hmm. It's possible that Angral was unaware of this, but that was the Emperor's use of Angral. I am still unsure that the plan existed at that point, but if it did, that's a possible explanation.

 

For the Emperor, yes. For Angral, his sole agenda was revenge, as far as I can tell. Depending on if my understanding of the force ritual and the thing with Revan is correct. I'm trying to confirm this, but most of the videos dealing with this are over 20 minutes long.

The way I see it, the fabric of SWToR is one large piece, written as a whole. There are several ways to interpret the canon, several of which make sense, from the wholeness standpoint, and some capitalizing no implied plot holes.

Bioware writers are professionals, not your average fanfic crew. Pretty sure they kept the greater picture in mind when they wrote and rehashed the canon to fit together, to make it consistent.

It looks as though there are slight conflicts in the canon of the story, but if I ignore the Revan thing

However, at the End of Act 2:

I think that we're talking about maybe 20 million or so, and so perhaps that explains why that situation wasn't used for the ritual. I think you might be right on at least these two points.

I don't think that we can be sure Angral and Tarnis had inherently destructive plans for the planet prison, or that they were initially part of the Emperor's plans.

It looks as though there are slight conflicts in the canon of the story, but if I ignore the Revan thing

 

 

According to Scourge the Emperor has been planning this for centuries, and the renewed war is only a diversion.

 

 

However, at the End of Act 2:

 

 

Scourge says that "a great sacrifice is necessary for the ritual to begin. Billions of simultaneous deaths."

 

 

I think that we're talking about maybe 20 million or so, and so perhaps that explains why that situation wasn't used for the ritual. I think you might be right on at least these two points.

 

I don't think that we can be sure Angral and Tarnis had inherently destructive plans for the planet prison, or that they were initially part of the Emperor's plans.

I see no contradiction there. The genocides were supposed to be triggered in a rapid succession. But the Knight stopped them. Why weren't they all triggered preemptively when the Emperor/his minions caught wind of the Knight? He got there too fast. Preparations were not yet complete. Belsavis seemed to be the closest to completion, and the Knight caught up on the death cult on their way to Belsavis core.

Huh. Now the impression I got was that the Emperor had multiple plans in motion for Chapter 3 as a failsafe against the Jedi Knight in case they stopped one or two, as opposed to the Emperor needed all of the plans to go off for the ritual to work.

And the contradiction/ issue with canon I was mentioning is that Revan thing. There's some long game going on with Scourge.

Since this is asking about player characters, I'm inclinded to think the title goes to the JK/SW/JC in a three way tie.

Lore wise, half the classes are not force sensative, and even come out and basically say "Oh great...a force user...I'm probably screwed."

I don't add in the SI with the other three, as I don't recall (and I could have just forgotten, as it's been a while) it being stated, unlike the other three, as them being so powerful in the force.

Now with the force spirits in play, the SI might be up there, but I believe there was an option to kick them all out/let them go (my SI kept them all in against what she said, but the one that said, "We made a pact that can not be broken!" and left), so I'm guessing there was an option to kick them all out?

But for SW universe, those three are said to be the best in the force, so it's likely a three way tie at this time, untill a later generation at any rate.

I agree with the Knight, Consular, Warrior, and Inquisitor all being tied as far as Force-sensitives go. And the Trooper, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and Imperial Agent are all supposed to be the best of the best in their own professions too.

Lore-wise, as opposed to gameplay-wise, I think the stance is pretty much "everyone", as everyone has feats they can throw around that pump them up to be something really special. I think that you can't really say that if any two of the classes walked into a room lore-wise, you could really predict who'd be able to beat who easily. It's not really simple.

Gameplay-wise, they have to balance the classes against each other. But lore-wise? There's no tank, no healer, no DPS in the lore. In the lore, you just have eight people who are very, very good at what they do, with no way to tell who's better really.... if there even is any one person who's better, which might not even the case, as that would probably upset seven-eighths of the player base if they came out and said "this class is the biggest buttkicker of the lot, the rest of you deal with it".

I guess that doesn't make for a very exciting thread though, does it? The fact that there's in all likelihood probably no singular top dog.

i'm still sticking with the warrior being the strongest.

I agree with the Knight, Consular, Warrior, and Inquisitor all being tied as far as Force-sensitives go. And the Trooper, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and Imperial Agent are all supposed to be the best of the best in their own professions too.

 

Lore-wise, as opposed to gameplay-wise, I think the stance is pretty much "everyone", as everyone has feats they can throw around that pump them up to be something really special. I think that you can't really say that if any two of the classes walked into a room lore-wise, you could really predict who'd be able to beat who easily. It's not really simple.

 

Gameplay-wise, they have to balance the classes against each other. But lore-wise? There's no tank, no healer, no DPS in the lore. In the lore, you just have eight people who are very, very good at what they do, with no way to tell who's better really.... if there even is any one person who's better, which might not even the case, as that would probably upset seven-eighths of the player base if they came out and said "this class is the biggest buttkicker of the lot, the rest of you deal with it".

 

I guess that doesn't make for a very exciting thread though, does it? The fact that there's in all likelihood probably no singular top dog.

I'll have to agree, that if they came out and said it for the lore-wise angle, that would likely get some players in a tizzy. But I disagree with them all being the top.

SW lore, force users have the edge. If all they did was combat, then no, but it's not all that the characters do. But yes, the other non force using classes are supposed to be the top of their field. You're not just any Trooper, you're the shining example of what a Trooper is supposed to be!

Gameplay wise, yeah, while they may not get there (no idea), equal, the playerbase wouldn't have a playerbase (probably) if it kept it to the force users being as good as they're supposed to be.

i'm still sticking with the warrior being the strongest.

 

she kills a voice just like the knight does, but this voice is controlled by a being just as powerful as the emperor himself, WITH the emperor's power. that alone should put the warrior above almost all other star wars characters out there. that might even be closing in on yoda.

Though I'm sure any of the classes would have if they were given the option

 

Power wise I have already repeated many times people seem to overvalue Emperor Wrath status. It does not give you power over Dark Council as Darth Marr bluntly tells you at the end of Act III. On other hand Dark Council is divided to spheres so while as whole Dark Council has much more power than Wrath, piece of it is much closer. Powerbase wise Inquisitor has fleet which beats anything Warrior has.

It does in a way.

The Dark Council still answers to the emperor and he has the power to order a purge, meaning he can still kill them all and no one would question it, however it most likely would have to be under the emperors orders and not his own.

It does in a way.

The Dark Council still answers to the emperor and he has the power to order a purge, meaning he can still kill them all and no one would question it, however it most likely would have to be under the emperors orders and not his own.

Exactly, the Emperor, not the Wrath of the Emperor, but the Emperor himself, the Wrath just does what the Emperor tells them to do, the Emperor's Wrath has no real power at all, where as the Dark Council commands entire pieces of the Empire each.

He just stands there and lets you do it. It was a great line for my SW tho "Just shut up and die already." But it was more of a the voice being wanting to die.

 

Also, SW didn't defeat the emperor, JK did.

 

 

Though I'm sure any of the classes would have if they were given the option

yes, he lets you kill him. but that is after you defeat him after sel-makor takes over his body by force. you're facing the full might of the emperor because sel-makor takes over the body and not even the emperor is strong enough to fully resist him. even sel-makor alone is a feat equaling the knight's defeat of the emperor, because he's easily equal to or maybe even stronger than the emperor.

It's made pretty explicit that the Emperor's Will is powerless and was placed into a trap by Baras, one that stripped him of all his power, to the point where he couldn't even communicate with his inner circle, so your assertion that the Warrior fought both the power of Sel-Makor and the Emperor is hogwash.

i'll be going through there again on a warrior, but it'll be a while. so any links to the statements would be helpful.

Well, frankly, I don't think the Knight doesn't even need to be listed, because he's pretty much outside of competition, being his own story's Deus Ex Machina. Very hard to properly evaluate the power level of a character who practically has plot armour, aside for a plot-specific twist where he isn't meant to overcome the challenge. He seems to be positioned like his cause is just and right, and because of that, he can't lose (within story, at least). I understand that "black-and-white" classic high fantasy hero experience this may have been the point of writing, but it came off a bit cheesy. Playing Dark-ish (avoiding Tourette's moments) does alleviate this a little, but the general vector remains unchanged.

Writing-wise, the Warrior is much more convincing in this regard. He just goes in, overcomes impossible challenges, buying victory with his own blood and sweat without the Knight's "clean" "invincible action hero/Chosen One" feel to him. All this while bragging about his own invincibility. But the character himself seems to be aware that he is, in fact, not unbeatable (the Samurai-ish sub-theme can be played with "If I die, I die" plot choices) - and that's what makes him even stronger.

But that's just my observation from completing both stories several times, once per alignment, plus neutral variations - feel free to disagree. Hard to explain - it's a combination of voice acting, character animations, cutscenes and general storyline that gave me this experience.

Well, frankly, I don't think the Knight doesn't even need to be listed, because he's pretty much outside of competition, being his own story's Deus Ex Machina. Very hard to properly evaluate the power level of a character who practically has plot armour, aside for a plot-specific twist where he isn't meant to overcome the challenge. He seems to be positioned like his cause is just and right, and because of that, he can't lose (within story, at least). I understand that "black-and-white" classic high fantasy hero experience this may have been the point of writing, but it came off a bit cheesy. Playing Dark-ish (avoiding Tourette's moments) does alleviate this a little, but the general vector remains unchanged.

 

Writing-wise, the Warrior is much more convincing in this regard. He just goes in, overcomes impossible challenges, buying victory with his own blood and sweat without the Knight's "clean" "invincible action hero/Chosen One" feel to him. All this while bragging about his own invincibility. But the character himself seems to be aware that he is, in fact, not unbeatable (the Samurai-ish sub-theme can be played with "If I die, I die" plot choices) - and that's what makes him even stronger.

 

But that's just my observation from completing both stories several times, once per alignment, plus neutral variations - feel free to disagree. Hard to explain - it's a combination of voice acting, character animations, cutscenes and general storyline that gave me this experience.

I don't know. All the classes seem to have plot armor. But this is only speaking of 5 classes above level 45 (SI, BH, SM, SW, and JK).

With the JK, in the vision on Voss, the Emporer even states the JK really is that powerful.

Haven't gotten the JC up far enough yet, but it's been the JK, SW, and the JC who seem to have the "Most powerful" attached to them. SI I don't recall seeing such a reference, but that could be because of their slave background.

Lore wise, powerful is going to favor the force users. Gameplay wise, it's always going to be a toss up, as they'll never allow one class to be that far ahead of the others.

Lore wise, powerful is going to favor the force users. Gameplay wise, it's always going to be a toss up, as they'll never allow one class to be that far ahead of the others.

Except when they do

At least according to PvP forums. A lot of people may be exaggerating, but there's no smoke without fire.

Except when they do

 

At least according to PvP forums. A lot of people may be exaggerating, but there's no smoke without fire.

Eeeh, in PvP there is tons of smoke without fire... even in games where the classes are 100% balanced, people will whine about how the other side is better simply because their ego cannot handle losing every now and then.

Actuall had my friend whining about this in counter strike of all things, he whined about how he was always getting killed by the M4, but when he actully started taking score it turned out he was getting killed by thee other guns more often, its just that he noticed the M4 more.

I think Nox would be more powerful, considering all the ghosts, and the whole force-walking thing, I doubt getting stabbed would kill him.

And this is coming from a guy who is firmly in the "Jedi" camp

People say that the SI isn't as powerful as the others because their power is boosted by the force ghosts so it's not their OWN power. But the thing is, they couldn't even do that if they didn't have a unique and rare force ability to begin with. One that is powerful enough that it provides functional immortality without any body surfing or planet killing. Other classes draw on ambient force energy, but the SI can actually draw upon and summon SENTIENT and coherent force energy, and add that energy to their own, and get more powerful every time.

And that's without considering that they get their own fleet, and a superweapon, and basically awe a council of class supremacists who are the law makers and policy setters of an entire Empire into accepting them, a former slave.

The SI is very powerful in terms of the lore just on the merits of the force abilities. It's just that in this crazy universe, somehow lightsaber skills can compare with powers like that just on the basis of the opposition in each class story.

And yes, I'm saying this despite what I have said about the Jedi Knight, which I still think is valid, and which I say even though the Knight is the only class I've played to 50.

Shouldn't the Imperial Agent be up there with the Jedi Counsular and SI?

Which then is the bigger loss to the Empire the Emperor or the Children? Since the loss of the Children is the main accomplishment of the Consular. I do agree that the Consular is above the SI.

Actually, I'd argue that the victory over the Children is the least impressive of the achievements of the JC in Act 3 -- the Supreme Chancellor basically says as much in her speech at the end of the Act. The JC's other planetary quests in Act 3 were what made the victory on Corellia possible, which breaks the back of the Imperial offensive and saves the Republic. Sure, the JC doesn't do it alone, but that's the whole point -- the JC is all about helping those around him/her do things they couldn't have done otherwise.

Lastly, I'll point out that the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy are routinely and repeatedly surprised by what you're able to accomplish as the JC. This conversation repeats over and over through the JC's class story:

Jedi Master/Member of Jedi Council: "So you defeated this enemy of the Jedi."

You: "Actually I saved him/her. You'll want to tend to this person while he/she recovers."

Jedi Master/Member of Jedi Council: "You did? I didn't think that was even possible!"

I'll admit that the JC is my favorite class, so I'm probably biased, but I think the argument still holds.

People say that the SI isn't as powerful as the others because their power is boosted by the force ghosts so it's not their OWN power. But the thing is, they couldn't even do that if they didn't have a unique and rare force ability to begin with. One that is powerful enough that it provides functional immortality without any body surfing or planet killing. Other classes draw on ambient force energy, but the SI can actually draw upon and summon SENTIENT and coherent force energy, and add that energy to their own, and get more powerful every time.

I haven't finished the SI class quests yet, so I don't know...

Definitely Sith Warrior for Empire

Jedi Knight for the Republic