed since day one and have gone through every single gear grind (F(_)cking rng bag system) and am looking forward to a more skill based PvP...

 

 

...and I am looking forward to gear vs skill threads coming to an end so we can focus everything onto the "premade problem".

 

Not exactly....If bolster holds true all it will do is to pefectly show which classes totally suck in pvp, which classes are actually OP, and which classes are fubar, from balance, spec, and design standpoint. The argument of "Its your gear, of course your going to suck" isnt going to hold anymore.

 

When the hoards of dps merc/commando, dps sorcerors and others who think thier class is gimped in pvp start crying about the entire class is the suck in pvp and not even the best of them can get on a rated team to save thier life...no longer can anyone claim its thier gear. Thats all this really cements.